Time for a new table saw...

[ChuckM]

Snip.

It’s odd, but the safety feature has made me even more careful. I don’t want to cause it to trip.

In the early days of the SawStop technology, some anti-SawStop folks pointed to the habit of "overconfidence and carelessness" once the owner was accustomed to the safety feature as the reason why the saw was not a good idea because other machines in the shop did not have the same technology.

Each SawStop activation can be pretty expensive depending what kind of blade you have in the saw. For me, $250 Cdn, give or take. Almost 8 years later, I still have the original cartridge in the saw, despite it being the most used machine in my shop.

 

[nclemmons]

I have tripped my SawStop once - blade touched the miter guide.  Replacement cartridge was $99.  Took the blade to a local saw shop and they replaced a tooth and sharpened it.  Another $35.  I'm very mindful of the cost but appreciate the safety, particularly since I work alone in my shop.

I do recommend you have an extra dado and normal cartridge on hand as well as an extra blade.

 

[ChuckM]

Wait a minute. The cartridge is now $113 Cdn a piece?!

I thought it was $60 (must be the price 8 years ago). If mine tripped, the activation cost would be $300 Cdn (WWI blade). [scared]

 

[ChuckM]

Most US patents are valid for 20 years from when they are filed, if all fees are payed in time. The patents seems to have been filed in 2017, so they will last a while.

The Wikipedia provides some info. on the patent expiry, saying the early patents will start to expire in 2024, but again, I'm not sure how accurate that info. is, or how it'll impact on the clones to come out. I heard several table saw manufacturers have already made or been studying prototypes of their "SawStop" versions. No one knows when or if they'll be on the market, or if they'll face any legal challenges once they come to the market.

 

[jeffinsgf]

I'm going to join the vintage iron choir. On a very restricted budget you could pick up a 1950 - 1960 Delta contractor's saw or Craftsman "100" for short money, put a few bucks and some sweat equity in it and have a saw vastly superior to any new jobsite saw for less money. For a few bucks more, but still in the same ballpark as a new jobsite saw, you could get a Unisaw or Powermatic 66.

I have both a PCS SawStop and a 1962 Craftsman "100". The SawStop is nice and safe, but I have to say my old Craftsman is just as accurate. I paid $100 for it on Facebook Marketplace, spent 3 weekends cleaning, lubricating, aligning and rewiring, maybe another $100-$150 on bearings, modern switch, steel pulleys, segmented belt and new heavy-duty wire.  It's ready for another 60 years.

 

[weekendwarrior]

...
That's too bad missing out on the registration thing. I know of a case in which a discontinued model of Ridgid machine couldn't be fixed. The owner talked to Home Depot about it intending to negotiate for a discount to get a replacement (in a new model). Since it was registered, HD replaced it with no charge.
...

That was my experience!  I had a lot of the old Ridgid 24V gigantor tools from the 00's that stopped charging or started to smoke.  The lifetime service agreement provided brand new 24V batteries that still work to this day.  For the tools that couldn't be refurbished, Home Depot or Ridgid provided the latest generation Ridgid tools as compensation.  Took a bit of pressure to tell them that I then needed new sets of 18V batteries to accompany the 18V tools, but they provided it all.

While warranty service at Home Depot wasn't at all the quick turnaround of Festool service, I can't help feeling like the Ridgid LSA isn't the best deal ever!  If you remember to register...

 

[gunnyr]

I've got the selection narrowed down to two contenders.

1. DeWalt DWE7491RS
2. SawStop Jobsite Pro
.
.
.
Does anyone have some experience with either of these saws and if so, do you recommend one over the other? Should I just limp along with my track saw until one of the other companies releases their Sawstop killer? Is it penny wise and pound foolish to even think about something other than a Sawstop?

I recently my DeWalt 7491RS with the SawStop Jobsite Pro earlier this year.  I am a site based interior trim carpenter and cabinet maker.

I have three table saws at this point;

[list type=decimal]
[*]DeWalt 60v that stays on my truck every day and gets used often.
[*]Vintage UniSaw that is in my garage at home and sees occasional use.
[*]SawStop Jobsite Pro that stays mostly in my shop and goes on the job site as needed.
[/list]

Thoughts on SawStop vs Dewalt:

• The dust collection on the SawStop is far superior. 
• Changing from the riving knife to the blade guard is easier on the DeWalt. 
• The SawStop seems more powerful. 
• The one turn blade height on the SawStop is neat but not a game changer.
• The table is larger on the SawStop, but again, not a game changer.
• The bevel adjustment on the SawStop is far superior to the Dewalt.
• I prefer the rack and pinion fence adjustment on the DeWalt.
• Neither of them have a miter gauge that is worth using.
• On board storage of accessories is better on the SawStop.
• You will get great service from either saw.

