Temp gun vs Thermal Imager which one? Plus a little on wall scanners.

[Michael Kellough]

If the wall will be covered with cabinets another option is to drill a hole and insert a borescope and have a look around inside the cavity.

 

[Michael Kellough]

The Flir One Edge Pro will not be orphaned when future iPhones have USB-C ports rather than Lightning.

 

[MikeGE]

I would not be using this idea to find bad wiring. It would be to find good wiring so as to avoid hitting it during an install.  I don't see why it wouldn't be safe to plug something in and run it just as normal everyday.
Seth

I use the Bosch D-tect 150 to identify the location of wiring, plumbing, and rebar in my concrete walls.  I tried the inexpensive stud finders, but they all failed miserably.

The D-tect 150 has been replaced with the D-Tect 200, but the changes are not worth upgrading for me.  The D-tect 150 and 200 use microwave technology (RADAR) to penetrate walls and alert when live conductors are detected, as well as a visual indication of the depth in wall.

 

[Cheese]

Are all of these imagers FLIR or are there different types? I see some using "FLIR" and some not, in descriptions.

Seth

They are all Flir images, note the first photo I posted "HVAC leaks", in the upper LH corner you can just barely see the Flir logo.

One more thing to dig into is how large does the final image size become on the Klein?  With the original Flir Gen One, the resolution was around 5000 pixels (80 x 60) and that would be enlarged to a standard VGA 640 x 480 image.
The Klein has 10,000 pixel resolution while the new Flirs have 19,200 pixel resolution.

 

[Sparktrician]

The D-tect 150 has been replaced with the D-Tect 200, but the changes are not worth upgrading for me.  The D-tect 150 and 200 use microwave technology (RADAR) to penetrate walls and alert when live conductors are detected, as well as a visual indication of the depth in wall.

The D-TECT 200 seems to not be available in NA, and if it was, the price would be upwards of $750, near as I can tell.  [eek]

 

[six-point socket II]

Highly sophisticated & reliable product for when rebar (or other stuff) absolutely must not be cut. Comparable to Hilti's PS 85 and the likes.

It allows you to understand depth, shape & material including even plastic piping & water filled plastic piping.

Miles ahead of any regular stud finder or even less sophisticated/reliable alternatives like the Bosch D-tect 120 ->https://www.bosch-professional.com/gb/en/products/d-tect-120-wallscanner-0601081370

Paid by for itself when it prevented a single hit. For example, I used a less sophisticated tool and it gave me the green light. Went ahead and drilled, hit an old-school lead-sheathed low-/ no-voltage telecommunication line. (Shouldn't have been there, not the slightest indication that it could be there.) But nothing special really - not even the repair. Repair costs still exceeded a little over 1000,-. Insurance covered it, but still. GMS-120 didn't find it. Would have most likely found it with the D-tect 120, with the "older" 150 or now the 200 for sure.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[tsmi243]

Are all of these imagers FLIR or are there different types of thermal imagers? I see some using "FLIR" and some not, in descriptions.

Seth

Some guys call any thermal imager a "FLIR".  Like saying Channellocks or Skilsaw.  I don't think the core technology differs between brands, just the refresh rate, resolution, etc.

The actual sensor in some brands could be made by FLIR, that may be what you're seeing in the product listing. 

 

[semenza]

Are all of these imagers FLIR or are there different types of thermal imagers? I see some using "FLIR" and some not, in descriptions.

Seth

Some guys call any thermal imager a "FLIR".  Like saying Channellocks or Skilsaw.  I don't think the core technology differs between brands, just the refresh rate, resolution, etc.

The actual sensor in some brands could be made by FLIR, that may be what you're seeing in the product listing.

Aah, it's brand name. Got it now.

Seth

 

[semenza]

The D-tect 150 has been replaced with the D-Tect 200, but the changes are not worth upgrading for me.  The D-tect 150 and 200 use microwave technology (RADAR) to penetrate walls and alert when live conductors are detected, as well as a visual indication of the depth in wall.

The D-TECT 200 seems to not be available in NA, and if it was, the price would be upwards of $750, near as I can tell.  [eek]

The  D-TECT 200 is on Amazon for about $1,100.000 USD I can't find any good reviews that really show what it will see. Even earlier version reviews are sparse and most show them working on perfect fake walls. 

In any case seems that for looking into a wall a scanner will be much more effective than thermal imager?

I realize they are different tools but I am just thinking of the extended use of the thermal imager.

Seth

 

[six-point socket II]

It's too sophisticated for the average youtuber/influencer, they lack the experience with this type of tool to really convey what it will do/ not do. It's not a "magic trick" that suddenly allows the user to really look inside the wall, you need to interpret what the readings mean/ tell you, besides the over obvious warning when you're over a life circuit with it.

Filming actual use of such a tool, to make the audience really understand the product's capabilities, would require screen in screen times 3 and voice over. You need to see the display, movement on the wall and at best also the wall in "open state" with pipes/wire/rebar to see.

No clicks because it would be boring as hell to the general audience, no sparks, no dust, no ranking, no failing tools, (...).

It would resemble professional training (that can be had from various manufacturers/distributors) and those youtuber/influencer don't have the audience for it nor the experience with the actual tool or use of it.

And the fun only starts with the Bosch.

