The problem with Festool - poor instruction manuals

[EWTHeckman]

It is not that hard to figure out how something works.

For the record, I only learned one thing from the manual: That there is a micro-adjustment for the depth stop. The rest was either obvious due to Festool's excellent design (green parts do things), or something I had seen in videos here. (Snugging to the guide rail is the key example of the latter.)

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Because there are comments from members all over the world, it should be pointed out that not all manuals around the world are the same. The default international manual is not the same as the factory North American manual, and of course not the Festool-USA Supplemental manual. The default international manual (the ones with about a dozen languages) cover little more than the minimum require safety information in order for the product to be legally sold in the respective country. The factory North American manual already contains much more information than the international manual, no small thanks I am sure to Christian Oltzscher. All other English-speaking countries still get the international manual, because those countries do not have the "spokesman" we have here in North America (Christian Oltzscher).

Even in the North American factory manuals, they have been improved significantly over the past few years because Christian has gone to bat for this market. Yes, every time they improve the N.A. manuals, I raise the bar a little higher on the Supplemental manuals to keep it just out of their reach, but that is just the selfishness of ME.  [big grin]

As a couple of our international posters have pointed out, Festool-Germany takes the same stance, in that "professional" woodworkers (the target market in Europe) do not read the manuals. So not much emphasis is placed on the content. The U.S. is a completely different market, where many of the Festool owners are not limited to being professional. This is why the standard N.A. manual contains more information, and why Festool-USA sometimes asks me to create a supplemental manual.

A pet peeve of mine, is that when so many questions come up on the FOG forum about a tool, these questions are already addressed in the Supplemental manuals that I wrote, but few of the respondents tell the poster that they exist. Festool USA paid for these manuals to assist these new users. These are not my manuals. They belong to Festool USA and to all of you.

When someone asks a question, tell them, "it's in the manual, and you can get it here...." I created a repository for all of these manuals and documents so they would be easier for anyone to find, but they are also located on the Festool-USA website.

http://www.waterfront-woods.com/festool/

 

[EWTHeckman]

Rick,

Thank you very much for the insight and manuals. Your supplementary manual for the TS 55 is very helpful and includes a lot of the extra information I was thinking the manual should include. (For example: troubleshooting and making adjustments) It was your video where I learned about adjusting the connection to the guide rail.

Quick question: The included manual says to set the speed to 6 for cutting the splinter guard, but your manual says to use the lowest speed. Can you explain the difference? Thanks.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Quick question: The included manual says to set the speed to 6 for cutting the splinter guard, but your manual says to use the lowest speed. Can you explain the difference? Thanks.

That's because it doesn't really matter very much. So these days I simply say to pick a speed in the middle.

 

[sancho57]

I agree the manuals are sort of bare bones. When I took the end user classs someone asked Steve the same question. His response was in Germany they go through a extensive apprenticeship and these tools and manuals are geared for those users .

With that being said, I am fourtunate to have a very good supplier who sends their people to festool  factory training and they use the tools themselves. If I need some how to advice I go ask them. They have a display where I can play with the tools make cuts etc. They will take the time to explain or show me how to do whatever I want to do.

Also the local Festool rep, If you can get his number is available for help. My supplier has called him up and had him come out to my shop to show me how to set up use something. I had another supplier , a large lumber yard here call up the festool rep and we discussed a supply (where to buy) issue.

I have called festool once and talked to them about setting up/ calibrating the parallel guides.

My supplier has books on festool products called "Essentials" they are more of a pictorial. The one I saw was on there routers use and set up and accessories.

It like most festool things were not inexpensive about 30 bucks for the book. It covered all four routers, 700, 1010, 1400 and 2200 plus accessories. I think I saw it sold by amazon too.

So in a nutshell what Im saying is the information sources are out there.

Now with that being said, I got a video by Gary Katz on door installation, though not instructional on the use of festools was a joy to watch him use them in door installation

 

[Bainiet]

Festool manuals describe perfectly every single item you CAN adjust in order to operate the tool. However they do not write anything you might be able to do with the tool.  [tongue]

Although both are of importance (especially for me as I consider myself a newbie) I look at Festool, , You Tube, Marc S. or ANY other woodworking site that will help me working SAFELY with any tool. How much would I pay for proper instructions for power tools? Probably nothing because there's so much information out there for free. It takes time to look it up over and over again but standing in the garage I still make STUPID mistake now and then. [oops]  [crying] I call this the learning process...

