Tiny House build - circular saw advice for newbie - TS55 or HK55 or..

[carpenterchick]

Hi all

Got great advice on this forum a few years ago for a sander

Now I need to help my 11 year old build a tiny house.. and I'm thinking of getting a circular saw. Sort of veering towards the TS55 or HK55. Something fairly basic.

Requirements -

Need to cut 2 x 4, and sheets of plywood and siding... Have never built a tiny house.. so those of you who have let me know if I'm missing out some crucial saw related task!

Have a power outlet nearby, so cordless or not I don't care really. The only reason I'd go for cordless is if it's exactly as powerful as corded and costs about the same.

I'll be cutting in the garden, not on a workbench, though in a pinch I could cobble up a flat surface with some trestles and a flat bit of board for the plywood cutting...

I want the saw to be on the economical side. I built stuff max once or twice a year so can't justify something with bells and whistles. And I have little storage space..

Safety is very important as I'm a newbie, and I read the Dewalt circular saws have something that makes them safer than Festool, but that Festool has this safety thing as an additional extra. Can anyone comment on this?

Can someone compare a Dewalt and Festool with fences overall and give me a bit of advice on what they think I should get (hey I know I'm on a Festool forum.. 

Re rails -
I'm confused by all the rail options.... for the standard sheet of plywood.. (the only large thing will be cutting) what do I get? Can I get a shorter rail and cut from both sides..or is that stupid..

To save money i don't need a systainer if there is an option to buy the tool without. And I have the HEPA vacuum which I use with my sander.

Sorry for all the questions.. I did a ton od research.. but am not sure as a newbie what features I should actually be asking about.

And if anyone knows of any sales or repurposed tool website I'd like to know that too

Stay safe and thank you all for your advice - have learned a ton from this forum even though post very rarely!

 

[nvalinski]

For a project like this, depending on use, you may want to pass on Festool. You can get a very good corded circular saw for around $100. You can essentially replace a "track" with two clamps and a long rule as a straight edge. Combined with a speed square, you can cut up dimensional lumber fairly quickly as well (though a miter saw may be faster if you have the budget for that too).

If you want something better for plywood specifically, a track saw (Festool TS 55 or Makita would be my recommendations) then becomes maybe more valuable in that the straight edge is exactly on the line of the cut you want to make. A 55" rail would be the minimum I'd go.

The HK55 would be great for your type of application if you were doing it a lot, but exceptionally pricey. It does run on the longer rails that the TS does (ie: the 55" for cross cutting plywood), but also has the FSK rails that essentially act as a replacement for the normal circular saw + speed square guide. Ideally, I suppose you'd end up with a 55" FS rail and a shorter FSK rail to do both long plywood cuts and dimensional lumber cross cuts.

Essentially, you'll have to weigh if the $150 non-festool setup is acceptable vs. the HK setup for $750. Personally, for a project like this, I'd go for the cheaper option, particularly if it's not your day to day job.

 

[six-point socket II]

If you plan to make long, straight cut outs (think windows, door ...) a plunge/track saw will be significantly safer to use over a common circular saw.

If it has to be Festool for this project, is another question. What's the longterm outlook? More DIY? Might be an option then.

I'd probably cut the 2x4 to length with a hand saw, easier/safer than to "jig something up" for using the plunge/track saw if you're still new to the saw.

Using a plunge/track saw on the ground, think of some sacrificial board beneath the material you want to cut. Some will say a few 2x4 will do, for a beginner I'd recommend something that will support the full sheet you're going to be working on/ cutting. You can use a high dense insulation plate for example.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[carpenterchick]

Thank you Oliver and nvalinski - good points that make me also realize I made a mistake in the subject line.. Track saw not circular saw..

It definitely doesn't have to Festool as you say.. I was tempted by this one  $390 (I know it doesn't include the tracks.. which would add $160-210 because I'm also planning to make a table and a sofa out of white oak that have glued up..and with a table I care more about the precision of the cuts. I have used only hand tools (good Japanese saws) with the exception of the Festool sander..but newbie at power tools. (think Gibbs on NCIS!)
https://www.festoolproducts.com/pow...l-201359-hkc-55-cordless-track-saw-basic.html

On the other hand..if you point me in the direction of a basic track saw (with track) that performs decently for much less moolah than Festool.. I might get that.

I can't tell the difference between the HK and TS series.. one poster said the HK needs to be used on a table not 'in the air' or 'foot holding 2 x 4 down'..

Thank you

 

[Sourwould]

For framing, I'd recommend a Makita 5007f. Great saw.

