Table saw vs. band saw for the Festool owner

[jacko9]

Kodi,

While your out shopping for a Table Saw, take a look at the long bed wide Jointers.

Jack

 

[ScotF]

I would opt for a band saw -- invest in a really good one and you will have a capable saw that can rip, resaw and make curves accurately and safely.  With the right blade you can get cuts that rival a table saw.  You already have the TS saw for cross-cutting and other ripping applications.  I think a band saw will open up a world of possibilities for you.  Of course a good jointer and planer is also an option when working with solid wood.  Band saws will take up much less floor space too.

Scot

 

[Tinker]

I would opt for a band saw -- invest in a really good one and you will have a capable saw that can rip, resaw and make curves accurately and safely.  With the right blade you can get cuts that rival a table saw.  You already have the TS saw for cross-cutting and other ripping applications.  I think a band saw will open up a world of possibilities for you.  Of course a good jointer and planer is also an option when working with solid wood.  Band saws will take up much less floor space too.

Scot

I agree with all of above except the floor space.  When figuring space for any machine, I find any machine has to relate to infeed and outfeed as part of the space needed.  In that respect, a handsaw (in this thread, we are talking track saws >>> specifically Festoy ) needs only the space to place material and be able to work on/around the material while sliding the saw along the wood, whether ripping or crosscutting.  A tablesaw and bandsaw needs double the area of the wood to be ripped.  When figuring the area needed to cross cut, it depends on the size of wood as well. 

When ripping with table saw, i like to have a little extra space so i am never in direct line of any kickback.  With bandsaw, it doesn't make any difference where i stand so long as I have room to work.  The one space saving I get with the BS over Tablesaw is the table of the bandsaw is higher than any other horizontal surface in my shop.  I can set up a temporary infeed/outfeed surface over top of any horizontal surface.  With table saw, the table is so close to level with all other surfaces you need to be very careful of how you set up.  If any other tool is even 1/2" above tablesaw height, one has a whole lot of moving to do to make space.

If there is plenty of space in the shop, the above point is unimportant.  A tight space and it becomes very important.  In a space as small as I am working, I never use the BS for anything large.  Even 1/2 sheet of ply is too big.  Anything more than 4 feet in length is too long.  I use the BS mostly for ripping anything too thick for my Festoy ATF 55.  I use it a lot for squaring (with help of handplanes and power planer) small logs i pick up from landscaping jobs and/or firewood that i think might have interesting grain.  I also have done a few pattern making projects.  All of those projects i cannot (or wood knot) try on a tablesaw.  I buy mostly rough cut lumber in 1-1/2" thick and thicker and then resaw according to project at hand.  I save any leftover that is 1/4" inch or more and run thru planer when I find a use. By next season (winter), i amhoping to be set up to do some veneering.  The BS will be handy for ripping my own veneer.  Anything up to 1-3/4" i can resaw with my ATF 55(soon to be TS 55).  I have, with use of Richard Warren's rip guides, already experimented with consistantly ripping strips 1/8" x 1-1/2" x 3'.  I think the rip cuts are also smooth enough I don't need to finish plane.  I have not gotten to glue stage yet, but the cuts are very smooth.  with Bandsaw, i do end up needing to run thru planer after each cut.

Tinker

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

No doubt that a good band saw is a game changer and can take woodworking in a more capable direction. I think that one eventually ends up in just about every dedicated woodworker's shop.  That said, it seems that all of your upcoming projects can be made with the tools that you already have.  A table saw might make your near-future projects  faster/easier.  With some jig-making, a table saw can also be a terrific game changer.
  If lack of space is your reason for having to choose one or the other, then have you considered a portable table saw w/ a wheeled stand; such as the DeWalt DWE7491rs or the Bosch with gravity stand?  If finances are the issue, then have you considered something like one of these table saws and something like the Rikon 14" band saw? Or, a used BS and/or TS?  I often see great deals on craigslist, for both of these tools.

 

[suds]

Years ago I purchased a used Shopsmith with bandsaw.  I also have a real issue with space in my garage.  The SS takes up very little room and is very mobile.  The table saw portion sucks but with the Conical sander and disc sander setup are great.  Drill press and boring functions take less than 30 seconds to set up.  I've never used the Lathe function but it's also available.  I've thought of selling it many times but it takes up so little space and is so easy to move around and I use it for a number of functions.  You can find them easily on Craigslist for not much money.  I also have a couple of MFT's, TS55, Kapex plus many Festool sanders.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

I'll probably end up with both.  As I think about my remodeling projects and the big stacks of scraps that I end up with (trim, etc.), I need to cut that stuff down or the trash police will come and take away my birthday.  I used to do that a reciprocating saw over my trash can.  Not necessarily safe.  But that bandsaw...I could cut a lot of small, thick pieces to toss in the trash easily...

 

[Tinker]

If you do get a BS, be sure to get one with DC connection. 
They can really put out a lot of trash >>> the kind that covers everything in the shop.
Mine does not have DC connection; so i have a magnetic coupling that i put on the end of my CT hose.
I keep the air cleaner going as well, and leave it running for an hour after i shut down the bandsaw.