I know my tools can do a lot more if only my skills were better. Fortunately I still have 10 fingers and hopefully many years to find out how to work with my collection. I buy Festool because it is made to last for years not for reading a manual. That is something I do BEFORE I buy the tool. ;D

 

[JeromeM]

Festool manuals describe perfectly every single item you CAN adjust in order to operate the tool.

As has been mentioned no they do not unless you live in 1 or 2 of the many countries (100 may be) in which they are sold. In most countries they are not as good as the old Japanese or IBM manuals were.  [wink] The Japanese learned and now they are good, IBM didn't and lost ground, Festool NA seems to be learning but it's a pity that HQ seems to be resistant.

 

[tbellemare]

If anyone has questions that they can't answer, I'm happy to help. If I can't help, I'll figure out someone that can...

Tom

 

[johnrichardson]

No, I'm not going to complain about the price, or the fact that buying these things is slightly more of an addiction than crack cocaine.   I'm going to complain about the instructions.

I am a hobbyist, so I'm not doing wood every day - the computer stuff pays for the wood stuff if you get my drift.  So I'm going to make a built-in for my son's bedroom, nothing particularly complex.  A ply structure at the back, with an oak frame on the front to look nice and hang the doors off.   It will have the 32mm holes in it for shelf placement.  

I go to my stack of tools, I know I need the OF1010 and 32-SYS and the little widgets that link it all together.   I put them all on the MFT and look at them.   Hmmmm.    Jigsaw puzzle.   I've left the instructions in the box, so I have a quick look - nothing useful, just "don't drag the tool round the garage by the power cord" in 17 languages.  

As a customer of one of the finest tool outfits in the world, what do I do to solve this problem?   I come here, to the FOG, and watch Hokeydokreg's primer on making built ins from start to finish.   [big grin]   Got it now, I understand the system again, off we go.  

So what am I asking for?  

- How about the FOGs greatest hits on a DVD in the box?    If Festool don't want Hokeydokreg as a front man, they could remake them, but I think he's great.  
- How about a folded A3 sheet with the key operations for the tool (in pictures) in the box.   You could leave it under the insert once you have read it, and always have it to refer to.  

Yes Great Tools but terrible instructions on every tool you have to work it out for yourself mostly, its a case of suck it and see [unsure]

 

[Ted Miller]

I have to say most if not all tool manuals suck, no matter the brand.

The web is my manual on just about everything I purchase nowadays...

 

[Acrobat]

I agree with most of the posters here, I find the manuals lack of explanation on what the attachments may or may not do very poor. It must hinder their sale surely. Who knows what some of them do? So one has to search here to see if someone has it and hows its used and what other attachments you need for it to actually work. Look at the LR32 it's got quite a few attachments in the kit but very poor info on what each is used for, similar to the 1010 router. I recently got a 1010 and even asked the salesman what a piece in the kit was for and neither of us can figure it out. Going onto festools website they simply state the name and number of an item and no real detail on how or why its used. Thankfully people have put up videos on various bits and pieces so you can get a better understanding on them and their uses correctly. Well thats my take on it anyway.

 

[andvari]

Yes the included factory manuals are weak.

However this site, the videos and the supplementary manuals provide much more information than I've found on any other tools I've purchased.

The only problem I see is if you are inexperienced and are trying to use these Festools without being used to using the internet as a research tool.

Perhaps the importance of this site should be emphasized in the packaging of the tools.

 

[Acrobat]

Yes the included factory manuals are weak.

However this site, the videos and the supplementary manuals provide much more information than I've found on any other tools I've purchased.

The only problem I see is if you are inexperienced and are trying to use these Festools without being used to using the internet as a research tool.

Perhaps the importance of this site should be emphasized in the packaging of the tools.

Yes and no...I find myself agreeing BUT surely if Festool wishes to promote and sell their attachments a-la-"systems" approach where everything helps your project in a co-ordinated togetherness, then how about them providing a guide on how and what they are used for? If one doesn't know about them, one is less likely to order them and use them, therefore a loss of sale of that item. I would have thought that would be to Festools own advantage to promote their own products better, rather than leaving it up to individuals to trawl internet sites etc and have people make their own videos to demonstrate things to others because of this initial lack of information being available.

 

[Steve R]

Yes the included factory manuals are weak.

However this site, the videos and the supplementary manuals provide much more information than I've found on any other tools I've purchased.

The only problem I see is if you are inexperienced and are trying to use these Festools without being used to using the internet as a research tool.

