Thinking about buying a Kapex but nervous about all the posts of problems

[jbasen]

Not purchasing until I have a project is great advice.

And thanks Shane for chiming in with some anecdotal feedback on what you see in the repair shop.  It does help to know these things. 

My concern isn't really minor fit and finish issues that can be part of any tool; especially one of the size and complexity of a Kapex.  The one thing that worries me is that I've seen a number of posts by people where the Kapex motor has died.  That would be an expensive repair if it occurs after the warranty.  This is also the reason for my question asking if anyone has heard any rumors about an upgrade in 2015.  Given that Festool has upgraded a number of tools to brushless motors I was wondering/hoping they might do the same for the Kapex giving it some more power and a more reliable motor.

I live about 10 miles east of the middle of nowhere.  A new dealer just opened so now I only have about an hour and a half drive instead of over 3 hours to a dealer [smile].  Buying local, even through it will cost a little more might also be a good idea.

I do have a friend, another hobbyist, that just lives about a mile from my house with a Kapex.  He definitely loves it.

Thanks again for everyone's input

 

[Landmade]

Why would your more local guy be more expensive?  I thought one of the great things about festool is the universal fixed pricing.

 

[sae]

Tax.

 

[Kev]

I really don't understand why people in the US even bother to ask whether a particular Festool is any good when they get to sample it for 30 days without the need for commitment !

[huh]

 

[jbasen]

I really don't understand why people in the US even bother to ask whether a particular Festool is any good when they get to sample it for 30 days without the need for commitment !

[huh]

In my case because I've noticed a number of posts where people have had the motor die on their Kapex when it is out of warranty.  As a hobbyist the Kapex is a large investment and I want it to last many years beyond Festool's 3 year warranty period.  I know enough about the Kapex that I have no doubt that the saw will be great for the first 30 days.

 

[Throwback7r]

I have had my Kapex for over a year now. " second Festool purchase" and I use it a lot.. it gets beat up up and down stairs with the UG cart and the only fault I have with it, is that the lasers are starting to come out of cal, and you can set them your self.

Hope this helps.

 

[ccarrolladams]

I was introduced to the Kapex shortly after it was announced in Europe, so I had the chance to use Kapex long before I could buy one in the USA. Immediately I pre-ordered a Kapex and took delivery a few minutes after midnight on that magic night.

I did not then have a shop of my own for my cabinet making business. I rented space in the shops of pals. From Day One that Kapex has been used a lot and is still used 6 days a week. At the moment I own a total of eight Kapex: two are permanently installed in my large shop; four are on rolling workstations we built with dedicated CT22; one is on an UG and is kept polished ready to go to sites; a fairly new one is in my condo.

All are used by professionals. None of my Kapex have ever needed to be serviced by Festool. All receive sensible routine maintenance. They keep on working and remain accurate. I know a whole lot of DIY and professional woodworkers, most with Kapex and none have ever told me they had problems with them.

 

[WPeters]

Interesting discussion.  We have the Kapex and it works quite well for us.  In fact i made a video of our set up a while back.  See it here: http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/efficient-mobile-kapex/msg306428/#msg306428 

I think its a little overpriced.

I also think that the Kapex is best used for trim carpentry, etc.  It is a little lighter made than some of its counterparts in my opinion.  That can be a good thing or bad depending on the perspective I guess.  My Festool rep stopped in the shop a while back and while discussing the Kapex he admitted that it doesn't always do well under heavy all day use.  He has had three Kapexs go bad for one of his customers and finally he told them to get an omga or similar. (heavy duty cut off saw)  However I think that was likely a case of not the right tool for the job.  I wouldn't use it all day everyday to cut face frame stock for instance.  All that aside its a good saw with excellent angle and bevel adjustments.  Also pretty good dust control.  Just my $.02

 

[ScoFF]

The Kapex is my favorite tool by them.  I'm a hobbiest and can never justify the price I paid but I did a job that paid for it so it was a free one time spurge to me.
It's light, small footprint, the dust control is very good.  Not perfect as I thought, and I had to buy the bigger hose for more cfm to get more dust.
I have a small shop so I have to lift it up from it's storage place to use it when I need to.  The horizontal mitre is out of line, and I am careful when I put it away.  That's one thing I need to fix, I'm assuming it's 3 screws to loosen and tighten.
I have to make a zero clearance insert and rear support to keep the tearout under control.  I wasn't expecting that either.
For my basement shop, the compact sliding design, the weight and the accuracy pays itself off.  I also love the depth stop groove cutter.  I've used that a few times.

 

[AIPDX]

In my case because I've noticed a number of posts where people have had the motor die on their Kapex when it is out of warranty.  As a hobbyist the Kapex is a large investment and I want it to last many years beyond Festool's 3 year warranty period.  I know enough about the Kapex that I have no doubt that the saw will be great for the first 30 days.

