Terrible experience with SCM Group .. what to do?

[mbach]

Posting in a couple forums for input.

I recently received a Jointer/Planer and Bandsaw from SCM Group; Sam was the sales person.
When I unpackaged the J/P I found it in a terrible state; laying on its side with a lot of damage. I actually can’t even upright it to moveit as it weighs ~1500lbs.
SCM told me to work it out with the shipping company and has not made an attempt to replace the unit.
Sam, the sales person, told me they could be a “cheerleader” while I worked to file a claim with the shipping company and when I expressed that was not acceptable he threatened to hang up on me and said he would look at this later. Earlier when ordering Sam assured me they would take care of any shipping issues should they arise.

I have repeatedly asked SCM group that I wanted to hear they would make this right. I asked for a replacement unit and provided photos for their claim.

They repeatedly responded that I needed to work it out with the shipping company and have made no offer to make this right otherwise. I have since asked for my money back and for them to schedule pick up of the inoperable unit.. so far no response.

Giuseppe Riva the CEO was copied on emails with no immediate response.

The purchase was ~$9K.

 

[chrisrosenb]

Who hired the shipping company? If you did, it would be your responsibility to work things out with the shipping company.
If SCM hired the shipping company, it is their responsibility to solve the problem. 

 

[mjdehart]

what were the terms of sale?  where did title pass?

 

[rljatl]

You may have a problem since you accepted delivery.

I bought a Hammer jointer/planer from Felder.  When it arrived, I could see that the shipping crate did not look like it should.  Before accepting delivery, I called Felder to explain the situation.  They asked that I take pictures and send to them.  Thanks to my handy dandy cell phone, I took the pictures and sent them to Felder via text message.

After looking at the pictures, Felder said that under no circumstances should I accept delivery.  I rejected the delivery and the shipping company driver left with the machine.  The j/p was never removed from the truck.

Felder filed the claim with the shipping company.  They handled the whole thing.  I was never involved.

Later, I received a brand new j/p from Felder and have been happy ever after.

Moral of the story is to always inspect while the machine is still on the delivery company's truck and before accepting delivery.

Thought my experience might help guide you or someone else...

 

[peter halle]

You should check your terms of sale and the shipping conditions.

If it was FOB shipping point or origin then you will have to handle the claim usually.

If it was FOB destination then the shipper will have to handle.

Manufacturers may step in to help at times but consider that an exception to the rule.

I used to order millions of dollars worth of stuff to be shipped and I learned early on to negotiate terms to include FOB destination.

Peter

 

[DoubleL]

If you paid with a credit card, I would contact the credit card company and see if they can help. They will often get involved on the cardholder's behalf.

Larry

 

[escan]

Any option to replace the damaged parts-not what you want to hear but may be the quickest route to success if the suggestions above do not pan out. 

 

[ChuckM]

As suggested above, contact your credit card issuer immediately to file a claim. The suggestion that once you accepted the goods, you are on your own is NOT necessarily true. In multiple times, I signed and accepted something that went wrong and EVERYTIME I was compensated properly either by the sellers or by the credit card issuers. Remember when I signed, I acknowledged receipt of the goods only, saying nothing about its condition or content. The parcel when opened could have just trash inside it. Question: how many of you opened a parcel at the postal office before you put your digital signature on the pad? I have never done that and it has never burned me.

If all fails, consult a lawyer (and hire one if the legal advice is in your favor) -- it isn't as expensive as you think. In my province, many offer the first half hour consultation free. They charge $200 to $300 Cdn an hour depending on experience; some even less. My neighbor was not able to get his renov guy to finish his house renovation in time and asked for a discount as his family had to stay at a hotel for one more week. The contractor refused and received a letter from my neighbor's lawyer. Within two weeks, they settled. After the legal fees, my neighbor still got most of his hotel bills paid for by the contractor. A lawyer's letter can do wonders sometimes. With $7K at stake, this may be the last resort to keep in mind.

Under no circumstances would I take the option of replacing damaged parts on a brand new machine myself. Worst comes to worst, I would rather take the vendor to court and let the legal proceeding run its course if the vendor offers nothing to help me resolve ITS problem. In my claim, I would seek court costs, etc.

 

[southrider]

They are relying on the terms of the UCC - Uniform Commercial Code. It does apply if you are a business.

It DOES NOT apply if you are not a business.

Definitely contact an attorney.

 

[mbach]

This forum is great; thanks folks.

First, Giuseppe Riva did respond to me saying "not sparing any effort resolving the issue." Still, no one on their side has said we'll make it right and get you a new machine.

SCM chose the shipper; in fact the shipping company told me that I can not file a claim since I was not listed.

I'm looking for the terms of sale/shipment.

Credit card company is now onboard.

Just got a message from some virtual inspection company on behalf of the shipping company.

Shipping expert did advise me not to file a claim and that SCM can do that; purportedly shipping companies are not known for paying up.

Washington state, where I live, does have a law that protects the buyer, https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=62A.2-608

 

[ChuckM]

This forum is great; thanks folks.

First, Giuseppe Riva did respond to me saying "not sparing any effort resolving the issue." Still, no one on their side has said we'll make it right and get you a new machine.

