Table Saw Recommendations

SonOfMI

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Joined
Sep 14, 2017
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I need some table saw recommendations to fit my current situation.  My main mode of getting around is via wheelchair and I cannot stand at this point, so I need something where the table surface is about 30" (~760 mm) off the floor.  I'm thinking one of those job site table saws.  I can build a short cabinet for it to sit on which will elevate it enough but not too much.  I can lock my chair then push material through it.  I expect to be able to build some sleds and jigs to do crosscuts and some joinery.  I'm currently leaning towards either the Bosch 4100 or the DeWalt 7491.  Both saws have a nice right side rip capacity of 25 or more inches and can spin an 8" dado stack up to 13/16" thick.  Both of these things are the two biggest abilities the saw I purchase must have other than the table height.

I'm open to other suggestions as well as ideas, but to avoid dealing with BS:

1. Prior to being in the wheelchair I did construction work, built furniture, and made little craftsy things for almost 30 years.

2. I'll have assistance moving sheet goods around and have infeed/outfeed support rollers. 

3. I don't think using my TS55 for wide/long cuts will work at all as my hands are occupied with the saw and won't be able to push my chair. 

4. I have a Grizzly 690, but it will be unused for the time being as it's down in my basement where I built my shop.  At this time I'm not going to spend the money to modify my house to get me in my chair down there and I'm not bring it up to my garage.

5. I've spent the last 6 months fine tuning my hand skills.  I really do not want to go full on neanderthal. 
 
[member=66003]SonOfMI[/member]  - I salute you for refusing to let a wheelchair transportation mode limit you - and for reaching out to the FOG community.
Aside from responses which may turn up in this thread I wonder if you have reached out to other sources of information on this topic. I have flagged this post so I can pass along to you relevant information which I may come across.

Go get'em and show the rest how it's done!

Hans
 
I’m not sure if your budget will allow for a sliding table saw, but the moderator of the Felder Owners Group uses one from a wheelchair.
 
I just purchase a Sawstop for safety reasons (please no debates on this).  While researching the Jobsite saw seems to get very good reviews and worth taking a look.    It meets your requirements for dado and rip capacity.

Best of luck
 
I'd second SawStop as a choice.

But, I'd suggest thinking through the safety aspects of using a table saw, even a SawStop.

Kick backs are the main safety exposure in a table saw. I stand off to the side of the wood being cut so a kick back will whiz by me rather than hit me. I also often use two push sticks. One to push the wood through the cut and one to hold the leading edge of the wood down so it doesn't climb up the blade and get ugly. If something looks like it is getting ugly. I hit the paddle switch with my knee and jump off to the side of the saw. None of these actions appears consistent with being in a locked down wheel chair.

I also use the Jessum guides on my saw and my router table. They are great safety items.
 
I'm trying to picture how I would do this sitting in a chair and it does make me a little uncomfortable.  Mostly it's because you're using your body weight to push down and into the fence at the same time while feeding the material into the blade.  If you have good upper body strength, you can certainly do it, but it is a bit more difficult.  Maybe featherboards would help.  And you need a little more flexibility to lean across the table as you finish the cut.  Both of those speak to how out of shape I am, so maybe it's less of a problem for you. 

Anyway, my first thought, having the Sawstop safety tech might be valuable here in case things go sideways.  But obviously that's a huge expense and it seems like this may be a short term improvisation until you're able to get down to the shop, so maybe it's not worth it.  Then between the Dewalt and Bosch my preference would be the Dewalt because I believe it also has above table dust collection (and I've used their rack and pinion fence before and loved it).

My second thought is how about adding a mini power feeder?  I recall an email from Infinity Tools or MCLS recently where they added one to their lineup.  That might make things easier for you, once your sort out how you'll mount it safely to a jobsite saw.  And it's not nearly as expensive as jumping into the Sawstop while still providing you with a good margin of safety operating the saw from the chair.
 
maybe in place of a portable job site saw get a CI top contractors saw or a hybrid and modify the base to lower the table. Contractor saws have had their legs removed and been mounted on mobile carts. You could adjust the cart plans to lower the saw to a suitable height for your needs.

Then get a stock feeder and mount it to the saw to do the work of pushing the workpiece through the blade for you while you are safely off to the side ready to hit the kill switch if necessary.
 
A SawStop jobsite saw plus Jessum Clear-Cut table saw guides would be a good way to start, imo. 

However, the clear-cut guides would have to be adapted to fit the jobsite saw's peculiar fence.
 
OP, So much of my work on my SawStop and past saws has been, essentially, Above table height where I can see the saw cutting and applying the correct pressure to the wood and push sticks.