You probably heard about that practical wisdom: with everything electrical, manufacturing defects reveal themselves quickly. If a motor is bound to die because it was not made well, it will like die soon after the purchase. It is not so relevant now, with a better quality control overall, but in the past it was a good practice to keep a new gadget run for as long as you can during the first few days to let it break if it is bound to break before you move your data on it (if it is a computer) or set it up fully (if it is a tool).

After the initial "break-in", the likelihood of failure generally correlates with the load and use. The probability of failure is generally low, but odds accumulate faster with daily professional use than with weekend and evening use by hobbyists. I think there is no reason to worry about reliability when the tool is used for hobby. And, in the very unlikely case if it fails, Festool has customer service and they will fix it - maybe not for free if it is out of warranty, but you will not have to buy a new tool for sure.

 

[AIPDX]

I really don't understand why people in the US even bother to ask whether a particular Festool is any good when they get to sample it for 30 days without the need for commitment !

[huh]

I am curious - Is the policy in Australia different?

I think people who buy Festool tend to be honest and fair. They appreciate that Festool guarantees a 30 day return policy regardless of what the return policy of the individual local dealer may be, but they feel that it is not fair to return an expensive tool just because they bought it to play with it for 30 days without the intention to keep it. They want to become committed and do their research before buying, and return the tools only as last resort if they really do not meet their expectations. At least, this is what I tend to do. Maybe recognition that abuse of return policy will ultimately increase cost and price going forward is a part of it.

Festool is not the only company to offer 30 days unconditional return policy on tools. Dewalt, for example, beats Festool by a wide margin by offering a 90 days unconditional money back guarantee.

 

[Maťo]

I really don't understand why people in the US even bother to ask whether a particular Festool is any good when they get to sample it for 30 days without the need for commitment !

[huh]

Maybe they expect the tool to last longer than 30 days?

 

[Stephen B]

I really don't understand why people in the US even bother to ask whether a particular Festool is any good when they get to sample it for 30 days without the need for commitment !

[huh]

[size=18pt]
I am curious - Is the policy in Australia different?
[size=10pt]
I think people who buy Festool tend to . . .

[size=14pt]
Sure is. Mainly only replacement or repair under warranty. Return only possible due to misrepresentation. Some good companies do however accept returns particularly in situations such as 'I bought 6 and found I only used 4'.
[size=10pt]
You can ask a business for your preference of a free repair, replacement or refund, but you are not always entitled to one. For example, the consumer guarantees do not apply if you got what you asked for but simply changed your mind, found it cheaper somewhere else, decided you did not like the purchase or had no use for it.
[size=14pt]See-
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/repair-replace-refund#repair-replacement-or-refund

Posts like this make me nervous about buying a Kapex. Despite the statistics presented, I have a perception that the Kapex gets more actual faults discussed, rather than operation or design characteristics as compared to other Festools.

 

[AIPDX]

Keep in mind that people get extraordinary picky about details of design and performance when they pay such a high price for a tool. A Chinese brand compound miter saw with laser from Harbor Freight Tools costs around $150, and at this price all you expect is that it can cut lumber. You do not expect precision or repeatability, and do not look for misalignments in the tool because you either assume they are there, or have no idea that the tool can be aligned. Miter saws sold in the Home Depot and Lowes (Ryobi, Ridgid, Dewalt, Bosch, etc.) cost $150 to $600, and your expectations increase with the price. Festool Kapex is $1400, and the OEM stand and extension wings would add another $850 or so, and you need a dust extractor ranging from $50 to $600 depending on what you use. After you paid so much (a full Festool set with stand extensions and CT26 runs close to $3,000), you expect nothing but perfection and you are ready to scrutinize every tiny detail or real or perceived design deficiency. A 0.2 mm gap which you see under a straight edge becomes a potential issue which gets reported and discussed.  To make things worse, Festool does very little, if anything at all, to communicate the way how the tools were designed to be operated and used and what tolerances they were designed with. They usually redesign not only the tool but also the work flow, position of the operator relatively to the tool, etc., but do little or nothing to explain people what they had in mind. I do not know how Festool would even stay in business if not its US division which publishes unofficial manuals, encourages and supports youtube videos, offers trainings, and maintains the FOG forum

When I read the FOG forum, I always keep this specifics in mind. Many things that get discussed in this forum would never be brought up with lower grade tools because they are assumed a "given" and "expected". Not every complaint means the tool is "broken". Oftentimes, it is too high expectation or just lack of understanding how the tool works or is supposed to work. Should Festool had done a better job explaining how to use its tools? Definitely! But this is a different story.

My Kapex will reach a 2 year mark soon, so far no reliability issues with the Kapex or any other Festool tools (I probably have about 10).