To drywall with 4500 RPM or not to drywall with 4500 RPM ?

[six-point socket II]

Hi!

Strange title, I know - please let me explain.

Weeks ago at the Festool Roadshow I had the pleasure of testing the DWC 18-2500 and DWC 18-4500. I should have asked back then to try the 2500 from the wood booth also at the drywall booth (with metal substructure) and vice versa for the 4500 - but, stupid me, I didn't.

I  have a private renovation job coming up that will require a lot of drywalling in both variants - with wooden substructure and with metal substructure. I can't tell for sure - but I guess it's going to be more metal substructure than wood substructure

Now I'd like to hear from the experts who have done this time and time again:

Do I go with the 4500 RPM model which will be obviously better suited for the self-cutting screws that go into the metal studs, and live with 2 Nm less torque on soft screw-joints and 4 Nm less torque on hard screw-joints. Or will 2500 RPM be more than sufficient for the "metal work" and I get a little more torque - which is basically never a bad thing.

I'd like to buy only one DWC

Kind regards and thank you very much,
Oliver

 

[Sparktrician]

If you're talking drywall, go for the 4500 model.  The 2500 model has much more torque and can wring off drywall screws and/or overdrive them.  The 2500 model is great for deck screws and the like where the torque does a bunch of good, but not for drywall.  And don't forget to calibrate the drive tip so that it skips out of the screw just after the screw dimples the drywall. 

 

[six-point socket II]

Thank you very much!

Well, it happened, magically... My finger clicked, I got an E-Mail, and I guess by Tuesday the DWC 18-4500 in the mail  [scared] [eek] [scared] [eek] [scared] [eek] [big grin] [big grin]

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[six-point socket II]

[drooling] [drooling] [drooling] [drooling] [drooling] [drooling] [drooling] [drooling] [drooling]

[attachimg=1]

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[AJCruise]

Oliver,
I got the 2500 model a little while ago. Like you, I couldn't decide between the 2 variants until I tried them both out at a Festool demonstration. I agree with Sparktrician, that the 4500 is the one to go for if you are using metal sub-structure.
However, I chose the 2500 for the flexibility, and that I wouldn't be using it into metal that often.
You do need to use the appropriate fastener for the job. The fine thread screws are not for wood use, they require a lot more rotations to drive them in and, at a lower speed and higher torque on the 2500, can snap. Using a coarse thread instead, eliminates the problem.
I have cycled thousands of screws through mine already, into drywall, OSB, plywood, and softwood. I have even used stainless steel screws, which are prone to snapping, and only once have I wrung a screw (into a knot).
The DWC is a brilliant piece of kit, it has never mis-fed using the magazine attachment.
Just one piece of advice I was given, by my Festool rep, make sure you use good quality screw strips. The cheap ones use softer plastic and tend to distort during the cycle, which is is the main cause of jamming. Also set the screw length rail adjustment correctly.
Best of luck with your new tool.
Regards, Alan

 

[bobfog]

The DWC screwdrivers have largely sailed under my radar because I don't do drywall hanging and very rarely do decking. But to read that there are two separate models when a simple switched gear box would have achieved a twin speed tool that suited both tasks is a little irksome and shows how little regard Festool have for their customers.

 

[Kev]

The DWC screwdrivers have largely sailed under my radar because I don't do drywall hanging and very rarely do decking. But to read that there are two separate models when a simple switched gear box would have achieved a twin speed tool that suited both tasks is a little irksome and shows how little regard Festool have for their customers.

AGREE !

I have mains and 12V Protool versions and I'm seriously irked at the 2500/4500 choice in DWC. I've been holding back till they get the spring tension sorted on the new "revision". I'll probably go 2500 and see how I feel.