I was thinking about building a ramped platform next to the saw that would raise your wheel chair rather than try to lower the saw.
 
friends - anyone have any experience with Minnesota made Safety Speed vertical panel saw!
www.safetyspeed.com  (800) 772-2327

I have seen Cabinet Makers shops in Germany recently who use a saw of that style for precision work but did not take the time to see  what brand they were.

Might be worth a try to get in touch with Safety Speedthem and explain the requirement.

No kick-back - among other advantages, provided there is a precision version available.

Hans
 
tallgrass said:
what are you planning on making?
The answer to this question will make a world of difference as to what type of table saw (or if a table saw is the proper machine to get).
 
I redid a friend's workshop who became wheelchair bound. He makes humidors and jewelry chests. So I changed the working orientation of many of his tools and so forth. Also he got one of those chairs that allows for both sitting and semi standing. Oddly this is the same question most of us should be asking when we build shops. There is more of a challenge in this case. However this individual seems like he is up to the challenge. Which is the most important aspect in my mind.
 
Good points. More stuff should be accessible. As simply making things becomes easier we could spice it up by making things easier for more people to use.

In the early days of FOG we had a member who made elaborate segmented turnings and fantastic humidors. Can’t remember his name and the pictures from back then have evaporated.
 
Thank you to everyone who has replied.  Most have been a helpful contribution, which is why I came here to start with.  This Festool message board cuts through a lot of the crap I’m used to seeing on other boards plus I feel most here are pretty smart.

Some additional information on myself.  I’m 42, live in Atlanta, and have really good upper body and core strength.  Push ups, pull ups, and different kinds of sit ups are part of my 3 times a day workouts. I wasn’t in this good of shape before I got sick. My upper body is close to 100%, ie - I have full control of my hands, but I can't lift up a 4'x8' sheet of plywood like I could before.  At this point I can easily scoot to the front of my chair and sit up straight without any kind of assistance.  I can also lean over to tie my shoes - also without any kind of assistance. One of you guys is right, this might not be a permanent condition.  In the parallel bars I’m now able to stand and walk 20’.  My medical team can't agree on where I will max out, but I'm not stopping where I'm at.

As for where else I've sought help - I’ve talked with some of the stores around here Rockler, Woodcraft, and Peachtree Woodworking.  I didn’t get any useful ideas out of those interactions.  I haven’t talked with the guys at Highland though and that’s on my list, just have to make the time.  I have talked with some other guys who do woodworking and are wheelchair bound.  They weren’t much help because they’ve abandoned a good portion and just do craftsy stuff on scroll saws and/or turning.  I don’t think I’ll be cruising ATL, doing on site measurements, and building custom closets - for the time being - but I can work on a good chunk of my honey do list and maybe pick up a few contracts.  I've really neglected the honey do list the past few years, so it's time to catch up while I'm making progress physically.  Nothing against people who do craftsy stuff.  I've made a number of band saw boxes and jewelry display cases and will make a few of those for gifts.  The biggest number of things on my honey do list involve cabinetry and storage around the house.  I didn't state this specifically, but I have no plans to really change what I make.  It might be on a smaller scale - a window seat and accompanying base cabinet instead of a window seat, base cabinet, the trim, and a wall of built ins to go along with it. 

I need to keep space in mind.  I’m limited to half of a two car garage, so with space needed for other tools/storage/whatever a sliding saw is out of the question.  A platform that raises me in my chair up could be in play, but isn't all that practical.  I want to avoid it if possible in this situation.  Those platforms take up space if they are permanent and even if it’s not permanently on the floor it will take up space to store and will be something I’d have to move around. It's zero fun to move big things around in my chair.  I still need space for other things such as my jointer, planer, router table, bench, MF Tables, hand tool storage, and material storage. 

I also have a 14" Craftsman bandsaw I'm having my son pull up from my shop this weekend.  It has a max height of 6.5" I think.  I've used that before to make the little craftsy things, but I've picked up some thicker blades with the idea to use it for ripping when I'm not comfortable doing so on the table saw.  I would commonly use my grizzly band saw with a 3/4" blade for rips before, but I'm not asking  him to pull that thing up to the garage.

Safety and technique are very important, now as they were before.  I have a bunch of featherboards, push sticks, and guides from before so I’m set there.  I'm well versed on how/when to use them and consistently used them before so they’re already incorporated into my workflow. I didn’t think of the feed rollers so that’s a great idea - a really great idea actually.  As with a jointer machine, proper technique on the table saw isn’t to use your muscles or body weight to force material down or through.  Fighting material like that is a large commitment.  Such a large commitment removes your ability to be flexible and to respond in much of a positive manner when stuff hits the fan, plus the material can be distorted causing the final results to be off.  Finessing things will get you better results while leaving you in better position to deal with the same stuff when it hits the same fan.

