TKS 80 and Dado set

[Gary P]

Hi. Will the new TKS80 table saw be able to take a Freud dado set?

 

[AlexThePalex]

Nope.

 

[semenza]

Hi Gary,

    Welcome to the forum!

      Won't hurt to have it posted again.

Seth

 

[rocky100370]

Is the US finally getting the TKS80??????????

 

[AlexThePalex]

Nope.

 

[rocky100370]

I think Festool should give us the option of ordering one.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I think Festool should give us the option of ordering one.

If the US had 220v like Europe it probably wouldn't be a big deal, but now Festool has to redesign the saw with a 110v motor. And then sell it in America as a competitor to SawStop, which they also own.

US buyers have the option to buy the SawStop saws. 

 

[threesixright]

I think Festool should give us the option of ordering one.

If the US had 220v like Europe it probably wouldn't be a big deal, but now Festool has to redesign the saw with a 110v motor. And then sell it in America as a competitor to SawStop, which they also own.

US buyers have the option to buy the SawStop saws.

And they learned a lesson with the kapex.

How was it? fool me once, shame on you...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DeformedTree]

I think Festool should give us the option of ordering one.

If the US had 220v like Europe it probably wouldn't be a big deal, but now Festool has to redesign the saw with a 110v motor. And then sell it in America as a competitor to SawStop, which they also own.

US buyers have the option to buy the SawStop saws.

Festool can sell the 230V model here, once again, we have 220V power.  Mafell sells their table saws as 230V here.  I don't own one, but plenty of wood workers have big table saws that are 220V.

The problem isn't the lack of 220V power in the US (since we have it), the problem is companies like Festool who don't seam to understand we have 220V and are fine with owning 220V tools (and in some cases would prefer it).

Festool over thinks bringing tools to the US, just bring stuff as is.  How much US regs come into play, we probably will never know. I know some folks bring it up, but then you have companies like Mafell that will sell you the german model of the tool, so clearly they have found they can sell stuff here with zero changes.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Festool over thinks bringing tools to the US, just bring stuff as is.  How much US regs come into play, we probably will never know. I know some folks bring it up, but then you have companies like Mafell that will sell you the german model of the tool, so clearly they have found they can sell stuff here with zero changes.

Mafell sells like 0,0000001% of what Festool sells in the USA. And in Europe.

Mafell has a business model where they don't even want people to know them or buy their tools. Nobody has ever heard of Mafell, except a few nuts like us on these forums.

Selling 220v tools does not work in the USA, and Mafell is the last company you should bring up to prove otherwise.

 

[rocky100370]

Still makes no sense. At least offer it to buyers. Some of us are 220v ready. Especially since most buyers who have a lot of Festool equipment want to stick with the brand.

 

[DeformedTree]

Festool over thinks bringing tools to the US, just bring stuff as is.  How much US regs come into play, we probably will never know. I know some folks bring it up, but then you have companies like Mafell that will sell you the german model of the tool, so clearly they have found they can sell stuff here with zero changes.

Mafell sells like 0,0000001% of what Festool sells in the USA. And in Europe.

Mafell has a business model where they don't even want people to know them or buy their tools. Nobody has ever heard of Mafell, except a few nuts like us on these forums.

Selling 220v tools does not work in the USA, and Mafell is the last company you should bring up to prove otherwise.

Almost no one knows of Festool in the US either.  Yes, they are far more known then Mafell, but it doesn't say much.  Some showing up on this old house is the first that many folks will ever see or hear of them.  Festool has only been in the US officially for like 20 years.

The core point is still, 220V is not a problem.  Unless someone is planning to only use their tools in bedrooms/living rooms only, folks have access to 220plug.  And adding one to a basement/garage if they don't have one is general not an issue.

Further, if someone bought a sawstop saw in the US (the units we have, not the festool), they sell them in 220V for some models. 

220V is not a problem here.  Clearly the problem is Festool thinks as you are that it somehow doesn't exist here.  Festool would have no issue selling 220V Kapex, CTs, etc in the US. 

 

[six-point socket II]

Personally, I think it's a lot simpler in case of the TKS 80. They don't want to interfere with it in what is the original "SawStop" market, for now at least.

I have an OT question: If you have a 230V circuit/panel wired professionally in the US, it has two wires considered hot and a ground wire, right? That's were typically 230V household appliances are plugged in, correct?

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Michael Kellough]

Personally, I think it's a lot simpler in case of the TKS 80. They don't want to interfere with it in what is the original "SawStop" market, for now at least.

I have an OT question: If you have a 230V circuit/panel wired professionally in the US, it has two wires considered hot and a ground wire, right? That's were typically 230V household appliances are plugged in, correct?

Kind regards,
Oliver

Yes. There are two wires carrying 110/15/20 volts at 60 cycles that are out of phase with one another, and the neutral. Together they supply about 230 volts (depending on the grid). In the breaker panel the two hot lines are distributed in an alternating pattern so that a circuit breaker can contain two linked breakers connected side by side and gather current from both hot wires.

 

[DeformedTree]

I have an OT question: If you have a 230V circuit/panel wired professionally in the US, it has two wires considered hot and a ground wire, right? That's were typically 230V household appliances are plugged in, correct?