 

[six-point socket II]

The product you have linked is a cordless, bare tool. You would have to also buy batteries and a charger.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[FestitaMakool]

Hi,
For what you are describing, a HK is obvious.
In short the differences are:

HK acts as a circular saw, but can also be used on regular tracks as Festool’s plunge saws.
With the FSK rail, you have a handheld speed square or a miter saw built in.
HK saws can plunge, and differentiates from the plunge saws that it locks at the depth you set, so you need not to hold the saw pushed down, which are of importance for your kind of setting.
Handheld HK is the most sensible and safest, most convenient and easiest for typical construction work. But, it can do precise work to, very close to a TS saw.

TS saws main purpose is on a track, cutting sheet goods. It is a no no on freehand and cutting framing materials unless well supported stock underneath on a cutting table.

Both machines spin a blade. So the blade, material and the technique is what differs. Most would do equally well for finer work with a HK. So the HK is the go to for all round use.

Edit: Makita does also have a couple of circular saws that are track compatible, but they do not have the FSK rail advantage of cutting mitre cuts freehand. One of them is this:https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/XSH10Z

 

[Svar]

Corded will always be cheaper than equivalent battery powered.

Festool HK55 would be ideal for what you are describing, but not most economical for occasional use.

Lately some manufacturers started to offer regular circular saws that can ride on Festool style tracks, for examplehttps://www.homedepot.com/p/Evoluti...e-and-Multi-Material-Blade-R185CCSX/310242575 Not suggesting this one, but you get the idea. I think Dewalt has something similar.

 

[Svar]

Edit: Makita does also have a couple of circular saws that are track compatible, but they do not have the FSK rail advantage of cutting mitre cuts freehand. One of them is this:https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/XSH10Z

That's too big!

Try this, also track compatible:https://www.amazon.com/Makita-XSH08...e/dp/B07RD8BZJD/ref=psdc_552922_t1_B084H15NBL

 

[mrboult]

For me the easy answer is the HK55. With one or two FS1400 rails and an FSK rail.

It is a safer and more versatile saw and the cut quality is 90-95% as good as the TS55. I wouldn’t go battery unless you really want as the power is way less (I have the battery HKC55)

As a professional carpenter and furniture maker I really appreciate my TS55, but if I was a hobbyist only, I’d happily march along with just an HK55.

Reasons the HK is a better saw:
- Free hand cutting without rails is possible
- Cross cutting FSK rails can be used
- Retractable blade guard adds safety
- With the HK55 locked at its set cutting depth the saw is safer in use than the non-locking plunge of the TS55.
- Great blade/cut visibility

Reasons the TS55 is a better saw
- less splintering along the cut line. (mostly noticeable on the waste side of the cut even without the extra green splinter guard in place)
- Better plunge action
- More accurate and quicker cut depth setting
- better dust collection (HK is only about 70-80% as good as TS)
- more stable/strong mitre adjustment (2 locking adjustment knobs vs 1 in the HK)

As others have said, a much cheaper circular saw, speed square and straight edge could do the same for much less. . . But we all know you don’t need festool. Right?

 

[mrboult]

Corded will always be cheaper than equivalent battery powered.

Festool HK55 would be ideal for what you are describing, but not most economical for occasional use.

Lately some manufacturers started to offer regular circular saws that can ride on Festool style tracks, for examplehttps://www.homedepot.com/p/Evoluti...e-and-Multi-Material-Blade-R185CCSX/310242575 Not suggesting this one, but you get the idea. I think Dewalt has something similar.

A Metabo in the same vein (FS track compatible). . .
https://www.dtc-uk.com/metabo-circular-saw-circular-saw.html#tab-label-description

 

[Peter_C]

OP do you have ANY cordless tools already? If so what battery platform and what do you have for battery sizes? (Many happy home owners already own a cordless drill and impact.) Also good to put your country of location up so folks can better help you.

My thought would be two saws. A circular saw for building the tiny house and a tracksaw for building tables etc. You can make straight cuts with a circular saw and an edge guide if it is a one time deal, or even pay someone to make a cut or two. Paying someone will always be cheaper than a $400us+ saw.

A 6 1/2" cordless will make pretty much all the cuts necessary on a tiny house (Depending on design). This should be on the battery platform you already own, or pickup a corded version. Ebay has saws in new or as new condition for cheap, as does Craigslist. Harbor Freight in the USA has cheap saws that with a good blade will get the job done. Heck I'd give you a corded 7 1/4" saw for free if you were my neighbor, and if I actually had access to my spare saws. Few people use corded saws anymore, but a cord has the benefit of never having batteries go bad, and they are cheaper.

Some folding saw horses that you can clamp the 2x4's to will help get cutting straight safely with a speed square. A sacrificial top like 2x4 scraps on the saw horses means you can rip the plywood on them. A straight edge clamped on to the plywood gives you a way to make a perfectly straight cut. Of note most people doing rough construction just snap a line and guide their saw by hand. Perfection is not required most of the time.

I'd recommend watching some shed building videos which will give you a basic idea of the project you are wanting to undertake.

