The Festool of Roofing Nailers?

[Dan Lyke]

We're in escrow on a little house in Petaluma, California. I walked around with the house inspector yesterday, and there are only a few things that need immediate attention. One of them is the roof.

It's a relatively simple roof, the footprint of the house is less than a thousand square feet, there's only one break in the line where one side of the garage roof line is lower than the house line overall, and there's already asphalt shingles on the house, which I hope means that the OSB sheathing has already been done. Obviously I'm going to get a few quotes on someone else doing it, but this being Northern California I'm going to assume that the prices I'm going to be quoted would pay roughly what I bill to my clients, and the countractor would just hire the same undocumented Guatemalans I would if I needed the help, and since I've seen so much lousy construction in Northern California I'd want to double-check all the work anyway.

So what I want to do is consider turning this into a chance to buy a good compressor and a roofing nailer. There's already a compressor thread (and a few others), but I know nothing about roofing nailers, or whether they're general purpose enough to be useful for other things.

Among the complaints I've read on various DIY sites so far is that roofing nailers aren't necessarily consistent with nail depth, which makes me think that someone out there is actually building a really good one that gets all of this stuff right, and a lot of people are just ending up with the Home Depot special by default.

So, anyone want to educate me (or talk me out of this?). And, yes, if the estimate books are right, for a thousand square feet the cost of labor won't necessarily cover the tools, so I could be talked out of it. But this is California...

 

[TahoeTwoBears]

Hi Dan,

Don't personally own one, but everyone in this neck of the woods buys Hitachi's. I was looking at framing nailers recently, and was leaning toward Senco (out of brand loyalty) but everyone told me that the Hitachi's were the way to go.

I've only done one roof in my life. I only learned a couple of things:

1-A nailer wouldn't have been quicker than my hammer.
2-I got more done by working early and late than when I tried working all day. Something about the roof being so much closer to the sun....... ;D

Good luck,

Mike

 

[Jim McFarland]

I'm not a roofer so take this with a grain of salt but I did do some research recently on roofing nailers.  Actually, IMO, the best tool for roofing is a pen to write the roofer a check (similar to my sentiments re drywall!).  Being a tool junkie I did end up buying a Bostitch RN46 and happy with the tool if not a big fan of the work (and this was a 12X30 garage -- pretty small job).

Here's one review you might find useful (interesting to see the review process even if you don't agree with the results) -- this review recommends Bostitch, Hitachi and DeWalt.  The Bostitch is the only coil roofing nailer I found which claims another function (vinyl siding with VSA4 attachment).

If I did it over and really firm about doing the job myself -- I would recommend renting a nailer from the Depot if it's a 1-2 day job.

I've also read it's best to use a hammer if you have plank sheathing so you'll get immediate feedback if you miss a plank with the roofing nail (don't necessarily notice that with a nailer).

 

[Dan Lyke]

Being a tool junkie I did end up buying a Bostitch RN46 and happy with the tool if not a big fan of the work (and this was a 12X30 garage -- pretty small job).

How long did that take you? I'm probably looking at about 3x that in area, with one joint against siding that'll need flashing installed.

I've also read it's best to use a hammer if you have plank sheathing so you'll get immediate feedback if you miss a plank with the roofing nail (don't necessarily notice that with a nailer).

I think that with code being what it is where I am, if there isn't already OSB over the planks I'll have to install it. Hoping that asphalt shingles that have to be later than the original '40s construction means that it is.

 

[Lou Miller]

The guys I sub my roofing out to all prefer the Hitachi. However, a lot of them are using the Bostitch just as much.  I've had two Bostitch guns for almost 20 years now. I don't do a whole lot of roofing on my own, but I do use the guns for lots of other things as well. I can't complain about the service life my guns have given me.

 

[Jim McFarland]

How long did that take you? I'm probably looking at about 3x that in area, with one joint against siding that'll need flashing installed.

