Temp gun vs Thermal Imager which one? Plus a little on wall scanners.

[semenza]

Looking at a temp gun or thermal imager for general use. Not any type of specific task. Which is more useful for general stuff. If you were choosing just one (don't factor the cost difference ).  Not interested in the cellphone type.

Can the camera / imager do everything the gun does?  Is one better at some things than the other?

EX- Klein TI250  , Klein IR10

Seth

 

[rhoyer]

I have used a couple of flir thermal imagers (one cell phone operated and one stand alone unit) and they’re great for exploring broad areas to find things like leaks or insulation issues. You can get fairly accurate pinpoint temperature measurements with them but a temp gun is likely more accurate for that task. On the whole I think the imagers are significantly more versatile. You can walk around a house and just find all sorts of issues. Duct disconnected in a wall? You’ll see a hot or cold spot. Window frame poorly sealed? Insulation missing in a wall or ceiling area? Some random electrical thing burning up inside a wall? Unless you know exactly where an area of interest is you’ll probably never shoot it with a temperature gun. You walk around any house for 10 minutes with an imager and you’ll find 5 things that’ll need fixing.

I know you said you’re not interested in the cell phone options but you save a lot of money letting your phone be a much better computer than what’s in literally any unit you can buy. If you’ve got the money, though, might as well spend it.

Reed

 

[six-point socket II]

Generally speaking, the temp gun will give you a pinpoint temperature reading whereas the thermal imager will give you a temperature reading for every pixel it displays. This makes assessing/capturing a situation as a whole much easier.

A lot of the simple temp guns have a fixed emissivity grade, meaning that they are most accurate when whatever you aim for/ want to measure fits that emissivity grade. If not, your readings are going to be off, they don't have to be dramatically off, but will still be off.

Most thermal imagers can be set to specific emissivity grades you need for the task at hand, that requires you to familiarize yourself with typical emissivity grades for different surfaces/ applications. And when/if necessary to come up with corrective measures. Like a pitch dark black sticker, for example.

The ones I know come with thick manuals and to make the most of a thermal imager, it's reading time first.

Here's a pretty comprehensive list of collected emissivity grades/levels in english:
https://www.transmetra.ch/images/tr.../pyrometrie-thermografie/emissivity_table.pdf

Only one, definitely the imager.

Reality, the classic temp gun sees far more use, since it is less fuss to use and more often than not, I don't need a full image but rather a spot/ small area. And if I would get out the imager when checking the temperature of my salt blocks on the BBQ, my better half would probably eye-roll and vanish back inside the house ...

However, looking at a breaker panel, radiant (floor) heating, insulation, water leaks, (...) the thermal imager is king.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Cheese]

Definitely a thermal imager guy...I own both and the thermal imager documents the condition while the gun only records the condition.

Like Reed suggested, don't dismiss the capabilities of a phone based imager, they are a great bang for your buck despite the recent issues. [sad]

 

[semenza]

As far as the phone imagers go ..............  it is not the capabilities or the price. The prices of the few that I have looked at (phone vs whole unit) don't seems that much different at least within the same brand. I just prefer a dedicated "tool".

Seth

 

[afish]

I agree with previous comments, I already own a temp gun and it is handy to have and if you are trying to use it to find energy deficiencies in your home. It can and will help but as others say its more of a pinpoint vs broad picture.  I have a few energy deficiencies I need to address at my home as well especially now that electricity is much more expensive.  For example I have a lot of south facing glass probably about 75% of total area, with no shade and knew it was a big issue but the temp gun will give you a better picture of just how bad a situation is. In my case the south glass was reading 126° while my shaded windows were in the 79-80 range. As I said I knew it was an issue but when you see the discrepancy in black and white it can be eye opening. So I think the best solution is to add a large continuous awning to shade all that glass. I also had my attic spray foamed a few years ago and while it made a huge difference I have some suspicions that it is not as air tight as it could or should be. So, I want to scan my attic with a thermal camera to see if there are any hot spots or spots along the eaves that might be leaking air,  I have very little access to my attic so a temp gun would never give me the full picture as the thermal camera.  A thermal camera will quickly identify issues in a situation like this.  I am most likely looking at the HIT-19 and I also prefer a stand alone tool to phone apparatus.  Its on my short list as soon as I finish up some other projects.         

