Timstool plans never got but have paid for!!

[mino]

CONTEXT!!!
I was referring to Beaver Tools which is still in existence: if it had refused to deliver, its sales link should be removed, too.

I don't know if Timtools' business is still in existence, and whether he has refused to do anything or not; I only know from the posts exchanged here that he is nowhere to be heard from (for whatever reason). Note all my posts above: I never mentioned anything about refusal on the part of Timtools. [blink]

Taken.
The trigger was ".. the ongoing honey trap .." hence switching from a (non-raised) allegation of a crime into a confirmed crime narrative. That is a common technique in media when mob rule is sought so I am very attentive to that, to the excess so in this case.

I still stand by my note/message though.

This whole thread was carried in the "confirming a crime which was not even alleged to begin" direction. I see these "shortcuts" becoming a standard modus operandi in the US/CA/UK media lately and I see that as a very very bad thing. People get their lives destroyed this way.

Not sure what that means exactly, but it is a pretty big flaw to take people's money and not deliver.
...

Fully agree there.

But I tend to put a huge non-equal sign between -active- malice and an -inaction- be it for one reason or other. Accused lack of management skills or any other ability like computer literacy included.

I see as -active- malice when one -knows of- a problem -can- solve it and -decides- not to. That plus creating a problem intentionally.

One should give the benefit of the doubt so can enjoy one when One inevitably fails to fulfill someone else's expectation.

 

[allthegearnoidea]

CONTEXT!!!
I was referring to Beaver Tools which is still in existence: if it had refused to deliver, its sales link should be removed, too.

I don't know if Timtools' business is still in existence, and whether he has refused to do anything or not; I only know from the posts exchanged here that he is nowhere to be heard from (for whatever reason). Note all my posts above: I never mentioned anything about refusal on the part of Timtools. [blink]

Taken.
The trigger was ".. the ongoing honey trap .." hence switching from a (non-raised) allegation of a crime into a confirmed crime narrative. That is a common technique in media when mob rule is sought so I am very attentive to that, to the excess so in this case.

I still stand by my note/message though.

This whole thread was carried in the "confirming a crime which was not even alleged to begin" direction. I see these "shortcuts" becoming a standard modus operandi in the US/CA/UK media lately and I see that as a very very bad thing. People get their lives destroyed this way.

Not sure what that means exactly, but it is a pretty big flaw to take people's money and not deliver.
...

Fully agree there.

But I tend to put a huge non-equal sign between -active- malice and an -inaction- be it for one reason or other. Accused lack of management skills or any other ability like computer literacy included.

I see as -active- malice when one -knows of- a problem -can- solve it and -decides- not to. That plus creating a problem intentionally.

One should give the benefit of the doubt so can enjoy one when One inevitably fails to fulfill someone else's expectation.

You know that FOG is a cut above the normal tool/trade forums when modus operandi is wheeled out in conversation. Particularly apt given this thread has descended into a discussion about Timstool's mens rea.  [tongue]

 

[multiblades]

If you placed your order using Pay Pal go to their website and open a Dispute with the seller.
As soon as you open a dispute with a seller Pay Pal puts a hold on your payment if your payment remains in his account.
If the money is gone Pay Pal have access to a vendor's checking account.

You can open a dispute within 180 days of the payment date.
Go to your Resolution Center and click Report a Problem.

 

[Keifer]

If you placed your order using Pay Pal go to their website and open a Dispute with the seller.
As soon as you open a dispute with a seller Pay Pal puts a hold on your payment if your payment remains in his account.
If the money is gone Pay Pal have access to a vendor's checking account.

You can open a dispute within 180 days of the payment date.
Go to your Resolution Center and click Report a Problem.

I experienced the exact same issue sometime last year.
Opened a dispute with PayPal.
They gave the vendor (Tim) time to respond, but even they didn't get a response.
I got a refund.

Other than being disappointed, and a bit concerned for Tim (don't know him, but have enjoyed his content), it worked out without any real hassle.

 

[Spandex]

Surely the sheer number of complaints we see on here are a clear sign that Tim is no longer monitoring any of the email addresses associated with the sale of these plans. People are paying, because the website has been left active, and will never receive anything.

Yes, it's unlikely that Tim is sitting at home rubbing his hands together, laughing at all the money he's stolen. Something has either gone wrong with an automated system, or Tim forgot to remove the purchase links and now doesn't give it any thought. But the reasons are irrelevant. Any links to his plans should really be taken down, or edited to make it clear that no one should send any money.

If Tim is genuinely still hoping to sell these plans, and something has just gone wrong, then the links can all be re-instated when he clears up the issue.

Just because the FOG isn't responsible for problems with these plans doesn't mean they shouldn't help their users by making it clear there is a problem.

 

[mino]

...

+1

An idea for moderators to not waste too much time and still address the issue:

How about adding a "Forum NOTE" line to Timstool signature stating that "This user is no longer active on the forum and that any offers or contacts provided may no longer be valid." or something to that tune.

I believe this can be written as a standard text format - so can be used in future situations like this. That will also avoid disclosing any semi-private information the Forum moderators may have that should not be made public.

I can imagine such a "facility" being useful also when some prolific member has a life accident of any sort etc. etc.

I can even imagine adding this line automatically for any user who did not log-in for - say - 2 years or similar. The user can then remove it easily, should one return at a later time.

[member=6573]FOG Moderator[/member]

 

[TSO_Products]

Hello admirers of Tim Wilmots work,

I will reach out to Tim again. I discussed the idea of having TSO host his plans (like we do for Ron Paulk and Dave Stanton). At the time he wasn't sure which way he wanted to go. Given what has transpired I will renew the dialog and post here.

Give this time, please.

Hans