 

[six-point socket II]

Thank you very much for the additional thoughts and input! [member=26406]AJCruise[/member] [member=60286]bobfog[/member] [member=13058]Kev[/member]

As you know I decided on the 4500 yesterday night. Overall I think it makes the most sense for me as I have basically everything else already available in my toolbox - so going with a true specialist tool can't be wrong. I'm super happy, finally a magazine fed driver  [big grin] [big grin]

But, I also do agree that it is interesting that two machines were designed and built instead of one which can switch gears. Is there a reason behind this that can be shared? [member=57769]TylerC[/member] [member=101]Festool USA[/member]  (I feel super stupid that this never really occurred to me when I was at the roadshow...)

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[peter halle]

By the way, it has been common for manufacturers to offer screw guns like this in the two different speed and torque ranges for years or decades.  For instance I have a high speed one for drywall and then a lower speed higher torque one attached to my Quick-Drive for plywood floors.  Both are Makitas.

Peter

 

[six-point socket II]

Interesting! Maybe because I never looked into this before I haven't noticed. Thanks [member=1674]Peter Halle[/member]

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[AJCruise]

I think that Festool have got this right having the 2 models.
The 4500 is designed to drive fine thread screws, at high speed, through a thin metal frame.
The 2500 is designed to drive coarse thread screws, at lower speed, through solid substrates, which requires more torque.
These machines are specialist tools, aimed at a specific professional trade. The last thing a pro needs is another switch that could possibly get jammed (considering the amount of dust generated). They are designed to cycle 1000's of screws per day, everyday.
The same argument could be used for sanders. Why have different models with 3mm and 5mm random orbit modes?
The less parts there are in a machine, the less likely they are to fail, with extended use.

Regardless,  I think you made a good choice for what you need to do.
If this is your first of the 18V models that you've got, it's a slippery slope you're now on!
I got the PDC at the same time, (I know, it's got more switches than anything else out there, but it's built like a tank and it gets thrown around the place on the job!) but I am already planning on getting most of the other tools in the line.
Regards,
Alan

 

[six-point socket II]

I think that Festool have got this right having the 2 models.
The 4500 is designed to drive fine thread screws, at high speed, through a thin metal frame.
The 2500 is designed to drive coarse thread screws, at lower speed, through solid substrates, which requires more torque.
These machines are specialist tools, aimed at a specific professional trade. The last thing a pro needs is another switch that could possibly get jammed (considering the amount of dust generated). They are designed to cycle 1000's of screws per day, everyday.
The same argument could be used for sanders. Why have different models with 3mm and 5mm random orbit modes?
The less parts there are in a machine, the less likely they are to fail, with extended use.

Regardless,  I think you made a good choice for what you need to do.
If this is your first of the 18V models that you've got, it's a slippery slope you're now on!
I got the PDC at the same time, (I know, it's got more switches than anything else out there, but it's built like a tank and it gets thrown around the place on the job!) but I am already planning on getting most of the other tools in the line.
Regards,
Alan

Thanks Alan!

Makes perfect sense to me!

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Kev]

I think that Festool have got this right having the 2 models.
The 4500 is designed to drive fine thread screws, at high speed, through a thin metal frame.
The 2500 is designed to drive coarse thread screws, at lower speed, through solid substrates, which requires more torque.
These machines are specialist tools, aimed at a specific professional trade. The last thing a pro needs is another switch that could possibly get jammed (considering the amount of dust generated). They are designed to cycle 1000's of screws per day, everyday.
The same argument could be used for sanders. Why have different models with 3mm and 5mm random orbit modes?
The less parts there are in a machine, the less likely they are to fail, with extended use.

Regardless,  I think you made a good choice for what you need to do.
If this is your first of the 18V models that you've got, it's a slippery slope you're now on!
I got the PDC at the same time, (I know, it's got more switches than anything else out there, but it's built like a tank and it gets thrown around the place on the job!) but I am already planning on getting most of the other tools in the line.
Regards,
Alan

Can't agree on this .. A two speed setup is incredibly common and reliable - even those offered by Festool. The DWC is a rework of a line offered as Protool from way back - I have Protool mains and 12V versions and little has changed. It wouldn't be unusual to be sheeting an area with mixed framing materials and a 2 speed/torque driver would be useful. Just because manufacturers have offered two separate tools in the past doesn't make it right.