Dan, about 4 hours for application of the new roofing.  Again, I am not a pro so I spent a lot of time scratching my ...chin... and measuring to the roof line and laying chalk lines to make sure the rows were on track.  I may have saved 15-20 minutes using the nailer rather than a hammer (and don't hold me to that considering the time it took to set up the compressor and hose).  I'm sure nailers save pros a lot of time but I doubt nailers are a big time saver for the rest of us on small jobs (again, on a big one, I would hire a pro anyway).  You want to buy my nailer?

I'll add nailers are much more convenient than digging in a pouch for roofing nails.  Doesn't take long to drive a roofing nail (tap to set and 1 whack to drive) but digging in a nail pouch does get old after a while.

 

[Tinker]

Dan, in my early days as a mason contractor, I often filled in slack times doining sheetrock and also helping out on roofing jobs.  eventually, i did not have to do those type of jobs anymore, but stuck full time, year in and year out with the work i was best suited for.

At times, i would give a price for a block foundation, or a fireplace/chimney, stonewall, etc.  The owner would ask me how much he could save by helping me.  I developed a very "diplomatic" philosophy and responce.  I would tell the person that it would actually cost him more if he helped.  If he needed to save money, the best way to do that would be to stay out of my way and go hustle up some extra work at whatever he could do best.

When it comes to unskilled jobs (it does take skill to do roofing and sheetrock well, but it always seems to be workers who are never going to be real good at other areas of higher skills), if you are real busy at the thing you really are good at, why climb up there where it is so much closer to the sun on hot days.  Or in cold weather where the shingles just don't want to do what you want them to do, no matter what tools you use.

Somebody once said, "If you enjoy what you do, you will never work a day in your life"  For me, that means I will never work on a roof again.
Tinker

 

[ccmviking]

    If you decide to hire the work out be sure to follow up on your contractors license and insurance.  Roofing doesn't have the highest work-comp rate for no reason.  They are injured the most.  If you have someone fall off your roof (which does happen often) and the contractor doesn't have insurance it may not be your house for long.  We always warn people about using unlicensed folks, but roofers are no doubt the biggest risk due to injury.

Chris...

 

[Woodenfish]

Greetings Dan,

When I take on a new endeavor that requires tools that would make my task easier but do not already own, I weigh foreseen future usage and selling price versus the cost to rent.

Andrew

 

[semenza]

Hi,

    I have a PC Roofing Nailer. Iused it on two small roof jobs. I can't compare it to any others because I have not used any others. But I am very happy with the PC.  I found it much, much faster than a hammer.

Seth

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Hi Dan! This is my first post here, so here goes!! I personally own a Hitachi roofing gun, and it has proven to be a very reliable gun. The company I work for has a number of Hitachi roofers (as well as framers, sheathing staplers, siding guns and various trim nailers), and they all seem to be pretty much bullet-proof. For pneumatics, there are (in my opinion) two ways to look at purchases: Are you buying for yourself or a crew of workers? If you are buying for a crew of workers, I'd recommend Hitachi almost exclusively across the board for large guns, Senco for smaller trim nailers. If you are purchasing for yourself, I'd recommend:
Framing nailer: Max (safest, most intuitive trigger I've come across)
Sheathing Stapler: Max or Hitachi
Siding:Max (same trigger as framer)
Roofer: Max or Hitachi
Hardware nailer: I'm not as experienced here, I've always just used a Palm Nailer, but Bostitch or Hitachi would be my preference
15 gauge Trim nailer: Hitachi or an XP-series Senco
18 gauge Brad nailer: I own an XP Senco
23 gauge Pinner: I'd recommend at least a 1 3/8" capacity, I own a Cadex

I hope this helps!

 

[brandon.nickel]

Tom, I'm confused.  You say "I'd recommend Hitachi almost exclusively across the board for large guns" then proceed to recommend Max for framing and siding.  Which is it?  Can you elaborate on the differences between the two that lead to your recommendation or opinions?

