I'm building a large assembly table and need advice on the best material for the top. I have a CNC vendor who will rout matching MFT holes and pattern, etc. for a very affordable price, so no... I won't be spending $600 to buy 3 perforated panels from Festool. Can someone identify the "type" of MDF which was used on the MFT/3? All of the MDF I've used to date, is gray in color and does not seem as dense, or high-quality as Festool's. On-line, I found a German product called LITE-MDF which is made of spruce and looks – can't tell much from their tiny photo – like Festool's. Or, should I consider plywood or counter material instead. Note: my shop is in my unheated barn so humidity and temperature variations are important considerations. Your thoughts/advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your assistance!
The top on my MFT/3 is what type of MDF?
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Ken Nagrod
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Iwood75 said:
Gray? All the MDF I've seen/used, even in your area was brown. Where are you getting yours from?
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Have you considered Richlite?
It machines much like wood and is very stable. It's used for countertops and also by Boeing for fixtures.
Tom
It machines much like wood and is very stable. It's used for countertops and also by Boeing for fixtures.
Tom
I buy very similar MDF as my MFT/3 from both Home Depot and Lowes. Most MDF that I have ever seen, looks very similar. Even the LDF I have used, has about the same color to it as my MFT/3 top.
You probably can get a 4' x 8' sheet of 3/4" MDF from a big box store for $30 to $40. Currently I paid $34 for a full sheet.
I use MDF and LDF pretty regularly (in four different states in 10 years) and the only difference I have seen between manufactures of MDF is the tendency for it to separate like flakes after some abuse to it. But with new stuff, it would be hard to tell the difference.
If you are seeing a different color, you are probably seeing a different product.
You probably can get a 4' x 8' sheet of 3/4" MDF from a big box store for $30 to $40. Currently I paid $34 for a full sheet.
I use MDF and LDF pretty regularly (in four different states in 10 years) and the only difference I have seen between manufactures of MDF is the tendency for it to separate like flakes after some abuse to it. But with new stuff, it would be hard to tell the difference.
If you are seeing a different color, you are probably seeing a different product.
Kevin Stricker
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Not all MDF is the same, there is a big different in density and stability between Home Depot MDF and say Plum Creek MDF. I would steer clear of big box MDF and also Ultralite MDF as it is a bit friable and I think would easily get damaged when putting clamps in it. Considering you are using it in your barn I might go for Medex, which is a water resistant variety. You may also want to check out Extira, which is a new(to me) exterior rated MDF product that has a similar density to Plum Creek MDF.
Buy the good stuff, considering you are looking for a workshop application the higher density the better.
Buy the good stuff, considering you are looking for a workshop application the higher density the better.
Deansocial
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Ken Nagrod said:
i think deep rout mdf is greyish
As stated above obtain the most dense material available due to the aforementioned clamping issues. Remember that Festool is using a very high quality grade of material for the MFT tops. Sometimes supplies like this are not available to the general public. If they were then why would anyone want to buy from the Pros such as Festool. I. E. Why go to a Steakhouse and pay more for a steak than one that I can buy at a supermarket. Because the Steakhouse and restaurants normally obtain higher quality cuts of meat. This is done to encourage people to go out and spend their hard earned money on something that someone else prepares. This is what employees people at restaurants and also at Festool. So good luck trying to find comparable material for your endeavor.
I don't know exactly what the composition of the Festool MFT top is but I'm guessing it is something they have made for their specific purpose. It is certainly moisture resistant to a point as everyone uses my MFT tops to make coffee on site and it doesn't affect it in the same way that bog standard MDF would be affected. My two tops are 19.75mm thick which is neither a readily available metric or imperial size. I considered having my own tops done on CNC machine but it was going to be a lot of faffing around for results that could have been iffy so I spent £120 on two tops and am very happy with them. There didn't seem to be a lot of mileage in trying to beat Festool at their own game.
Use either HDF (High density fibreboard) or moisture resistant MDF.
If you use a laminated board such as ply it stands a good chance of de-laminating in a damp or moisture laiden environment. Plus it's not as dimensionally stable as HDF or MR board.
With ply you also run the risk of breaking the timber around the holes and also damaging the surface of the board if you over tighten your clamps.
If you use standard MDF you can literally put a cup diwn on the top and if it's got a wet bottom [sad] it'll blow the surface if not sealed.
HDF would be my choice.
If you use a laminated board such as ply it stands a good chance of de-laminating in a damp or moisture laiden environment. Plus it's not as dimensionally stable as HDF or MR board.
With ply you also run the risk of breaking the timber around the holes and also damaging the surface of the board if you over tighten your clamps.
If you use standard MDF you can literally put a cup diwn on the top and if it's got a wet bottom [sad] it'll blow the surface if not sealed.
HDF would be my choice.
Thanks all! You've armed me with exactly the kind of information I was seeking. I'll be checking out your suggestions.