I used above the table dust collection on my Grizzly table saw when I was ripping material or cutting sheet goods on it.  The other things I use a table saw for are sleds of different varieties.  In all these situations I was only on top of the saw for calibration, not for actual execution.  I've done some testing and with being able to scoot forward to the edge of my chair and sit up straight, leaning forward when I have to, as long as the stand I build puts the table height not much above my waist I'll be good.  That's how I derived the measurement for height in my original post.

The SawStop is a possibility, but let me talk you through my thinking.  Their jobsite saw is already sitting over a grand though.  A few hundred more I'm at the contractor saw.  Like their jobsite saw, the contractor saw has a base stand I don't have to use.  I just build my own custom stand a little shorter for the taller contractor saw.  Would I be satisfied with a table top that's all cattywampus like repeatedly found on the contractor saw?  Probably not, so skip the aluminum presssed table attachments and get the cast iron wings for just $300 more.  While I'm at it, might as well as get that awesome T-Glide fence.  That's another couple of hundred bucks which brings the price to $2300.  I'm not sure about that, but it would work easier than their or any other jobsite saw.  I think I saw that Bosch refurbed for $350.  Big price difference there.  Even only a grand more for just the SawStop jobsite saw is a big price difference.  I'm not sure how well that sits with me.  I think the insurance you get from the flesh sensing tech on the sawstops can't have a price tag on it.  So is their jobsite saw that much better than the Bosch or DeWalt I mentioned?

Something else to take into consideration for my situation.  I didn't call this out specifically to start with, but it's really important.  It is much more difficult for me now to lean over and get under/up/into any tool to adjust it/fix it/set it up.  My wife and son are willing to help unbox things, help me put this/that on a stand then bolt it down, help lift a sheet onto a platform, but it's bogue to ask them to help assemble a sliding table saw...or to have them learn how to calibrate a table top to the saw blade.  The more accurate something is out of the box, the better off I am.  That's a huge premium to me at this point.  If I have to monkey around tweaking a rip fence or making the blade parallel with the miter slots, I'll give it some time, but not much before I have my son help box it back up and my wife drive me back to the store to return it. 
 
When I bought my SawStop Industrial, I included setup and adjustment. It was well worth the minimal extra cost. I did the same for an 8” jointer, large bandsaw, and large planer. I am well able to do the assembly and adjustment, but physically moving the big pieces into the shop is beyond my abilities. Also, the delivery team has assembled many SawStop saws and knows all the tricks.

I am a big proponent of SawStop. I was once an engineer and I see my SawStop as an exceptionally well designed and built machine.
 
I have a Sawstop PCS. Based on my experience with it I would consider Sawstop a premium offering in the Table Saw world. That entails a lot more than just their skin sensing tech. I set mine up myself and very very little tweaking was required. It is a well built saw with top quality fit and finish. I can’t speak to the out of the box fit and finish of the Dewalt and the Bosch but considering the price point and the fact that they are job site saws I can’t imagine that their out of the box accuracy compares with any of the Sawstop offerings, especially the Contractors saw with the T glide fence. Unfortunately, even if I am correct I don’t know how you could quantify that difference since, A. You would not know until you got it and B. As you said, it is a big price difference so it’s a tough one.

Again, I can’t speak to the Dewalt or the Bosch but I do know that the resale ease and price should be quite good on the Sawstop if you are able to get back into the basement as planned. OR, if you buy the Sawstop contractors and you are able to get back down in the basement you might want to sell the Grizzly and keep the Sawstop😊.

Also, one more thing, I have never used a power feeder but I do own Jessem’s TS guides and they are really great. I can see how they would be awesome in your situation. Used in combination with a guard with anti kickback pauls,  they would completely eliminate the issue of a board wanting (or being able) to raise up. This would make the process of pushing a board through the cut SO much easier as no forward downward pressure would need to be applied by the user. I literally push narrow rips through with a 1/2” x 1/2” long stick that is completely flat on the table. All of the downward force is applied by the saw’s guard and the Jessem TS guides. 
 
Coming a bit late to this thread: you ruled out the track saw, but if the work and the track are clamped I think you only need one hand for the saw.
 
I'm thinking that you might want to compare the price of standard-height tools plus the cost of reducing that height to something that works for you against just the price of standard-height tools alone plus that cost of building a raised floor/platform around those tools that would essentially raise you to a comfortable position relative to the tools, it might be revealing.  Just a thought... 
 
You could consider the saw stop contractor saw and make a custom base for the height you need.  You can also upgrade as needed - fence, wings, etc.  BTW - keep kicking ass with your walking. 
 
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