I recommend the SawStop, the dust collection and the safety of the machine have won me over.

 

[tomk]

Thanks everyone for all of the great information.

Looks like it is time to dig deep into the wallet and go with the sawstop. I can live without the extra capacity being that I have a track saw. Fixing up an old model sounds like a fun project. I just don’t have the dedicated space in the garage. I am just a hobbyist so if I lost some fingers it would have a major impact on my day job. The funny thing is that I’ve never had a close call on a table saw but I have had some with my sliding miter. I thought I saw a rumor that the kapex might get a blade brake which would be interesting.

 

[Packard]

The Metabo has a 35" rip capacity.  Other than that, I don't know much about it.
https://www.metabo-hpt.com/us/main-...obsite-table-saw-w-fold-roll-stand-metabo-hpt

The Rousseau PortaMax saw stand will convert any portable saw to a 27" rip capacity.  But adding it makes it as expensive as a contractor's saw.

https://www.aconcordcarpenter.com/rousseau-portamax-2745-table-saw-stand.html

A comparison review favored Saw Stop.  Pricy, but a cut above: https://www.toolboxbuzz.com/head-to-head/best-portable-jobsite-table-saw-head-to-head/
https://www.protoolreviews.com/sawstop-jobsite-table-saw-review/

 

[jeh]

If buying new and safety is paramount buy the SawStop. All portable saws suffer from sub-par fences in terms of flex and/or length, which are ok for smaller board lengths, but not so much for longer ones. If used on most if not all of the stands they have some movement even if the ground is perfectly flat. The added safety of the SawStop offsets these shortcomings.

 

[Packard]

According to this review, the fence on the SawStop was just 0.008" out of parallel with the miter slot, and the blade runout was less than 0.008".  So that probably matches most of the contractor saws out there, and is probably fine for almost all woodwork.

What I would miss it the 48" rip capacity that I have on my current saw.  Calculating larger than 27" or 35" rips means subtracting and building in a tolerance for the blade width. I have enough problems just using a ruler.  That would be a headache for me.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
The funny thing is that I’ve never had a close call on a table saw but I have had some with my sliding miter.

US CPSC noted this in a three-month study:

"Based on the same follow-up investigations (October 1, 2001 – December 31, 2001), an estimated 14,300 injuries (CV = 0.12, n = 225) were treated in U.S. hospital emergency rooms for injuries associated with stationary saws: table saws (74%), miter saws (13%)*, band saws (9%)*, and radial arm saws (4%)* for this 3-month ...."

Because the Kapex's hold-down clamp is so user-friendly, I use it in 95% of my cuts. My hands are never ever placed within the area marked "danger zone" (8" from the blade?) when the saw is running.

For smaller objects, I use a hold-down jig or cross-cut ZCI jig. (Now and then, some YouTubers are seen in videos holding their work just a couple of inches from the blade...good luck to them.)

By the way, I highly recommend the Fastcap Mn Dollar stick.

 

[tomk]

Snip.
The funny thing is that I’ve never had a close call on a table saw but I have had some with my sliding miter.

US CPSC noted this in a three-month study:

"Based on the same follow-up investigations (October 1, 2001 – December 31, 2001), an estimated 14,300 injuries (CV = 0.12, n = 225) were treated in U.S. hospital emergency rooms for injuries associated with stationary saws: table saws (74%), miter saws (13%)*, band saws (9%)*, and radial arm saws (4%)* for this 3-month ...."

Because the Kapex's hold-down clamp is so user-friendly, I use it in 95% of my cuts. My hands are never ever placed within the area marked "danger zone" (8" from the blade?) when the saw is running.

For smaller objects, I use a hold-down jig or cross-cut ZCI jig. (Now and then, some YouTubers are seen in videos holding their work just a couple of inches from the blade...good luck to them.)

By the way, I highly recommend the Fastcap Mn Dollar stick.