 

[semenza]

I agree with previous comments, I already own a temp gun and it is handy to have and if you are trying to use it to find energy deficiencies in your home. It can and will help but as others say its more of a pinpoint vs broad picture.  I have a few energy deficiencies I need to address at my home as well especially now that electricity is much more expensive.  For example I have a lot of south facing glass probably about 75% of total area, with no shade and knew it was a big issue but the temp gun will give you a better picture of just how bad a situation is. In my case the south glass was reading 126° while my shaded windows were in the 79-80 range. As I said I knew it was an issue but when you see the discrepancy in black and white it can be eye opening. So I think the best solution is to add a large continuous awning to shade all that glass. I also had my attic spray foamed a few years ago and while it made a huge difference I have some suspicions that it is not as air tight as it could or should be. So, I want to scan my attic with a thermal camera to see if there are any hot spots or spots along the eaves that might be leaking air,  I have very little access to my attic so a temp gun would never give me the full picture as the thermal camera.  A thermal camera will quickly identify issues in a situation like this.  I am most likely looking at the HIT-19 and I also prefer a stand alone tool to phone apparatus.  Its on my short list as soon as I finish up some other projects.       

What brand is this?  Link?

Seth

 

[afish]

Sorry, dyslexia kicked in HTI not HIT
LINK

 

[semenza]

Sorry, dyslexia kicked in HTI not HIT

  Thanks.  If I go with thermal imager it will be in the under $300 price range. The Klein seems nice and is only a bit more than Kleins cell phone version. Are there others worth considering that are under $300?

Seth

 

[Michael Kellough]

This one is interesting too.

Oops, at double your price range…

 

[Cheese]

The thing I liked about the phone mount imager is that it's small and I just keep it in my pocket, nothing extra to carry around really, it's about 2.5" x 1" x .5" These photos are from the Gen one version which came out in 2014. The resolution of the new imagers is quite a bit better.

HVAC leaks

[attachimg=1]

AC duct in-wall

[attachimg=2]

Surface temperature of a black car on a sunny 85º day

[attachimg=3]

 

[afish]

Sorry, dyslexia kicked in HTI not HIT

  Thanks.  If I go with thermal imager it will be in the under $300 price range. The Klein seems nice and is only a bit more than Kleins cell phone version. Are there others worth considering that are under $300?

Seth

10-4 if you get the Klein report back how you like it, Im not excited about spending 600 for one.

 

[semenza]

So another question.....................

              How well ( if at all ) does a thermal imager see into a wall? Probably a pipe with hot water will show? How about other things? Electric cable?

Seth

 

[PaulMarcel]

How well ( if at all ) does a thermal imager see into a wall? Probably a pipe with hot water will show? How about other things? Electric cable?

Seth

Oh I love my Flir (iPhone model). Not the most expensive and it's an older model, but I use it regularly to see into walls. Hot water would be easy. I don't think you'll see electric cables, but I honestly haven't tried to find any.

In these samples, you can see the studs in my dining room. The purple blobs on the ceiling shows where water got into a damaged soffit. Can't see it from the inside anymore without the imager so I'm leaving it until I replace the roof.

The second photo is of a second-floor room's outside wall. You can see the horizontal bracing clearly.

One thing I like about the phone-based Flir is that it takes a thermal image as well as a regular photo simultaneously. When you review photos, you can use an opacity slider to locate anomalies better.

This is the only imager I have any experience with so maybe all the others do the same  [tongue]

 

[festal]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member]  [member=3513]PaulMarcel[/member] what model of the flir are you using with iphones?  looking to get one and can't decide which one to go with

 

[six-point socket II]

Seth,

if you have an acute thermal issue with any electrical cables/wires/stuff the thermal imager will most likely make it visible immediately.

