Thoughts on new extension ladder

[sgt_rjp]

As a general contractor, I regularly have to set up ladders on uneven grades. I've been looking at this product from Qual-Craft that seems to combine a wide stance, with the added benefit of accommodating uneven grades. I'd be looking at using this product with my 28' fiberglass extension ladder.
https://www.qualcraft.com/construct...ty/product/13696-basemate-ladder-level-system

I like the wider stance it adds, but I'm not sure about the ladder itself with yours and ladders weight being elevated above grade. It does look interesting and I have been eyeing up a few different options. Anyone using a ladder on uneven ground needs a leveler of some type though.

This is the leveler I liked best before finding the sumostance:https://www.wernerco.com/us/en/view/PK80-2

But, since finding the little giant hyperlite sumostance, I'm even less interested in the drilling and cutting required to install these levelers.  The hyperlite has all sorts of pros, but the only cons I've found are the price and not being able to try it first.  I'd really like to try it out to see what bounce there is when climbing.  I think I could mediate that by stepping up from the 1A to the 1AA.  It raises the cost by $61, but only adds 2lbs.  The more I think about it, the less problem I'm having with the cost.  It's like buying Festool:  It may sting a little when buying, but it's a pleasure after that.  Here's a loaded model:https://www.1800ladders.com/little-giant-hyperlite-sumo-cable-hook-vrung#

I don't really want the hooks, but they add very little weight, and if they end up getting in the way, I can probably remove them while keeping the v-rung.

As far as going with a ladder with a proven track record, I think many of these responses show that LG does have a history of well performing, long lasting ladders.  Yes, this is a brand new model, but you can see the evolution from other well-rated models.

 

[Michael Kellough]

The LG Hyperlite 1AA looks like the best you can get at this time.

A lower cost alternate (clearly not as good as the all in one package) is the Louisville 28' with the Qual-craft
Basemate Ladder Leveler.

There is a puzzling price anomaly on this Home Depot page. The 28' Louisville is only $10 more than the 16' version, less than either the 20 and 24 footers.

 

[jeh]

The LG Hyperlite 1AA looks like the best you can get at this time.

A lower cost alternate (clearly not as good as the all in one package) is the Louisville 28' with the Qual-craft
Basemate Ladder Leveler.

There is a puzzling price anomaly on this Home Depot page. The 28' Louisville is only $10 more than the 16' version, less than either the 20 and 24 footers.

I noticed this last week in the store. Very unusual.

 

[egmiii]

[member=21365]sgt_rjp[/member]  Here is a picture of the SumoStance house pad option. I couldn't figure out how to send it in a PM.

 

[sgt_rjp]

[member=21365]sgt_rjp[/member]  Here is a picture of the SumoStance house pad option. I couldn't figure out how to send it in a PM.

Thank you [member=11423]egmiii[/member] .  I finally found a picture that gave me an idea what it is, but not nearly at this detail.  Of course this pad is either from a LUNAR, or the earlier SUMOSTANCE and would probably be too wide for the hyperlite.  I called LG directly yesterday but they weren't much help.  You can no longer purchase direct, and it's such a new ladder that the rep I talked to didn't know anything about it.  He found a house pad kit but the description doesn't match the picture you sent and doesn't sound like it's compatible with the hyperlite.  He is going to research and get back to me.

It's very strange.  Everything points to this being a very recent release and the LG rep said as much.  Many of the reviews are from Sept-Oct, but there are a bunch from February.  And these weren't just mistakenly associated with the wrong model.  They are very detailed with pictures attached.  I don't think they would have been internal people trying to prop up the rating as at least one was very critical.  The best thing I can come up with was that they had a limited early release, and maybe even made updates before the final recent release.

I think I've mentioned all but 2 of the items from the critical review.  One of them is no longer an issue, if it ever was.  He said that the rungs were screwed into the rails, but all the pictures I've seen show rivets.  He also points out that rails are solid, with no opening at the rungs which would prevent the use of some third party accessories.  Where this is true, I wonder if it was by design as they probably wouldn't fit properly since the ladder is more than 2 inches narrower than traditional ladders.

He also expresses concern that the more narrow ladder is less stable laterally than others.  I agree with this, but it only applies to the non-sumostance models.  The sumostance models are nearly 3 times as wide once the outriggers are deployed.

The remaining gripe was the placement of the bubble level.  I'm not too worried about this one as it's a nice feature that most ladders don't have.  I'll agree that it's location is a little awkward, but anywhere else would have left it more vulnerable and probably wouldn't last as long.