In that my CNC vendor is a lumber yard, my options may be limited to what they stock or their wholesalers can provide. But, I won't just "settle" either. First and foremost is obtaining the best material. If they can't supply it, I'll buy elsewhere and pay them for their CNC routing... or drill the holes myself. Thanks again for your assistance.
In that my CNC vendor is a lumber yard, my options may be limited to what they stock or their wholesalers can provide. But, I won't just "settle" either. First and foremost is obtaining the best material. If they can't supply it, I'll buy elsewhere and pay them for their CNC routing... or drill the holes myself. Thanks again for your assistance.
My CNC company quoted me $77.00 to rout the hole pattern in a 4'x8' sheet of 3/4"regular MDF. They CAN get 3/4" Medex and do the job for an additional $50.00. I realize that Medex is water resistant – therefore a better choice than regular MDF – but is it any more dense? They can't get Richlite or Extira and haven't yet found High Density Fiberboard. I visited 2 other lumber companies and they don't stock HDF and can't order-in just 1 sheet. I know that some of you have a lot more experience with these materials than I. What would you do? Keep searching for HDF or go with the Medex? Thanks again for all your great advice.
Joel
Joel
I do not want to discourage your efforts but it sounds like you are about to spend $120.00 dollars on a MFT top that is most likely going to be missing some of the detailing that will be inherent in the Festool product. Bear in mind that the MFT top made by Festool has beveled edges and through holes holes drilled for the mounting on the MFT table. Also the holes are extremely accurately positioned. Another thing that I would consider is how much is my time worth to research and coordinate the effort of having the material obtained and then brought to the fabricating facility and then of course having that done and then picking up the top once that is done. Remember that all Festool wants for the replacement top is $145.00. So your going to save $25.00 for something that may not be as good as the product made by Festool. Such as the material for the top. If it sounds like I work for Festool I assure you that I do not. I am just a hopelessly addicted Festool-Holic.
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No, he is getting a much larger MFT top, 4' x 8'. The beveled edges are easily added with a router afterwards. [smile]
His CNC holes should be just as accurate as Festool's holes. [smile]
His research and efforts could pay off in future jobs, knowledge is priceless. [smile]
If he goes with the Medex, he may have found something better than Festool. No way of knowing until someone tries. [smile]
Keep going Joel, there's lots of us out here still rooting for you. [smile]
His CNC holes should be just as accurate as Festool's holes. [smile]
His research and efforts could pay off in future jobs, knowledge is priceless. [smile]
If he goes with the Medex, he may have found something better than Festool. No way of knowing until someone tries. [smile]
Keep going Joel, there's lots of us out here still rooting for you. [smile]
Kevin Stricker
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Tom, I think you are missing the point that he wants a larger tabletop than a single MFT top. Also, there is nothing special about the MDF that Festool uses. I actually think they have decreased the quality of MDF used as my 3 year old MFT top is holding up a lot better than the one I got last year and I have been babying the new one to keep it looking pretty.
Joel, I would ask them how much for additional tops. Most likely the bulk of the price is in the setup of the CNC. I would consider just getting 2-3 tops in regular MDF, then you are set for a good long time. If one gets ruined you have a backup. Smaller off cuts could be really useful for jig making and possibly other small tops.
Just an idea...even if they charge full price for a second top it is still only $20 more than a single Medex top. Spray some Sealcoat on it and it should be fine unless your barn has a leaky roof.
Joel, I would ask them how much for additional tops. Most likely the bulk of the price is in the setup of the CNC. I would consider just getting 2-3 tops in regular MDF, then you are set for a good long time. If one gets ruined you have a backup. Smaller off cuts could be really useful for jig making and possibly other small tops.
Just an idea...even if they charge full price for a second top it is still only $20 more than a single Medex top. Spray some Sealcoat on it and it should be fine unless your barn has a leaky roof.
personnaly i would make a jig for doing the patern rather than the top itself.
cnc the holes to fit a guide bush you have (30mm maybe) and use a 20mm bit to make the holes in whatever material you want. peronally this is what i will do . cnc in a few registation points so that you can continue the patern, 20mm holes for qwas dogs on the sides to give the corect inset for the holes and notchs for the qwas dog s to regester against for moving it along the piece.
im sure a 4.5 foot piece of plastic or dence sheet goods wouldnt be that dear and you can use it for ever and even do a few for your friends
cnc the holes to fit a guide bush you have (30mm maybe) and use a 20mm bit to make the holes in whatever material you want. peronally this is what i will do . cnc in a few registation points so that you can continue the patern, 20mm holes for qwas dogs on the sides to give the corect inset for the holes and notchs for the qwas dog s to regester against for moving it along the piece.
im sure a 4.5 foot piece of plastic or dence sheet goods wouldnt be that dear and you can use it for ever and even do a few for your friends
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