Tinker

 

[Stone Message]

If you do get a BS, be sure to get one with DC connection. 
They can really put out a lot of trash >>> the kind that covers everything in the shop.
Mine does not have DC connection; so i have a magnetic coupling that i put on the end of my CT hose.
I keep the air cleaner going as well, and leave it running for an hour after i shut down the bandsaw.

Tinker

I am fascinated by your bandsaw Tinker. I sometimes do not bother to connect my extractor to the bandsaw and it makes a little bit of dust but not much. I admit that if I am using it for more than 5 minutes then the extractor is always running. But yours sounds unusual if you need to take so much care. A bandsaw should be creating larger sized bits of sawdust and very little fine stuff.

Peter

 

[Wuffles]

Depends on the tpi Peter. Does on mine anyway.

 

[grbmds]

If you do get a BS, be sure to get one with DC connection. 
They can really put out a lot of trash >>> the kind that covers everything in the shop.
Mine does not have DC connection; so i have a magnetic coupling that i put on the end of my CT hose.
I keep the air cleaner going as well, and leave it running for an hour after i shut down the bandsaw.

Tinker

Tinker,

I'm interested in your magnetic coupling for dust collection on your band saw. My band saw dust collection doesn't work well (Rikon 14") and I think it's because the dust port is down too low on the side. I would like to add something under the table in front and your solution might give me an idea of something that would work for me.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

No doubt that a good band saw is a game changer and can take woodworking in a more capable direction. I think that one eventually ends up in just about every dedicated woodworker's shop.  That said, it seems that all of your upcoming projects can be made with the tools that you already have.  A table saw might make your near-future projects  faster/easier.  With some jig-making, a table saw can also be a terrific game changer.
  If lack of space is your reason for having to choose one or the other, then have you considered a portable table saw w/ a wheeled stand; such as the DeWalt DWE7491rs or the Bosch with gravity stand?  If finances are the issue, then have you considered something like one of these table saws and something like the Rikon 14" band saw? Or, a used BS and/or TS?  I often see great deals on craigslist, for both of these tools.

For the tablesaw at least, I can substitute one of my MFT carts and my router table for about the same space.

 

[Wuffles]

When I looked at setting up a home workshop rather than do all my work in the field so to speak, I spoke with a few other professionals about what static kit they would recommend and everyone told me I wouldn't use a bandsaw, at all.

So anyway, it took me a couple of years to realise that I am VERY glad I ignored their advice and bought a 2nd hand, decent brand solid bandsaw.

I love my bandsaw. Absolutely love it and probably only use it to within a quarter of its capabilities.

One of my favourite tools, especially now I've dusted off the old lathe I was also advised to get rid of.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

I'm getting into the "Wood Whisperer" episodes and noticing some of the stuff he's building.  I can see what the whole resaw stuff is about (door panels, veneers, etc).  I'm not quite ready for finer woodworking yet.  Right now I'm doing finish work in my house on paint grade stuff.

One thing that has me hesitant to pull the trigger on the bandsaw is the rotation/integration of tools in my small work area.  I think I can "absorb" a tablesaw, since it will take up a bit more space than router table, yet not eliminate my ability to use a router table.

I can't do that on a bandsaw.  But I'll have to figure something out, because I still want one.  I don't think the timing is right for it yet.

 

[grbmds]

I'm getting into the "Wood Whisperer" episodes and noticing some of the stuff he's building.  I can see what the whole resaw stuff is about (door panels, veneers, etc).  I'm not quite ready for finer woodworking yet.  Right now I'm doing finish work in my house on paint grade stuff.

One thing that has me hesitant to pull the trigger on the bandsaw is the rotation/integration of tools in my small work area.  I think I can "absorb" a tablesaw, since it will take up a bit more space than router table, yet not eliminate my ability to use a router table.

I can't do that on a bandsaw.  But I'll have to figure something out, because I still want one.  I don't think the timing is right for it yet.

For what you seem to be doing, a table saw might be more useful. Obviously the best on the market are cabinet saws like Sawstop, Powermatic, and a number of others. However, for a saw that you might use less often and not need up and functioning all the time, a good starting point might be the Bosch 4100. (I think someone already mentioned this.) I have not used it but it gets great reviews and will fold up and store out of the way if there are periods of time you don't use it. The reviews indicate a high degree of accuracy (although I doubt it's as accurate as a Sawstop might be). Obviously it doesn't have the blade safety the Sawstop does but it has a riving knife and what appears to be a fairly good blade guard. The reviews don't talk about dust collection.

 

[tiralie]

...a good starting point might be the Bosch 4100. (I think someone already mentioned this.)  The reviews don't talk about dust collection.