 

[Birdhunter]

The idea of cutting 2x4s free hand with a circular saw makes my skin crawl. I know professional carpenters do it, but not me.  I’d either use a jigsaw or a good hand saw and have the wood both supported and clamped. Circular saws can kick back really hard.

With furniture making in the future, I’d buy the Festool with the full length rail for breaking down plywood ands shorter rail for most work. It’s expensive, but you get precision and great dust collection.

I like cutting plywood of sheets of hard foam that I get at Home Depot. I use 6 foam sheets under a 4 by 8 Piece of plywood. I usually use another piece of foam to kneel on to save my knees.

 

[carpenterchick]

Hi all

You guys are great! particular thanks to Peter C,  Mr B (really helpful comparison), Svar  , Festita Makool, Oliver and sourworld .

I really liked the suggestions for non Festool tools - am not brand loyal when loyalty doesn't make sense (;

Mr B, your comparison was very helpful in untangling the confusion I had in my head.

The fences are expensive.. but I dont' see how I can cut a sheet of plywood in straight line without one.

One thing that makes me veer toward Festool is resale value. Seems much higher than Dewalt and Makita and if we do move back to Europe in a few years I think someone would be happy to buy my lightly used saw and sander (;

I suffered as a kid from parents who'd always buy the cheapest thing which they ended up replacing again and again and ended up spending more than if they'd bought good quality the first time.. so that's my slightly pro Festool prejudice, although I acknowledge it's not fair to say Dewalt and Makita are worse quality, just different and am trying to be impartial and just get the tool I need.

Peter C. I'm from Europe but living in the USA so 110V for now!

Have cordless Ryobi drill, charger and a bunch of Dewalt batteries that fit the Ryobi too. Use it a lot. If you think corded track saw is not worth the hassle and I should go cordless then tell me  

Thank you all - I love this forum.. am a frequent reader unlogged in but have learned so much from the discussions..

Any more advice.. keep it coming!

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

I would look at the new Makita cordless circular saw.  It’s a 36v and has the ability to be used on the guide rail.  It’s also cheaper than the hk saw and has the ability to use inexpensive circular saw blades. 

 

[carpenterchick]

Thank you Birdhunter and emsburger. Birdhunter for a very good point about safety - I may be able to get away with having the lumber hard cut the 2 x 4 (just bought the 8' length ones for the floor and they are PT.  I a terrified of kickback.. and I'll def look into the Makita emsburger - thanks for the suggestion.

I do use a chainsaw with every safety precaution I can think of - mask/goggles/muffs/ anti vibration gloves/anti cut glove on left hand, and chaps and my husband's steel toe boots (bit big on me!) . so the point being I do want to be able to use things if there is a safe way to do this. I too am a bit scared about 2 x 4 cutting 'foot on wood' as contractors do.. so I'm sure could manage it with my trusty Japanese saws.

Thanks again all

 

[Svar]

Regarding safety.
Track saws are generally safer as movement is limited to straight line.
Some circular saws in US have riving knife (Festool, Dewalt track saw, etc.) - another safety feature, but most don't have it. On HK55 its integrated into blade guard.
Today many have blade break, also something to consider.

 

[Birdhunter]

I managed to have my TS55 kick back. My fault, but I’m thankful my fingers and other body parts were well out of the way.

 

[mrboult]

The idea of cutting 2x4s free hand with a circular saw makes my skin crawl. I know professional carpenters do it, but not me.  I’d either use a jigsaw or a good hand saw and have the wood both supported and clamped. Circular saws can kick back really hard.

With furniture making in the future, I’d buy the Festool with the full length rail for breaking down plywood ands shorter rail for most work. It’s expensive, but you get precision and great dust collection.

I like cutting plywood of sheets of hard foam that I get at Home Depot. I use 6 foam sheets under a 4 by 8 Piece of plywood. I usually use another piece of foam to kneel on to save my knees.

Valid points. It’s easy for practiced professional carpenters to shout about getting equal results with cheaper tools, but it takes experience and skill to achieve festool results with ‘inferior’ equipment. And more time (which is a big reason those who could do it just as well with cheap tools, still buy the expensive ones)

 

[mrboult]

I managed to have my TS55 kick back. My fault, but I’m thankful my fingers and other body parts were well out of the way.

Yeah, TS saws can kick!!

Not if used well, and not often (due to the rail, like others said), but plunge too fast or with a bit of a twist, or lifting a little mid cut, and WHAM!
I’ve seen enough people’s rails with the scars of a kick back. . I was so proud mine didnt have any - until about 5 years in. . Proving it can happen to anyone

It’s the ‘continually Active plunge’ that makes the plunge saws kick back so so horrendous when it happens, and why I think the HK an ultimately safer saw as it locks at the cut depth.
I’ve been using circular saws for 30 years and no kick back worries me, but a kick back from the TS is something to be wary of.