Yeah the miter saw intuitively seems much safer than the TS. Good to see that data backs up that assumption. The problem is that people don't always follow the directions. I never knew what these marks were next to the pictogram until recently (No fingers past this line!). The Dewalt hold down clamp is so terrible that the saw practically begs the operator to violate the rules. You can also see in the image that I circled the result of one of my "close calls" - a chunk of aluminum is missing and my fence is bent. 

View attachment 1

 

[Packard]

My table saw has blind-sided me twice.  Once with a "kick-up" and another time with a kick back.  In both cases I was using a push stick--a commercially available one.

The problem with plastic push sticks is that they flex and store energy and then release it.  In both my instances I needed to go to the hospital for minor stuff (and a tetanus shot).

I now make my push stick from MDF with a design that holds down the surface as well as push.  The mdf gets chewed up, but does not store energy. 

I have a radial arm saw and that is supposed to be more dangerous than either the chop saw or the table saw.  I keep the bearings adjusted tight so that it does not ride up the stock and attack.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
The Dewalt hold down clamp is so terrible that the saw practically begs the operator to violate the rules.
Snip.

I suppose the poorly-designed or non-user-friendly miter saw clamps do serve one purpose: To protect the saw manufacturers from potential lawsuits if they aren't included as part of the saws they sell.

 

[Bob D.]

Snip.
The Dewalt hold down clamp is so terrible that the saw practically begs the operator to violate the rules.
Snip.

I suppose the poorly-designed or non-user-friendly miter saw clamps do serve one purpose: To protect the saw manufacturers from potential lawsuits if they aren't included as part of the saws they sell.

What I find funny (but really not) is that DeWalt had a very good hold down clamp years ago on the DW708. It holds tight, does not slip, is quick to adjust, and is easy to take off and on. I don't know why they have not used it on all their miter saws since. I have the DW708 and also the DCS361 Cordless SCMS which came with a POC hold down.

It appears they are still available under DeWalt part number DW153650-00, but I do not know it fits any other saws than the DW703/706/708.

 

[RussellS]

US CPSC noted this in a three-month study:

"Based on the same follow-up investigations (October 1, 2001 – December 31, 2001), an estimated 14,300 injuries (CV = 0.12, n = 225) were treated in U.S. hospital emergency rooms for injuries associated with stationary saws: table saws (74%), miter saws (13%)*, band saws (9%)*, and radial arm saws (4%)* for this 3-month ...."

That seems very odd.  I would estimate many more miter saws are used in the USA than table saws.  Every construction site building houses or remodeling has one or two or three miter saws at least.  Maybe one table saw too.  Just seems like miter saws are more heavily used in the USA.  So should be more injuries.  Even if the table saw is way more dangerous, just the more usage of the miter saw should propel it to the top of the injury list as a percentage of total injuries.

 

[Bob D.]

A miter saw almost forces both your hands to be busy somewhere other than where the blade is. One is on the trigger switch and the other usually has a grip on the workpiece. That one hand is the one most at risk of course.

I was surprised to see that the RAS came in at 4%, not that far behind bandsaws. RAS use is so rare anymore that I would have thought an even lower score because their numbers are dwindling.

 

[ChuckM]

"That seems very odd.  I would estimate many more miter saws are used in the USA than table saws.  Every construction site building houses or remodeling has one or two or three miter saws at least.  Maybe one table saw too.  Just seems like miter saws are more heavily used in the USA.  So should be more injuries.  Even if the table saw is way more dangerous, just the more usage of the miter saw should propel it to the top of the injury list as a percentage of total injuries."

On the SawStop website, 65,000 is mentioned as the no. of injuries caused by the table saws annually in the States. I have seen two other US reports that put the table saw at the top of the list of stationary machines in terms of no. of injuries/accidents recorded.

 

[kevinculle]

We recently moved into a new house in a new development so plenty of opportunity to see crews at work and the tools they use.  The roughing crews are working predominately with hand circular saws as much of the rough construction now is placing and joining prebuilt wall modules and most of their cutting is trimming I-joists to length (not an SCMS job at 14"+ wide and 25'+ long) and end cuts on subflooring and OSB sheathing.  Trim crews and flooring subs tend to carry several SCMS and always a portable jobsite table saw, so on the production side the table saw is still an everyday machine.  When you watch them at the table saw it's easy to see the risks...rip cutting without a fence is common, guards are never seen and the saw is often on the ground or on makeshift stands so working ergonomics are far from good.