I have the Bosch 4100 and use it a lot. It works well. I think the fence is it's weakest point for cabinet work, but if you take care of it and put a decent blade on it, it will give you some good cuts.
I put my Bosch in a Rousseau stand and added a aftermarket fence and expanded the top. It's a bit of a "franken-porta-saw". Really I wanted a Festool table saw.
Dust collection is bad to horrible. I have a zero clearance insert with a vacuum attached and it still spews dust all over the place.
I got it with the rolling stand but I really didn't like the stand, it seems a bit too wobbly.
Since I need a portable table saw, I would definitely do it again. But if I was to buy a good entry level saw I would look for one with casters a cast iron trunnion like the Saw Stop contractor or even the Ridgid 4512. The Ridgid is a great deal, never used one but it costs less than the Bosch, at least here in Canada.
Tim

 

[Tinker]

If you do get a BS, be sure to get one with DC connection. 
They can really put out a lot of trash >>> the kind that covers everything in the shop.
Mine does not have DC connection; so i have a magnetic coupling that i put on the end of my CT hose.
I keep the air cleaner going as well, and leave it running for an hour after i shut down the bandsaw.

Tinker

I am fascinated by your bandsaw Tinker. I sometimes do not bother to connect my extractor to the bandsaw and it makes a little bit of dust but not much. I admit that if I am using it for more than 5 minutes then the extractor is always running. But yours sounds unusual if you need to take so much care. A bandsaw should be creating larger sized bits of sawdust and very little fine stuff.

Peter

Peter, I will check my blade later, but for now, I think it is 3TPI.  It is 1/2".
I make no chips/shavings, just dust.

I just noticed a reponse below about the dust collection fitting.  I will check into that with part number later this morning.  I am sure i got it from either Rockler or Woodcraft.  It has a square opening with magnet on one flat side.  The outflow end is round and with an auxiliary fitting, it fits to my Festoy AS 27mm hose.  I attach to underside of my table as close to the blade as possible.  It work pretty good.  I think if i hooked it up to my larger hose, it might work better.  It is just that I have extra 27mm hoses but only one 32mm. 
Tinker

 

[Stone Message]

Peter, I will check my blade later, but for now, I think it is 3TPI.  It is 1/2".
I make no chips/shavings, just dust.

I just noticed a reponse below about the dust collection fitting.  I will check into that with part number later this morning.  I am sure i got it from either Rockler or Woodcraft.  It has a square opening with magnet on one flat side.  The outflow end is round and with an auxiliary fitting, it fits to my Festoy AS 27mm hose.  I attach to underside of my table as close to the blade as possible.  It work pretty good.  I think if i hooked it up to my larger hose, it might work better.  It is just that I have extra 27mm hoses but only one 32mm. 
Tinker

For a bandsaw you need high volume low pressure through a 4 inch (or larger) hose. The Festool CT can do a passable job if it has a nozzle directly under the work piece near the blade but a HVLP unit is better.

Peter

 

[Wuffles]

Hi Peter, I don't enjoy the benefits of proper workshop DE, being as how it's not a proper workshop yet as you can still see the floor. But, what do you think of my MacGuyver effort into the port of my Record band saw? Seems to do the job and you definitely know when it's not connected/switched on.

[attachthumb=#]

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Peter, I don't enjoy the benefits of proper workshop DE, being as how it's not a proper workshop yet as you can still see the floor. But, what do you think of my MacGuyver effort into the port of my Record band saw? Seems to do the job and you definitely know when it's not connected/switched on.

[attachthumb=#]

Nice job - and you can always use the bits when you put your next bathroom in !

Peter

 

[Tinker]

Peter, I will check my blade later, but for now, I think it is 3TPI.  It is 1/2".
I make no chips/shavings, just dust.

I just noticed a reponse below about the dust collection fitting.  I will check into that with part number later this morning.  I am sure i got it from either Rockler or Woodcraft.  It has a square opening with magnet on one flat side.  The outflow end is round and with an auxiliary fitting, it fits to my Festoy AS 27mm hose.  I attach to underside of my table as close to the blade as possible.  It work pretty good.  I think if i hooked it up to my larger hose, it might work better.  It is just that I have extra 27mm hoses but only one 32mm. 
Tinker

For a bandsaw you need high volume low pressure through a 4 inch (or larger) hose. The Festool CT can do a passable job if it has a nozzle directly under the work piece near the blade but a HVLP unit is better.

Peter

I know about using 4" DC hose and high voluum.  I do have a DC with four inch hose connected to my planer. It is a big hastle to switch the hose around.  I do not have any ports for DC on my BS.  I catch what I can with the CT 22 (my CT 33 is in more central location for working with my Festoys. I manage to capture a lot of the dust, but much fragmented debris ends up in bottom of the BS housing and on the floor.  I don't bother with DC when making only the occasional cut, but I do run the air cleaner ceiling vac.  Even the slightest bit of fine dust will settle everywhere if I don't use it.  In another couple of weeks, I will be working outside (my day job), it will be warm enough that the furnace (hot air systm) will not be running and I will let the dust (even if i have to run BS on purpose) settle on all of my cast iron.  I have found that to be a great eliminator of rust buildup.  That dust will remain until i go back to the shop in the late fall. Since making that discovery, i have had almost no rust problem.
Tinker