The FOG should be linked from the Festool site

[Gary Nichols]

I don't see that the FOG needs any validation, but I originally found this group off the Festool USA website.... probably would have found it sooner or later on one of the other sites I've visited that were linked to the Festool website back then.... Of the four "Website Resources" now listed, only The Wood Whisperer seems to link to the FOG. Seems to me, there used to be more "non-forum" links in the old website... I seem to remember a boat building site, maybe someone restoring a Greene & Greene home, and some info on solid countertop fabrication or something like that.... seems a lot of stuff has been left out, or I just haven't found it yet.

Having raised five children, I know what it's like to spend time or money on one without the others feeling slighted. So I can understand Festool USA leaving out all the forums. Now, if that other forum had been linked and not the FOG, then, I'd feel slighted..... I think festool did what they had to do....... At least Jerry Work and Rick Christopherson's manuals are still there, although I had to look for some time to find them them...

Well, the fog has finally lifted, so it's time to go out & put some knotty pine dust in my CT Mini......

Gary Nichols

 

[nickao]

I agree Gary.

To me it is Festool that can use the validation of thousands of us that like their tools enough to be in a group forum that is dedicated to their tools. 90% of what is said here is about how great the Festool are. The only difference I see now is that the Kapex brought out a lot of commotion and by eliminating the link they may think it is helping them.

I do not look at things from a companies point of view when I am a consumer. I look at my own business point of view, but as a consumer the only thing I care about is that I get what I pay for.

So again, to me it is Festools loss and I think they should include any and all forums about their tools. The forums are here because the Festools are great, if the tools were not great not could the forum stay afloat? I think festool missed this entire point, the forum exists because we like and back their products. I just can not see a down side from their point of view, that is at least before the Kapex and a bunch of nasty posts about it, but that was brought on by them.

Something changed their mind what else could it be but recent negative posts.

My point is that the Forum is becoming more of a consumer protection type forum and that in itself is probably the reason they changed their policy. Instead of just praising the tools I see much more criticism then ever before, that had to play into their decision. A company just not just do things for no reason.

I think the FOG should be linked from the Festool site to help people who want more info or want another buyers opinion. If a potential buyer comes here they are usually told to buy, heck even with all the kapex problems people are still told to buy it, so how does that hurt Festool.

I do not give a care anymore, its not like we get more members from the link, if anything they get more customers because of the link, oh well it is not going to hurt the forum at all that I can see.

It never was a big deal, but combined with Matthew's IP being blocked is what caused me to start this thread.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Nick the problem with your theory about the link being removed and the recent negative posts being related is the link was removed before the critical posts started! I can't help be feel there is some going on we don't know about. As Sean points out Festool has the big guns and can shut things down if they wanted to, but they haven't. Even as this site gets into one mess after another, Festool has kept their end of the deal. That should tell you something.

 

[nickao]

Before the Kapex came out? Before they demanded "festoolownersgroup". I do not think so. It's all related with additional things we will never know or care to know. The timing is suspicious to say the least..

There is always more to the story. It does not effect us so whatever. I just think Festool made a mistake, my opinion, nothing more and if they did or did not make a mistake I do not care either.

I do care if Matthew was or is or even has the appearance of being blackballed. I feel Matthews' forum has done so much good for Festool I took offense, that's all that is to it.

Like the Phil Collins song goes, "I don't care no more".

I still have not heard why it would be a bad thing for us to have the link, there are 14 no answers, that does not seem strange to you? It's probably a good thing after all, now we really have the appearance of not being controlled by festool. That would be a good reason not to want us linked from the main Festool Website, I would buy that reason. I only care about this forum anyway.

So I changed my mind, if they do not want us good for them.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Before the Kapex came out? Before they demanded "festoolownersgroup". I do not think so. It's all related with additional things we will never know or care to know. The timing is suspicious to say the least..

There is always more to the story. It does not effect us so whatever. I just think Festool made a mistake, my opinion, nothing more and if they did or did not make a mistake I do not care either.

I do care if Matthew was or is or even has the appearance of being blackballed. I feel Matthews' forum has done so much good for Festool I took offense, that's all that is to it.

Like the Phil Collins song goes, "I don't care no more".

