Thinking about buying a Kapex but nervous about all the posts of problems

[jbasen]

I've been thinking of replacing my Milwaukee Sliding Compound Miter Saw with a Kapex.  I really like the Milwaukee; especially the digital angle readout.  What I really dislike about it is that dust collection is a joke.  It spews dust everywhere.  Since my home workshop is on the second floor of my house in a bonus room over the attached garage, dust collection is a high priority for me if I want to maintain good relations with my wife  [big grin]

The Kapex seems like a great choice.  I've read a lot of posts from people that seem to love the saw.  However, I've also seen quite a large number of posts from people that have significant issues.  This makes me really nervous considering the high price of the Kapex. 

I decided to do a little experiment to try and help me decide what to do.  Instead of making this an emotional decision, try to make it a little more of an analytical decision. 

The Festool Tool Problems Board has 1164 Topics.  So, I started searching for keywords and counting the number of topics returned.  Here are the results

Sander - 203
TS - 48
Domino - 194
Vacuum - 148
Jigsaw - 54
Drill - 166
Router - 190
Planer - 55
Kapex - 296

I realize this just provides a rough estimate.  For example, there are posts on one tool where there is a passing reference to another.  However, the fact that there are, for example, 1.5 times more posts for the Kapex than posts for all the sander models that Festool makes gives me a lot of cause for concern.  [eek]

Is there a real problem with the Kapex and I should just keep my Milwaukee, or am I looking at this the wrong way?

Thanks

 

[nclemmons]

Buy it and try it for 30 days.  I bet you keep it.  No risk.

It's a great saw in my experience and a customer obsessed company backing it up with three years of warranty service.

Neil

 

[Iceclimber]

Just buy the saw already.

If for no other reason than you will be able to stop thinking/wondering/wanting it and get a decent nights sleep for once.

I know it worked for me. Only problem with my approach is if something goes wrong with it I'm really gonna go outa my mind as my gut told me prior to the purchase this saw sure seems to have an awful lot of problems completely separate from the fact is cost three times more than any other saw.

Really though i am so glad i purchased the Kapex. It really really is a joy to use and just a amazing tool. So much so any short comings it does have like "dust collection" you will soon see right past as it is offset by its other strengths...

I used my Dewalt the other day on sight to make a couple cuts. After not having touched that saw for over a month now having a Kapex i really couldn't help but be reminded just how nice the Kapex really is. Its like driving a old truck that needs a new suspension and breaks vrs a brand new Porche 911 turbo off the lot...

 

[FinishingCanuck]

I agree with what's been said. Buy it. If u don't like it, return it, no charge. $50 bucks says it stays in your possession. If u you return it just to buy a different kapex, that's cheating and my bet is null/void and I will not pay you $50. If you decide to keep it, you don't need to pay me my $50. Your satisfaction is enough for me.

FYI. I only own 3 festools. The ts55, ct26 and the Kapex. IMO the kapex is a far better value than either the ts or ct. I love my ts and adore my ct but the kapex is the only toll I refer as "my baby" no joke, I call her that. Er... I mean it. I call IT my baby. No joke. Many people refer to their truck as a "her" myself included but the kapex is the only tool I have ever liked so much to call my baby. Just do it

 

[jbasen]

Thanks for the input.  This will probably be a February purchase so I have some time to think about it some more.  Since I'm just a hobbyist, my wife gets me tools for holidays and gifts.  I'm getting a Vecturo and a DW735 with a Shelix cutterhead for the holidays.  My anniversary is in February [wink]

 

[Iceclimber]

You will probably tire of the Dewalt. I could be wrong. I dint have the Shelix but I'm ready to CrAigslist mine and upgrade asap..

 

[semenza]

    I did the Kapex search on the Festool Problems board but using topic title only search to weed out topics that have the Kapex mentioned only in passing as opposed to it being the tool with the problem. I was going to do the rest but then realized I would need to do them for each tool by model name as opposed to just "sanders" to get all the results in a title only search.

  Kapex = 150
  Domino = 105
  TS55/75  = 71
  Sanders =  would need to do all the models

        Not sure how useful the numbers are when you can't compare it to the total quantity sold of each tool to get a percentage. And also would be more useful if the results could be compared to similar for other brands. I guess it could be a rough gauge but there are a lot of factors that are hard to figure in just by guessing.