I plan on ordering one, but I'm waiting to see what information I can get about the housepad before ordering.  If I can get the housepad direct from LG, I may order from HD.  Otherwise, I'll probably get the loaded one from 1800ladders.

 

[Goz]

I just noticed a review of this ladder on Pro Tool Review. Looks like it was published a couple days ago.  Not sure it will tell you anything you don't already know, but might be worth checking out.

 

[sgt_rjp]

Thanks [member=61366]Goz[/member], but nothing new there.  It is curious that there is no mention of flex in the review on that site for the sumostance, which [member=11423]egmiii[/member] noticed was so prominent.  It would be nice if there was a measurement for flex/bounce that was included in the specs for all ladders. I guess it’s not necessarily a safety thing, but comfort thing for those of us that aren’t on ladders every day.

 

[rst]

In regards to the flex issue.  When I went to work for a commercial painting company I was not comfortable with heights.  The boss had been a union bridge painter and had a reputation for being fearless.  He told me that whenever I was unsure to shake the ladder, scaffolding, of plank vigorously.  His theory was that if you were going to fall it would be better to do it while ready than as a surprise.
I still do that, even on four foot ladder.  Shake, shake, shake... [big grin]

 

[egmiii]

Just for context, the flex on a Little Giant aluminum folding ladder is 10 times the flex on a fiberglass extension ladder. I've never been able to use my 22' Revolution at full extension. The fiberglass ladder (32' in my case) retracted is rock solid. Almost like climbing a staircase. At around half extension, you will notice the flex. It's minimal and doesn't prevent me from climbing to to the top. Extending further will cause me to really question the need to climb. I then use ropes to anchor the top, or park a car at the bottom to prevent kick out if the terrain is soft.

Everyone has different comfort levels. This happens to be mine.

 

[Brice Burrell]

One of the things I didn't like was one of the answers to the question about using the ladder with ladder jacks/plank on the Home Depot site.  The answer was the HyperLite hadn't been tested with jacks/planks so it wasn't recommended.  I don't know if its unsafe or just a cautious answer t avoid liability.  [member=21365]sgt_rjp[/member] if you talk with the rep how about you ask him about jacks and planks. 

 

[Tinker]

Just for context, the flex on a Little Giant aluminum folding ladder is 10 times the flex on a fiberglass extension ladder. I've never been able to use my 22' Revolution at full extension. The fiberglass ladder (32' in my case) retracted is rock solid. Almost like climbing a staircase. At around half extension, you will notice the flex. It's minimal and doesn't prevent me from climbing to to the top. Extending further will cause me to really question the need to climb. I then use ropes to anchor the top, or park a car at the bottom to prevent kick out if the terrain is soft.

Everyone has different comfort levels. This happens to be mine.

I Was 19 and just getting acquainted with the mason trade.  At that point, i was strictly a "helper" or a "gofer".  We were building a high chimney that required18x24 flue liners. I don't know how much they weighed, but they were considerably more than i can lift now at the ripe old age of 39.  When we got to about 30 feet I decided he ladder had too much flex in the ladder.  Of course, i was probably plenty strong to carry my 100 #'s, but those darned flue liners kinda shook me.  I took a  16 foot 2x6 from the lumber pile and  lashed it to a wrung somewhere  as  close to the center of the ladder  as possible. I hoisted a flue ontmy shoulder and stardted climbing. About the time I  got to the end of that 2x6, the ladder had no flex >>> up and down that is.  he darned thing  just started to sway back and forth in an ever  increasing arc. I was about to fling the flue dinnerinto space  when I heard below, "Let igt  go.  I'll catch it."

I yelled, "Get the ---- out of there." I could just imagine  what would happen if the guy actually caught it.  We would have a pancake.  besides, since it was the property owner who was volunteering his body, i probably figured nobody would pay us for the job if he got squashed. I started down the  ladder at an ever increasing speed. The owner  kept shouting he would catch it.  i kept shouting to get out of there.  Evidently, we  had a situation where both people were either crazy or stubborn.

I ended up on top of the owner with the flue liner on top of me. I was not very polite when I finally got to my feet. We both cooled down and both laughed  and joked with each other afterwards.