 

[Frank-Jan]

It's not the substrate that matters, but what you are attaching. The higher rpm works fine when attaching drywall to wood, you just can't screw down osb or ply. I have an old 12v protool dwc and a really old makita mains powered (1999 or so). I abuse the makita to screw down subfloor sometimes, (which is also a higer rpm model, the lower rpm makitas could take longer screws back then)

The low torque 12v protool can also sink fine threaded screws through drywall into wood, but it you have to drive it in one go, it doesn't have enough power to drive a partially set screw further. (actually, it can't do that with coarse threaded screws either).

 

[peter halle]

I don't own either of the Festool products mentioned but I am glad to see that they didn't do a compromise.  The now discontinued Ti-15 which was a compromise between an impact and a drill and did not seem to have the appeal that I am sure any tool manufacturer would have wanted.

Sometimes it is necessary to tailor the tool to the job at hand. 

Peter

 

[bobfog]

I think that Festool have got this right having the 2 models.
The 4500 is designed to drive fine thread screws, at high speed, through a thin metal frame.
The 2500 is designed to drive coarse thread screws, at lower speed, through solid substrates, which requires more torque.
These machines are specialist tools, aimed at a specific professional trade. The last thing a pro needs is another switch that could possibly get jammed (considering the amount of dust generated). They are designed to cycle 1000's of screws per day, everyday.
The same argument could be used for sanders. Why have different models with 3mm and 5mm random orbit modes?
The less parts there are in a machine, the less likely they are to fail, with extended use.

Regardless,  I think you made a good choice for what you need to do.
If this is your first of the 18V models that you've got, it's a slippery slope you're now on!
I got the PDC at the same time, (I know, it's got more switches than anything else out there, but it's built like a tank and it gets thrown around the place on the job!) but I am already planning on getting most of the other tools in the line.
Regards,
Alan

Can't agree on this .. A two speed setup is incredibly common and reliable - even those offered by Festool. The DWC is a rework of a line offered as Protool from way back - I have Protool mains and 12V versions and little has changed. It wouldn't be unusual to be sheeting an area with mixed framing materials and a 2 speed/torque driver would be useful. Just because manufacturers have offered two separate tools in the past doesn't make it right.

Absolutely right.

There's a duality where when Festool (Faster-Easier-Smarter tool) innovate or make complex tools like the 4 gear PDC it's the best thing since sliced bread. When they're behind the curve it's justified by simplicity = reliability.

It's 2016, to say a gear box on the DWC would be a compromise doesn't pass muster.

 

[six-point socket II]

I'd like to link this thread:http://festoolownersgroup.com/festo...dirt-yton-in-gear-switch/msg463235/#msg463235

Fine and aggressive/abrasive dust can cause switches to fail/ being blocked. I have seen it before, hence my post in that thread - That's also why I said it makes sense to me, but of course, your mileage may vary

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[six-point socket II]

It's not the substrate that matters, but what you are attaching. The higher rpm works fine when attaching drywall to wood, you just can't screw down osb or ply. I have an old 12v protool dwc and a really old makita mains powered (1999 or so). I abuse the makita to screw down subfloor sometimes, (which is also a higer rpm model, the lower rpm makitas could take longer screws back then)

The low torque 12v protool can also sink fine threaded screws through drywall into wood, but it you have to drive it in one go, it doesn't have enough power to drive a partially set screw further. (actually, it can't do that with coarse threaded screws either).

Thank you very much for the additional input!

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Phil Beckley]

Hi
It also comes down to the premise of machine for an application hence the two models being available for timber and metal stud - both are treated as separate applications. The same way as the PDC and DRC are for different applications.
rg
Phil

 

[bobfog]

Hi
It also comes down to the premise of machine for an application hence the two models being available for timber and metal stud - both are treated as separate applications. The same way as the PDC and DRC are for different applications.
rg
Phil

It's a very tenuous premise though.