2 Hots, a Neutral and a Ground.    The Neutral and ground our Bonded together at 1 point in the system (typically the main panel).  For 110V supplies you have a hot and the neutral.  Since the neutral is bonded to the ground, it has 0VAC but carries full current the same as the 2 hots, ground is 0VAC 0amps.  On the 220V circuits, the neutral is unused. But ground is still there, the circuit is using 2 of the 110V lines that our out of phase to get the 220V.  Works out the same as pure 230V systems were one side is referenced to ground. Thus why we can plug stuff from Europe directly in.  Unless something has a real problem with 60hz vs 50hz, but most stuff you find is 200-240VAC  50/60Hz.

Generally everything is color coded.  The Hots are Black and Red, Neutral White, ground is Copper or Green.  Use the same wiring for both 110 and 220,  but when you wire up a 220V circuit, you typical wrap the white wire in red tape to help make clear it's 220V.  We also have dual voltage circuits, these have 220 and 110, so all 4 wires to the same plug.  These are common for items like dryers that might have 220V heaters, but controls/motor might be 110V.  These plugs are now common for welders, EV chargers, etc. In some places they are now required in new construction in garages.  They are also handy as you can install one, and then later use them as a place to install a small sub-panel and have 220/110V circuits.    Wire in the US for residential wiring is NM-B,  comes most often in 12-2, 14-2 or 12-3, 14-3  (the later number is the number of power conductors, so you have either a black and white or a black, white, red.  Both have a ground.  If you are building a garage/shop, you typical wire it up with a mix of 110V and 220V plugs, plus some 220/110V plugs to cover all the bases. 

Big saws, welders, air compressors, etc are typically 220V here, and course lots of hardwired in stuff is 220V.  Which is why in the end, tools being 220V really isn't an issue.  Only if you are doing a lot of work within the finish space of a house could it become a challenge, and that is where you would go looking for the dryer plug as it's going to the easiest to access 220plug,

 

[six-point socket II]

Thank you very much [member=297]Michael Kellough[/member] & [member=68063]DeformedTree[/member] !

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[AlexThePalex]

I don't know, I have the feeling there might be more to it both technically and marketing wise.

For instance the difference between 50Hz and 60Hz. All European tools are made for 50 Hz and might not react favourably to 60 Hz. Not every electronic part is universal, and some might even depend on the correct Hz for timing issues. I remember how a few years ago Serbia and I believe Montenegro had a dispute of power distribution over the grit and as a result Serbia disconnected a few electricity plants from the European grit. It had the effect that the 50 Hz went down a minute amount but because electric clocks used the 50 Hz as timing reference, all 220v clocks run a bit slower.

And then there's the American mindset that they don't like things pushed on them by foreigners. We've had a few discussions about it here on the FOG. Festool originally sold all their tools as metric, remember? I am pretty sure they did their marketing research in the USA and got negative responses that their tools weren't imperial. Hence the switch. I think selling 220v tools would be a big step for lots of Americans. Sure, the specialist on this forum here wouldn't have a problem, but the general public can be quite conservative.

 

[six-point socket II]

Please take this as a thought - nothing more.

What I was wondering about is the fact that the TKS 80 absolutely needs to be grounded for the safety feature to work. (Unlike all the Class II machinery Festool and its competitors make)

So what I was thinking earlier (but threw the thought out, because ultimately SawStop is from the US and works in the US), might there be a liability issue that, depending on circuit/panel used, there would be no grounding, thus the safety feature wouldn't work? Or if it was hooked up to a panel/circuit that was not done to code/ by a professional.

(Remember: Festool explicitly says that the TKS 80 can't be used with the new SYS-Powerstation because there is no classic grounding.)

Anyone know how this handled with the actual SawStop saws?

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[DeformedTree]

Alex,

While you are right that there is a general trend of some folks in the US not wanting ideas from outside, stuff like this isn't much of an issue. I won't tangent this with the metric discussion, but remember lots of folks are very angry about the removal of metric festool tools. Festool skipped the step of giving folks the option.

Most issues with 50/60hz I would say are in the past, when it wasn't much of a consideration (less international trade), and motors were built with less consideration of this and often didn't have cooling designs that considered different speeds. My German spec CT26 list 50/60hz right on it.  Pretty sure there are no countries using Schuko plugs that are 60hz.

Oliver,

I don't think grounding is an issue.  Like anyplace else, we have grounded tools and double insulated tools (no ground). While all new (since the 1960s) outlets 110V or 220V have the ground, it's not required that tools use it, but it's there. Most tools are double insulated anymore, but if a tool does require a ground, that very much is in place. 

I haven't looked at saw stops in person, but they sell them in 110V, 220V, and 3Phase here.  So they clearly have the basis covered when it comes to how the tech works.

In the end, if the TKS 80 never comes to the US, I think one could go to the various theories that have been put out there such as other saw stop products being in the market.  Far as 230V tools in general, there is nothing stopping festool from offering them.  I really think Festool has over thought this.  Just sell or offer as an option 230V, Metric tools in the US for those who want them. It may come down to dealer network not wanting more models, but if it was something like you can get them thru a subset of dealers, I think folks would be happy. I would happily buy a metric 230V OF2200 if they sold it here.

 

[nero]

I think Festool should give us the option of ordering one.

They do, you just have to be creative. I was using mine here in California not more than an hour ago...