 

[jonny round boy]

I think he meant he'd recommend Hitatchi if it was for a crew to use, and Max if it was for yourself.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Hi! Sorry about the ambiguity. Yeah, I meant that if you were just going to go out and buy a bunch of guns for a crew and bought just one brand, I'd say go Hitachi. For myself, I'll spend the extra $50 for the Max guns, They're both Japanese brands, both made in Japan, and both are constructed primarily of "hard" parts, so when you need to refurbish them all you need to do is replace the driver and a few o-rings and you basically have a brand-new gun. The Max Framer and Sider have a special trigger than automatically and intuitively switches back and forth from contact actuation and sequential actuation without flipping levers or rotating dials.

Basically, you push the nose piece into the wood and pull the trigger, the gun is in sequential actuation and won't fire again until the nose piece extends out and the trigger is released.

Or, if you first pull the trigger, the gun is now in contact actuation mode, and will "bump-fire" until you either release the trigger, or run out of nails.

Once you've used the gun for more than a few seconds it becomes completely intuitive. I don't care for the guns where you can "select" between contact and sequential actuation, because they invariably end up being left on contact actuation, and after my first trip to an urgent-care clinic for a nail sticking out of my forearm I went out and bought my Max SuperFramer.

I hope this helps?

 

[brandon.nickel]

Very much.  Thanks for the clarification.  I bought Senco finish nailers but I've been debating the framing nailer (my next purchase).  I've seen Max for sale, but had never heard of them, nor seen reviews, so now I suppose I'll have to try and dig up some comparisons. 

 

[Dan Lyke]

Thanks for all of the recommendations, and for the thread morph.

We're going to hire someone else to do the roof, and have already hired someone else to do the flooring refinishing, but the budget doesn't allow for someone else to put in the new baseboards, so I think there's a pin nailer in my future. ;D . The thread morph is good on that front...

 

[brandon.nickel]

Dan,

I don't own a pin nailer, but from what I've heard, it may be somewhat undersized for baseboards.  All the trim carpenters I know use 18ga brads for baseboards and casings.  My impression is that pins are mostly used for holding moldings on while the glue is drying.  Anyone else have the same impressions or experience?

 

[dheisner]

I redid the floors in our new kitchen.  It is very strangely shaped, so there were a LOT of baseboard and trim pieces to remove and reinstall.  I have an 18 guage PC 12V that can run off of a battery or a compressor.  There is a small compressor built into the handle.  It did the whole kitchen in one charge and worked flawlessly.  I've redone several room using it for baseboard and trim and the only time I had problems with it was when I didn't oil it properly.  I bought it used off of eBay for $100.  I later bought a drill and flashlight combo that uses the same battery, so now I have 3 batteries and 2 chargers that work with it.  Works well for me.

 

[Dan Lyke]

What I'd like to do is to install the baseboards so that they can be taken up again, because the 5 year plan is to re-do these rooms with wallboard rather than plaster, and upgrade the electrical and insulation while I go (although if I can make enough money, maybe we'll do it from the outside and replace the siding and put in modern sheathing and a drainage plane instead).

Since I couldn't get the old baseboards out non-destructively, and since we want really nice baseboards, I was thinking that I'd tack them in along the top, where I should be able to easily pull them again when we get to that stage. Maybe it's just to do this by hand with small finishing nails, and re-use the holes when I go to re-install them.

Clearly I have some self-education to do.

 

[Eli]

Apologies for off-topic..... next time start a new thread Dan....

I'd be worried about removal damage if you tack them near the top. There's more meat in the middle of the base, and it's easier to patch on the flat away from the profile. Use 18 or 16 ga.

Use two small trim prybars together when you pull it, pry with each gently and alternately and it should come right out. Sometimes a nail will stay in the wall but pull out the back of the board. I think real wood will damage less than MDF, which can get really boogered up.

I use a set of flush nail cutters to pull the nails out the back. When you nail it back up you can fix the old and the new holes together.