Take a look at the 15k$ Leica Geosystems C-Thrue for example:
https://leica-geosystems.com/products/detection-systems/concrete-scanner-c-thrue
https://shop.leica-geosystems.com/buy/utility-detection/ids-c-thrue-concrete-scanner

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[MikeGE]

To add onto what Oliver wrote, unless you are able to see one of the D-tect sensors in operation, it is difficult to explain or demonstrate in 90-second video.  The closest analogy I can think of is a SONAR fish finder used by fishermen on a boat.  The display will show a graphic return of something at a distance, except instead of water of varying temperatures, the medium is concrete, drywall, or any of the pre-programmed settings in the sensor, and the distances are in millimeters, not feet.

I've been using my D-tect 150 for over 11 years and trust it when the sensor detects rebar, water pipe, or electrical cables.  Prior to using it, my success rate with missing rebar was about 75-percent.  Now that I use it for every project that requires drilling into the wall or ceiling slabs, my success rate is 100-percent.  If I find rebar, but it is beyond the depth that I want to drill, I can drill in confidence that I will not hit it.

When I drilled the mounting holes for my clamp rack and tool boards, I scanned the wall vertically and horizontally to identify the location of the rebar grid in the areas I wanted to put anchors.  This allowed me to adjust my drilling location as needed and put enough bolts into the wall to handle the shear load.

At one of the facilities I supported before I retired, the maintenance personnel were drilling into a concrete wall to mount eight large screen displays for a video wall.  No one on the team bothered to scan the wall before drilling the dozens of holes for the brackets.  The facility manager had considering buying a D-tect 150, but hadn't been able to justify the expense, so they were relying on luck with every hole.  On the third monitor bracket, the technician hit an undocumented high-pressure water pipe that immediately started flooding the mission floor. 

The pipe later turned out to be part of the abandoned fire suppression system that had been capped somewhere in the wall instead of being removed.  The sudden flow of water also triggered the fire alarm system, which caused everyone in the building to evacuate.  The resulting drama resembled a U-boat that had been hit while they scrambled around trying to find any valve that would shut off the high-pressure water.  The cost to repair the wall, and replace the damaged furniture, flooring, and equipment was over €30K, which was significantly less than the cost of the D-tect 150.  The facility manager now had the justification to buy a D-tect 150 for each team.

 

[PaulMarcel]

My images were from the first gen Flir for iPhone that [member=44099]Cheese[/member] linked. I had an iPhone 6 when I first got it. I don't recall the price, but it was inexpensive enough to make it worth picking up and has been invaluable (and sobering...) to learn how poorly insulated and sealed my house is.

I'm definitely interested in a newer model that would use the iPhone for additional/on-site capabilities but is detached enough to not require the phone to take scans.

Funny, too, that you guys were talking about bad electrical circuits... yesterday, one circuit in my house was going full-on Poltergeist. Another breaker went bad. The original breakers in my house are 36 years old so I guess they are due.

 

[PaulMarcel]

Well, since we were talking about "running a circuit to detect it via heat, but don't run a faulty circuit!"... my Poltergeist service panel heard and the main breaker died. I'm at a friend's house for the night or more given 200A breaker shipping estimates...

So here are some fun photos I took before "the event" and a photo of the service panel with a hot af main breaker. While the image scanner is cool to verify the breaker is hot, the blackened side was a bit of a give-away...

First up, a scan of a wall in the shop. You can see the drain from my shower running vertically. This was maybe 20 minutes after the shower:

View attachment 1

Next is a random shot into my gym. You can see the subwoofer bottom right, Sonos One top middle, and on the cabinet, the edge of a bucket of tea and the flat thing is an induction charger. Not useful for seeing into walls, but it is interesting that even some devices in standby glow:

View attachment 2

Lastly, my Poltergeist main breaker; again, not something you need a scan for but felt like a record:

View attachment 3

 

[Cheese]

...Not useful for seeing into walls, but it is interesting that even some devices in standby glow:

That 2nd photo is exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned in an earlier post that the Flir's are very sensitive to temperature changes. Any small temperature differential is usually recorded.  [smile]

When I first purchased my Flir in 2015, I did a quick test and if I remember correctly (and that was a long time ago) it would recognize a temperature differential of only 1.5º to 2º.

 

[eschumac]

I use a FLIR E4 weekly. There is a firmware hack out there to make it an E8. The internals are the same so the E4 was limited in the firmware only.

The thing can see residual footprints of someone walking a normal pace. Very sensitive.

So many off label uses for these things. Well worth the money and time to update the firmware.

 

[AofD]

FLIR stands for Foward Looking InfraRed. FLIR the company, cleverly trademarked it as a brand name when they formed. FLIR is now the Kleenex of the thermal imaging industry. If money isn't an issue, I'd get a thermal imager with at least VGA (640 x 512 pixels) resolution. Here's an image of an unsuspecting wife [smile].

 

[PaulMarcel]

FLIR stands for Foward Looking InfraRed. FLIR the company, cleverly trademarked it as a brand name when they formed. FLIR is now the Kleenex of the thermal imaging industry. If money isn't an issue, I'd get a thermal imager with at least VGA (640 x 512 pixels) resolution. Here's an image of an unsuspecting wife [smile].

Dude, she's hot  [big grin]