If you just want to follow/find a circuit/line, hook up a vac, iron, fan heater, (...), to the corresponding outlet, let it run for a bit. The minimal rise in temperature of the outlet and circuit feeding it will most likely make it visible to the thermal imager.

I have to add, in case someone else later on reads this and tries it: you only do this when you have absolutely no reason to believe the circuit/line is compromised in any way. This is to find/isolate an intact & trustworthy circuit/line only!

I've had good results with this technique.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Sparktrician]

Seth,

if you have an acute thermal issue with any electrical cables/wires/stuff the thermal imager will most likely make it visible immediately.

If you just want to follow/find a circuit/line, hook up a vac, iron, fan heater, (...), to the corresponding outlet, let it run for a bit. The minimal rise in temperature of the outlet and circuit feeding it will most likely make it visible to the thermal imager.

I have to add, in case someone else later on reads this and tries it: you only do this when you have absolutely no reason to believe the circuit/line is compromised in any way. This is to find/isolate an intact & trustworthy circuit/line only!

I've had good results with this technique.

Kind regards,
Oliver

I would use this method ONLY in conjunction with a clamp-on ammeter placed at the breaker panel to assure that current on the circuit in use does not exceed the capabilities of the wiring and/or breaker.  [unsure]

 

[semenza]

Are all of these imagers FLIR or are there different types of thermal imagers? I see some using "FLIR" and some not, in descriptions.

Seth

 

[semenza]

Seth,

if you have an acute thermal issue with any electrical cables/wires/stuff the thermal imager will most likely make it visible immediately.

If you just want to follow/find a circuit/line, hook up a vac, iron, fan heater, (...), to the corresponding outlet, let it run for a bit. The minimal rise in temperature of the outlet and circuit feeding it will most likely make it visible to the thermal imager.

I have to add, in case someone else later on reads this and tries it: you only do this when you have absolutely no reason to believe the circuit/line is compromised in any way. This is to find/isolate an intact & trustworthy circuit/line only!

I've had good results with this technique.

Kind regards,
Oliver

I would use this method ONLY in conjunction with a clamp-on ammeter placed at the breaker panel to assure that current on the circuit in use does not exceed the capabilities of the wiring and/or breaker.  [unsure]

I would not be using this idea to find bad wiring. It would be to find good wiring so as to avoid hitting it during an install.  I don't see why it wouldn't be safe to plug something in and run it just as normal everyday.

I realize there are wall scanners too. Just want to know how far the imager capabilities go.

Seth

 

[Cheese]

Seth,

If you just want to follow/find a circuit/line, hook up a vac, iron, fan heater, (...), to the corresponding outlet, let it run for a bit. The minimal rise in temperature of the outlet and circuit feeding it will most likely make it visible to the thermal imager.

I've had good results with this technique.

Ya I agree with Oliver, these Flir units seem pretty sensitive to small temperature differences so I'd just load the line you want to trace with a heat gun or soldering iron and it'll probably become pretty evident. I'd also take a before and after photo of the area in question because that may be easier to isolate exactly where the wiring travels.

[member=71889]festal[/member] I've used the original Gen one with an iPhone 5, 6 & 10, then the Flir battery went south.  [sad]  I'm now looking at purchasing either one of these but I can't make up my mind. It'll be coupled to a 14 Pro.

The Flir One Pro is nice because of its size, it easily fits in a shirt or jeans pocket. The Flir One Pro works with iPhone 14 thru iPhone 7.https://www.flir.com/products/flir-...rtical=condition monitoring&segment=solutions

The Flir One Edge Pro is nice because it operates attached to or detached from the phone...think remote applications like holding it over something or around a tight corner. Because this is detachable, it communicates with BlueTooth and it can be used with either iOS or Androidhttps://www.flir.com/products/flir-one-edge-pro/?vertical=condition monitoring&segment=solutions