I have braced ladders since, but always using two planks spread out in opposite directions at the bottom so they  did not sway.
Tinker

 

[sgt_rjp]

One of the things I didn't like was one of the answers to the question about using the ladder with ladder jacks/plank on the Home Depot site.  The answer was the HyperLite hadn't been tested with jacks/planks so it wasn't recommended.  I don't know if its unsafe or just a cautious answer t avoid liability.  [member=21365]sgt_rjp[/member] if you talk with the rep how about you ask him about jacks and planks.

I called their upport line.  The answer I got was slightly different:  They didn’t recommend against using jacks, but rather they couldn’t recommend or guarantee their use.  The recommendation was the same for this as well as my questions about ladder flex/bounce and use of other third party accessories:  try the ladder for thirty days and return it for a full refund if not satisfiied.

 

[Michael Kellough]

You have to wonder how they reduce the weight and still satisfy the 1A or 1AA ratings.
Or, do other manufacturers maintain a higher safety factor?
I'm guessing the use additional equipment comes down to the strength of an individual rung.
If the ratings are legit you should be able use the extra equipment.

 

[gunnyr]

Many thanks for the great discussion!

I have recently transitioned to working on my own.  I own only a 6 foot fiberglass step ladder at this point and wonder what to get next, especially an extension ladder.  My mentor suggested a 22 foot ladder.  One school of thought is to get the ladder (tool) I need for the job at hand and not to acquire it until the job requires it.  That works for the most part but it is better to be prepared with the right gear to begin with or at least to not acquire a tool that has short comings that are not readily apparent. 

This thread gives me lots of insight, personal experience, and well reasoned recommendations.  Thanks! 

 

[Naildrivingman]

One of the things I didn't like was one of the answers to the question about using the ladder with ladder jacks/plank on the Home Depot site.  The answer was the HyperLite hadn't been tested with jacks/planks so it wasn't recommended.  I don't know if its unsafe or just a cautious answer t avoid liability.  [member=21365]sgt_rjp[/member] if you talk with the rep how about you ask him about jacks and planks.

I called their upport line.  The answer I got was slightly different:  They didn’t recommend against using jacks, but rather they couldn’t recommend or guarantee their use.  The recommendation was the same for this as well as my questions about ladder flex/bounce and use of other third party accessories:  try the ladder for thirty days and return it for a full refund if not satisfiied.

I’m wondering if we will see the end of jacks and planks soon?  Personally, I love the combination when properly used, but I’ve seen a lot of situations where people don’t use the combination properly.  Couple that with Uncle OSHA’s requirements and one never knows.

 

[Brice Burrell]

You have to wonder how they reduce the weight and still satisfy the 1A or 1AA ratings.
Or, do other manufacturers maintain a higher safety factor?
I'm guessing the use additional equipment comes down to the strength of an individual rung.
If the ratings are legit you should be able use the extra equipment.

You rise some good questions.  I find it hard to believe the HyperLite's rating isn't legit because of the liability it would open LG up to.  The thing that comes to mind is if other manufacturers have a higher safety factor, compared to the HyperLite, would any of these ladders have a lower rating?  What I mean is wouldn't all of these over-built ladders have the highest 1AA rating?  We know that isn't the case because there are ladders with different ratings.
 

 

[sgt_rjp]

You have to wonder how they reduce the weight and still satisfy the 1A or 1AA ratings.
Or, do other manufacturers maintain a higher safety factor?
I'm guessing the use additional equipment comes down to the strength of an individual rung.
If the ratings are legit you should be able use the extra equipment.

Little giant says it’s their resin-fiberglass that reduces the weight, but there are some other noticeable differences.  The ladder is over 2 inches narrower than some ladders, mainly due to shorter rungs.  Done on a normal ladder, this would present a couple of issues.  It would reduce lateral stability as well as crowd your feet with the fly lanyard.  These aren’t issues for the sumostance with the rope moved to the side and the outriggers. The rungs are also triangular rather than round or d-shape.  I don’t know if that makes it any lighter, but at 1.36”, the treads are wider than many. 

I was curious about exactly what the ladder standards cover.  Here’s an excerpt:
“It does not cover special-purpose ladders that do not meet the general requirements of this standard, nor does it cover ladder accessories, including, but not limited to, ladder levelers, ladder stabilizers or stand-off devices, ladder jacks, or ladder straps or hooks, that may be installed on or used in conjunction with ladders.”

So they are meeting the standards but not opening themselves to more liability by saying you can use any random third party accessory with their ladders.  Nor will they say that those accessories won’t work. 

 

[Tinker]

No matter what ladder, or stabilizing device one uses, it still boils down to "the most important tool to use is the one above, and attached to, your neck."
Tinker