      My advice is to buy it, use it a lot in the first 30 days, and if you keep it there is that three year warranty to cover you if you have a problem. And Festool now pays shipping both ways for the full three years.

Seth
 

 

[dltflt]

I've had mine for several years now and I have not regretted it one minute.  It is by far the best miter saw I have ever owned.  Absolutely no problems and the dust collection is very good.

 

[AIPDX]

jbasen, my two cents:  keep in mind that if reliability was equal across tools, the number of issues would be proportional to the quantity of tools sold. Most people choose the tools which stand out compared to competition in terms of functionality or efficiency. Kapex, Domino, TS, Routers are definitely on everyone's "most wanted" list and likely sell in much higher quantities than other Festool tools. Vacuums are often bought in packages with tools and are also high sellers. Your list follows this trend. The only item that surprises me is the drill because I would think that Festool drill would be a top priority tool for most people and I would not think that Festool sells as many drills as Kapex's, but I might be wrong.

Sander - 203
TS - 48
Domino - 194
Vacuum - 148
Jigsaw - 54
Drill - 166
Router - 190
Planer - 55
Kapex - 296

Another factor to consider is that due to the "merit" of notoriously poor documentation which has become a "trademark" of Festool, the fraction of Festool owners which are active in this forum is likely quite high and a large fraction of issues across all sold tools get reported both to Festool and here - the reason being that Festool Owners Group is a useful and fuctional discussion forum where solutions to common problems are offered and discussed among members. My point is that with these circumstances in mind, the numbers that you quoted do not appear high.

 

[Len R]

The Kapex is a fabulous tool.  I had a Makita LS 1013 and could not adjust it to cut perfect 90 degree miters for the frames of  frame and panel doors for an armoir. The doors are 48" tall, so any deviation in the mitre cut is magnified greatly.  After ruining many feet of solid ash frame, I gave up and bought a Kapex.  Followed the set up instructions to adjust for 90 degree cuts, and the results were spot on.  Could not be happier with it.  Attached is a photo of the results. 

 

[Birdhunter]

I replaced a very good compound sliding miter saw with a Kapex a couple of years ago. I've never encountered a problem. I can use it indoors whereas the old miter saw had to be used outside. It is easy to set up and it makes great cuts. The mobile stand works well with the Kapex.

The Kapex is a complex mechanism and it encounters some extreme forces at extreme angles. It seems normal that a Kapex would have a higher likelihood of a problem than something like a drill that is much simpler and encounters fewer stress vectors.

Buying from a customer driven company like Festool, should give confidence any problem will be resolved.

 

[peter halle]

I have only been hesitant once to buy a Festool product and that was the Kapex and I had 2 other miter saws to use.  I wasn't afraid of the warranty or durability, it was cost.  Time and a final catastrophic failure of one of the Hitachis erased my hesitation.  And it has met or exceeded my expectations since 2010.

In 2009 a bunch of us got to see the service department at Festool and since then I have seen it a few more times, although  not recently, but the space was compact and not packed with tools.  Some of the tools there for servicing were evidently not not there for warranty repair but rather for paid service due to their usage.

With the warranties in place and the 30 day try it as you would use it in real life return policy for tools - not necessarily accessories - there should be ample time to make a decision without undue pressure. Also posts about a tool in the problem area doesn't mean that there is actually a tool "problem"; it could be a usage question, an adjustment, a general dislike.

Good luck in your tool decision!

Peter

 

[Johnny5]

Rcvd mine a week ago.  One of those threads in the problem area is mine.  The saw took a rough ride to my house.  Packing blocks were destroyed, saw was at an odd angle out of the box, wasn't sure it held up.  Posted here and sent an email to Bob Marino.  He replied with a follow up shortly after from Festool, and Shane and others replied to my thread within minutes.  All of this calmed me down a bit, and so far the saw is flawless.