I still have not heard why it would be a bad thing for us to have the link, there are 14 no answers, that does not seem strange to you? It's probably a good thing after all, now we really have the appearance of not being controlled by festool. That would be a good reason not to want us linked from the main Festool Website, I would buy that reason. I only care about this forum anyway.

So I changed my mind, if they do not want us good for them.

Nick, I'll tell you why I think it's not a good idea for Festool to link the FOG and it's the same reason I voted "NO" in the poll. There is far too much negativity associated with this site for Festool to promote it. I'm not talking about the negative posts about the tools, I mean this place can't stay out of controversy for long. When you look at it in that light I'm sure it's not hard to understand why Festool might not want to promote this site. This is my what I think, I don't know how Festool feels.

 

[nickao]

Can't argue with the negativity take at all, but promoting the sight and linking the site is not the same. They had no problems for how many years?

So again that is probably part of it and that is a view that Festool can possibly take. The poll was for a view from us as a group and as a group I do not care about the Festool company being profitable. From a company standpoint maybe it would be better to eliminate us altogether using the same viewpoint you mentioned.

You answered that question like a rep from Festool and I think the few that have "argued" with you will see this as you yet again defending festool. I see your point, but I do not work at Festool.

I actually agree with everything you say, but I still would have kept the link to any and all groups associated with the tools unless they were a Festool bashing site, which this isn't.. After all this is a Festool enthusiast site and we are here because we love the tools, to me that overrides any single users posts. But of course it is not my company and as I said before, I am over it. It will not diminish the member projects and comments and helpful answers people get when looking for answers when coming here. This thread is pretty much played out.

 

[peter halle]

Nick, Brice, ,

As a professional fence post sitter I offer the following:

Festool is in the business to manufacute and sell tools.  They have a worldwide exposure.  I think that everyone would agree that internet forums are a "dynamic" situation that are hard to control.  Put ourselves in their shoes.  Postimg links are like making recommendations.  Kind of like condoning the actions of others.

Over the years I have had attoneys repeatably tell me that if you are asked if you could recommend someone or a give a reference, just so that your policy due to insurance reasons is not to give references or recommendations.  Recommendations and references with our legal system leads to the possibility of issues.

This post is not speaking against anyone here.  It is the produc of todays society and the wild world fot the internet.  It sucks, but it is real. 

Thanks to both of you for being a part of this forum and caring to the point that you will respectfully speak your minds in an effort to try and make it better.  As front liners you will always get the first arrow, but rest assured that there are others who would love to be able to be up there with you if they had the skills that you do.

Peter

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Nick, I'll tell you why I think it's not a good idea for Festool to link the FOG and it's the same reason I voted "NO" in the poll. There is far too much negativity associated with this site for Festool to promote it. I'm not talking about the negative posts about the tools, I mean some the behavior by the administer and a few members (myself being one of them). There have been claims of manipulation of passwords, statistics, deletion of posts/threads, banning/blocking access of members and the list goes on. It doesn't matter if these things happened or happened or not, it doesn't reflect well on this site. Now add to that the administer has used profanity, called members names and worst of all, he has made some outrageous claims about the administers and moderators of the other site. One of whom is a prominent Festool dealer. This place can't stay out of controversy. When you look at it in that light I'm sure it's not hard to understand why Festool might not want to promote this site. This is my what I think, I don't know how Festool feels.

None of what you say has anything to do with Festool's decision to take down the link to this forum.  As I said, Christian explained to me that Festool's policy is to no longer list any forums on their site.  I take him at his word.  I understand that position, and I'm satisfied with Christian's answer.

But you just had to take a new opportunity to drag out a list of damaging statements.  I'm sure you'll now jump in and tell me you were just making some innocent observation or simply stating your opinion, and you'll be just so surprised at my reaction.

All those "negative behaviors" you speak about were brought on by people external to this forum.  You know this very well.  The claims of "manipulation of passwords, statistics, deletion of posts/threads, banning/blocking access of members" is all a bunch of outright lies by a handful of deceitful individuals trying to promote an alternate forum by destroying this one.  How is this forum responsible for the behavior of outsiders trying to destroy it?