Washington state, where I live, does have a law that protects the buyer, https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=62A.2-608

If I were in your situation, I would feel encouraged by the above. It may take a bit of time for them to sort things out.

 

[RKA]

I went back to review the documentation I received on my order 9 months ago.  According to the shipping guidelines memo I received (which was effective 4/1/17), the freight is shipped FOB Origin (however, it states that mostly applies to dealers) and my final invoice stated FOB Duluth at the top.  But that wasn’t present on the initial invoice when I prepaid for the machine and shipping.  It was indicated on the final invoice sent after the machine shipped 6 weeks later.  Further down in that memo is a chart that illustrates who assumes the risk, and it is the receiver in this case.  It also states SCM will not assume the risk unless otherwise stated and the receiver is responsible for filing claims.  Has that been done?  How much time passed between delivery and the claim (or today if no claim was initiated)?

For the J/P, the crate should have indicated which side was up.  Looking at your description, it was delivered on its side, but you didn’t notice?  Did you take any pictures before it was offloaded from the truck or just after it was offloaded that illustrate the shipper didn’t adhere to the instructions?  That would help matters with the claim.

In other circumstances, the vendor usually steps up until the product arrives safely at your door.  So as a buyer, you might believe SCM May deal with all this.  But resorting to legal action may be the long way around the block.  I would start the ball rolling with the shipping company.  And talk to the CC company and understand what time limits might be in play in case the claim with the shipper don’t get paid.  You paid SCM, not the shipper, so in the CC company’s eyes, that may be enough to dispute the transaction.  I doubt you’ll get the funds back if you received the same documentation I did.  But like I said, I wasn’t made fully aware of all the terms until after the order was placed and payment was made.  If that was also the case in your situation, bring that to the CC company’s attention when the dispute is made.

 

[mbach]

I picked the bandsaw and j/p up from the distribution center. I took photos of the parcels but since I had to still get them home could not unpack them at the time; I actually don't think they let you unpack at the distribution center. I noted that the condition of the packaging and crates were not good on the pick up slip but the plastic wrapping on the J/P looked intact. SCM says they didn't use plastic wrap on the j/p and provided photos without it.

I emailed SCM as soon as I found out the condition of the J/P.  I did not initiate a claim as the shipping company won't let me and also don't believe that is in my best interest; SCM should do that.

I have been working to provide information to the shipping company.

I paid SCM for shipping and the equipment; SCM hired another shipping company to ship.

 

[RKA]

Is it possible the person you spoke with at the shipping company assumed the terms of the freight contract rather than actually reading it (shocking as that may be)?  I would make another call just to confirm what they initially told you and specifically highlight that is true if the freight contract indicates "FOB Origin".  Did that ever come up in your previous conversations with them?  I think clarifying WHO should be responsible for filing the claim and who will receive payment from the freight insurer should be easy since that must be documented somewhere on paper.  Whether or not it agrees with what you think is fair probably doesn't matter unless you consult a lawyer well-versed in this sort of thing. 

And it sounds like you do have evidence the crate was handled roughly when you picked it up.  So 4 pieces of evidence go to the insurance company:  copy of the shipping receipt indicating damage on receipt, picture of the exterior damage to the crate, picture showing the crate was received and not right side up, and picture of the damage to the machine which is still laying on it's side.  If you have all of that, the claim should be fairly easy to process.  Maybe you'll need a statement from SCM about whether the damage is repairable or whether it's a total loss, but that's trivial and you can cross that bridge if and when it comes.

 

[ChuckM]

I paid SCM for shipping and the equipment; SCM hired another shipping company to ship.

To a layman like me without any legal training or knowledge of the contract details, this suggests SCM is the party to deal with, not the shipper when it comes to claims/resolution. It doesn't appear to exist any contractual relationship between you and the shipper.

If the wrapping was done by the shipper and not SCM, it suggests damage, if any, was done after the machine left SCM. Still SCM would be the lead party to fix the matter with its shipper, while you might assist in taking and providing photos, etc.

 

[mbach]

ChuckM, agreed and that's exactly my position.

Got a picture

 

[cpw]

If it was like that in cardboard and plastic wrap; the shipper was seemingly trying to hide that they dropped/damaged it.  I had a slightly smaller FS41) delivered to an ABF terminal; and it had clear markings about which end was up with little cardboard pyramids on top indicating that nothing should be forked on top of it.

On Sam's advice, I picked it up at the terminal instead of opting for lift gate (because he says the lift gate is where most damage happens) and they forked it onto a drop-deck trailer that I got from Sunbelt rentals without incident.

Charles

 

[mbach]

It didn't have the blanket and strap but it was on its side. Someone knew it was in a bad way before I got it.

 

[Danzen]

Mbach
I feel your pain. I’m currently trying to get them to give me a refund on an embarrassingly bad S400P. Formerly th MM16. They are completely uninterested in admitting that the machine was defective. The best they’ve offered is to give me replacement parts so I can do the work to fix it. It really seems that the machines and the company are not what they used to be.

How did your case turn out?

Daniel