Haven't done a full workout with it yet, but the few cuts I have done have been spot on right out of the box even after t harsh trip. Dialed in the lasers and I love them.  Right off the bat you need to make a zero clearance throat plate and auxiliary fence.  I have had a couple of small off cuts go flying (a problem I have seen in here before), and one racked the blade enought to damage the ZC throat I made just hours before.  Supposedly the auxiliary fence helps with this.

Dust collection is awesome.  It was one of the main selling points for me.  Saves me countless steps being able to cut in a customers home, and keeps me out of the freezing temps during the day.  Worth every penny just for that!

 

[jbasen]

Thanks again for all the replies.  It makes me more comfortable to see all the positive input from people.  As I said, I know the saw has some great attributes besides the dust collection.  It is just the number of issues people seem to have had that has me nervous. 

Thanks also to Seth for reminding me that the 3 year warranty now includes shipping both ways.  That definitely helps. 

My personal guess is that sanders are Festools best selling product.  I say that because everyone that I've seen posts from on FOG seems to own several.  You may only have one vaccum, one Kapex, but everyone seems to have at least 3 sanders.  Given all those sanders I still found far fewer posts for the word sander than the word Kapex. 

Not to hyjack my own thread but, I know that Festool is very closed mouth about new tools and new upgrades to tools.  Has anyone heard any rumors about any changes to the Kapex in 2015?  Buying a tool in February is always a gamble on getting in before the annual price increases or waiting because a tool is going to be upgraded with new features and paying the price increase is worth it. 

Thanks again for everyone's input.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Just a general observation from the "inside". When I go to the repair department, there aren't proportionally more Kapex than other tools. I can't say, just as a casual look around, that there's a particular tool that we see repaired more than any other. We have very low repair rates for all of the tools. We have a very small group of techs doing repairs considering the number of tools we sell.

As others have mentioned, the 30-day return guarantee and the 3 year Service All-Inclusive warranty should offer comfort.

Remember that your search of the forum doesn't show which were "problems" that needed to be repaired and which were just folks asking questions or didn't understand something. Also, we did have an issue with the Kapex during the initial launch which caused a scraping noise on the miter gauge, which might account for quite a few posts in 2007.

 

[BMH]

It's a great saw especially with the UG stand. One of the "problem" with the Kapex is that it has been engineered to do more then most CMS and to do it well. This causes a steeper learning curve and probably results in a large numbers of the "problem post".
A simpler way to look at it, if it was not worth $1,500 most people would be returning it before 30 days and get their money back. Festool being a business would have pulled it out of the US market.

I had a good Makita CMS in a small workshop, it did OK. But the dust issue was one major problem and then I had a number of project where I had to take it on road trip and got tired of lugging that weight around. Kapex replaced it and I never regretted it, lungs and back say thank you all of the time.

My suggestion wait till you have a project where you will be using it a lot. Buy it, use it, and then make your final decision before 30 days are up.

 

[Brice Burrell]

.....My suggestion wait till you have a project where you will be using it a lot. Buy it, use it, and then make your final decision before 30 days are up.

This is good advice, don't get a Kapex (or any tool) until you know you can put it to use.  In other words, don't squander your 30 day return period with the saw still in an unopened box. 

 

[Sean7a]

Another perspective from the "inside".  We don't experience issues with Kapex's in any order or fashion that is larger than any other Festool.  As a few pointed out, there are a lot of ways to correlate the data you posted that explain for the higher # of posts with the "Kapex" keyword.

Buy it.  Buy it locally so you don't have to worry about paying for 30 day satisfaction guarantee back to a dealer like me.  You will keep it.  I promise.

 

[tbellemare]

.....My suggestion wait till you have a project where you will be using it a lot. Buy it, use it, and then make your final decision before 30 days are up.

This is good advice, don't get a Kapex (or any tool) until you know you can put it to use.  In other words, don't squander your 30 day return period with the saw still in an unopened box.

I totally concur, Brice!

If you're near me, let's talk about trying mine...

Tom

 

[Doug S]

I had Kapex problems. When it first turned up the mitre gauge was not set up properly so needed a bit of adjustment. Then when it was about 18 months old it had motor problems but festool sorted this in under a week. Since then I have bought the UG stand and wings so you can tell I plan on keeping the saw. Like everyone has said it is a joy to use and has the best dust extraction on the market, despite my problems I would buy one again.