Perhaps the importance of this site should be emphasized in the packaging of the tools.

Yes and no...I find myself agreeing BUT surely if Festool wishes to promote and sell their attachments a-la-"systems" approach where everything helps your project in a co-ordinated togetherness, then how about them providing a guide on how and what they are used for? If one doesn't know about them, one is less likely to order them and use them, therefore a loss of sale of that item. I would have thought that would be to Festools own advantage to promote their own products better, rather than leaving it up to individuals to trawl internet sites etc and have people make their own videos to demonstrate things to others because of this initial lack of information being available.

I have posted here about how Festool information can be improved. I agree Festool is system and, that information could be packaged better....

BUT... When I look at any of my other tool manuals... most of the time, if you have tossed the box away... you have lost every bit of info/ manual about them. Most manuals today are just limits of liability, warranty info and a phone number for Customer Service that takes 40 minutes of computer talk menus to reach a person .... to find out Joe, in Guam can't work his headset phone let alone help you.

We need to look at it this way the Festool System in complex... especially when you're new to it, and even when you know some Festool tools,  but move into a different tool category that you don't yet own. The complex system is why we buy it and love it.... but that is also why we can be and are a bit frustrated. We know it can do this but we need the figure out how. Thank goodness for web videos and other online media.... the problem with that is when you work on site... you really need a systainer with a computer in it to get answers.  Smart phones help....but now Festool/FOG needs a whole other site built to work on smartphones.

Base line, Festool is head-and-shoulders above the rest of most all tools! Being that Festool buyers are looking for the best tools and have chosen Festool we have set the bar pretty high for our expectations... of the tool, the case, the manuals, customer service...  We know the Festool Engineers can't leave a tool design alone for a minute. When the new model comes out out they are working to improve it! So.... Festool should understand that the customers are the just the same OCD type personality...  so Festool gets...comments like ~ Great you just put out a manual...but.... you could have... yada, yada...

I don't think Festool should stop improving the tools and I don't think customers should stop asking for more.... we all just need to remember what we have now is very, very good.  Ideas, comments and what seems like complaints don't mean that anyone has failed... people just want to help.  Does anyone think DeWalt has customers this active and passionate about their product or a forum like this..... NOPE!

Cheers,
Steve

 

[RC]

So next time you buy a car ..... you want the manufacturer to include driving lessons?

Well, actually the better car manufacturers do just that - my mate has attended driving courses at Maranello when he bought his Ferrari as well as has attended multiple driving courses with Porche ranging from track lessons with GT3's to off-roading with Cayennes and ending with nothing less than doing ice circuit driving at the north pole with 911's.

Seeing that we are buying the Ferraris of hand held power tools I would expect to get at the very least descent manuals to go with them as well as understandable system integration manuals to understand how each tool can be used with other parts of the system instead of going through it with trial and error.

Thankfully Festool US has funded (if I've understood correctly) some great supplemental manuals for some of the tools (for example Domino Guide and Rick's Guides

Festool Germany also published a nice hobbyist targeted Holtzidee-magazine (Wood Ideas) that has projects to build and obviously utilises heavily Festools - unfortunately it's only available in German as far as I know.

 

[adubeau]

Manual? they come with manuals? 

[scared] [eek] [blink]

 

[Jaybolishes]

Well said Steve

 

[Steve R]

Well said Steve

Thank you.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[RONWEN]

As poor as the Festool factory manuals are they probably aren't much worse than most other manufacturer's manuals.  The obvious exceptions are outstanding manuals & support such as provided by Leigh jigs.  http://www.leighjigs.com/support.php

Thankfully, we have this excellent forum and supplemental manuals (also excellent) that Ick painstakingly creates.  [thumbs up]

 

[JPatrickWinstead]

I agree that the manuals are lousy. I get annoyed every time I buy a new tool. However, I have a theory that they do it on purpose.

Festool is so on top of their game that I find it hard to believe that they couldn't produce a decent instruction manual if they wanted to. They position themselves as the high-end, exclusive choice of people who really know what they're doing. How do you make something exclusive? Make it expensive, and make it require some effort and insider knowledge to use.

Yes, they make great products, but that isn't enough. A major, major asset that Festool has - that most companies would kill for - is a rabidly loyal customer base. This forum is evidence of that. Festool isn't a brand, it's a lifestyle. Forcing people to research in order to learn the tools just pulls them further into that lifestyle, and it further cultivates the user community.

Like most things Festool, I think that it's brilliant.