You know what?  I'm growing weary of this fight.  I'm calling on members of the FOG to see the big picture here and start condemning this kind of behavior.  I can't do it alone.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Brice Burrell]

Okay Matthew, I've had time to reconsider, you're right that was underhanded on my part. I have gone back and edited my post. That can't undo any damage the comments may have already made but it's all I can do at this point.

 

[Ron Dunn]

I was silly enough to fall into Brice's trap yesterday. Behind this seemingly innocent, enquiring front lurks a cunning mind. All these questions are actually probes, designed to find little sores which can be aggravated into big, festering wounds.

Brice, if you don't like the forum, move on. There is another out there which will welcome you with open arms. God knows, they need the members and the post count.

 

[nickao]

"This thread is pretty much played out". I still stick to this as the most Important thing.

The negativity was what I was agreeing to Brice, I really should have been more clear. Please do not use me as a person to quote here.  As you may remember I was gone and when I came back I was surprised to learn what the heck went on here. As far as claims of manipulation of passwords, statistics, deletion of posts/threads, banning/blocking access of members I do not think that is relevant and I never read any of the threads having to do with that at all. The negativity and the accusations brought about from the products, not the workings of the forum is what I really was agreeing to.

It does not matter anymore, Matthew has accepted Christians explanation and he is happy. As to why they stopped, we can only guess. I already stated explicitly why I thought they stopped the links and what they would say when asked. about it.

Matthew what can Christian say other than that, he gave the political answer, not the actual answer as to why they made that decision?

Brice, what can Matthew say about your comments but defend himself. I have a bone to pick with the moderators at the other site as well. So Matthew getting nasty is a response that is expected from a real person, not a politically correct poster.

Here are some reasons that may have caused Matthew to get upset at the other moderators, how can anyone blame him. I know the timing of the other forum it took a while to put together so please do not tell me matthew started it first then the new forum started because that is not the case. There were things happening in the background that started long before anyone like me had an inclination too.

Here goes:

You do not copy a web site or forum, slap a few new sections in it and call it unique. So if Matthew is bitter I can not blame him at all. I was led to believe that new site would be different, unique, when in fact it is virtually identical, except for the fact that Matthew has opened up the FOG forum more to valid Festool criticisms and the other site has called MY friends trolls for posting their valid criticisms and problems. The moderators their are nice guys, but that forum is nothing more than a copy cat of this one, that is my main problem with it or possibly I may have been involved in it.

I waited to see what direction the other forum was going and tried to post there and in two days I figured if I was going to be in the same type forum why switch. Matthew put in the leg work, the new forum is only building on what he has done. How can he NOT feel betrayed, used abused and plagiarized.

The deleting of valid complaints about the Kapex and calling someone I know to have had problems with the kapex a troll was the last straw for me.

So lets be done with this and just get on with the posts. The better forum will thrive.

I guess that is a challenge. SO to start lets ease off this thread.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Nick, I owe you an apology, I put words in your mouth in my post last night. I know very well we don't see this issue the same and that we only agreed in part. I've edited the post. I should have been more careful not to imply otherwise. Sorry and PM sent.

 

[wnagle]

I'm new to this forum in the past year.... If you want an outsider prospective, here's what I think....  If I were Festool, From an advertising perspective, I wouldn't want this site linked due to the overwhelming amount of bickering and negativeism.  From  legal stance I wouldn't want to appear to endorse any site, not having control over what advice was given on that site.  I am suprised it was ever linked in the first place.  I can just imagine  someone following some bad advice, getting hurt and then suing festools deep pockets saying they endorsed the information since it came from a link on their site.  That being said the site is full of valuable information and dialog.  It would be a better place if the discussions were about tools and building techniques only.  All the speculation, negative comments, name calling and anger about what someone THINKS Festool should or shouldn't do are beyond the scope of what i think the site was intended.... and it is a useless waste of energy...  Just my opinion on the outside looking in as a newbie....

Wayne

 

[Daviddubya]

Wayne and Chris - Thanks for injecting some sanity.  Negativity and cynicism destroy effective communication quickly.  We have seen far too much of both on this site in the past few months.  Hopefully, some day soon the FOG will get back to its roots.