To TSC or not to TSC

[RC]

In my usual spring induced shopping frenzy I'm getting a head ache thinking if I should take advantage of the Festool 18V battery discount and get a TSC55 and a PDC 18/4 or should I instead get a Kapex.

To make things just that much more complicated I really need neither but both options have intangible benefits to them:

- My current Bosch GCM 10 S is just a hair too tall to fit under my stairs with my CMS-GE and it lacks working dust collection and lasers : -> Kapex has the same cut capacity, is 7cm lower when folded (54cm vs. 47cm), alot less deep (78cm vs. 50cm) and a little bit wider (68cm vs. 71.3cm), has precise bevel adjustments, lasers and working dust collection and a work piece clamp that doesn't take half a knuckle with it every time you actuate it.

I would probably still need to use the Bosch GTA3800 stand for the Kapex if its attachment rails fits on a Kapex since I don't have a place to stick the UG-Set nor really another MFT table either as much as I'd love to have the Festool extensions.

- The TSC would let me keep my TS55 permanently in the CMS-TS module and use it for cutting sheets down and doing the odd cut that can't be done on the CMS-VL+Incra LS setup.

- The PDC would probably be the most redundant item since I have a CXS (98% of time good enough) and a Ti15 Set already, but I really don't need a BHC18 for anything since my house is not from concrete and you need to purchase two gadgets to get the batteries thrown in and the additional -10% discount.  [tongue]

Probably I'll have hell of a time selling any of these items to the missus, but probably a Kapex would be an easier sell if I managed to sell off the old Bosch whereas the TSC+PDC option will just add to my pile of tools...

 

[peter halle]

BUY THE KAPEX.  BUY THE KAPEX.  BUY THE KAPEX. BUY THE KAPEX.

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

Buy your wife a vacation
...or,
  Sell the Bosch and get the Kapex.

 

[Kev]

I really don't understand this funny little word you're using ...

"or"

... you seem to be using it in a strange context too - in a place where you'd normally use "and" [huh]

The TSC dilemma is going to strike here soon too, but it have a free floating TS55 and a TS75 in my CMS (hey - there's another option for you!)

A BHC, MTC, PDC mega bundle is what you actually need! [smile]

I don't think you'd regret the KAPEX in any way, but the UG extensions would give you some interesting options with the MFT and CMS too. So don't rule it out the UG stuff.

On the PDC - it is a weapon and I do use mine regardless of the fact that I have C15, Ti15, CXS (and others, including another Protool corded drywall gun that I purchased on impulse last night - quite cheap).

Anyway, if there's no KAPEX discount happening and you're being teased by 18V's .. you will succumb. We all know it [big grin]

 

[SittingElf]

I'm taking advantage of the Germany sale on the new 18V units. It is actually much more than 10% when you consider the extra batteries thrown is as well.

I'm getting the TSC55, BHC, and PDC. I will have to sell the battery chargers that come with the units due to voltage, but I figure sell three and should have enough to buy two 120V units.

Hell of a sale! [tongue] .... and then back to the USA the first week of June and plan to take advantage of the Domino sale as well. [big grin]

Kapex planned for my next break in Aug/Sep time frame.... or if a sale suddenly pops up!

Cheers,

Frank

 

[RC]

Well, apparently the battery deal isn't as sweet as you would think... Been emailing with the dealers in Germany and Finland about it and they seem rather disappointed with the wording of the campaign on Festools sites.

Apparently what the campaign really is is basically a 120€ discount per machine starting from 2nd machine which is done in the form of selling a Plus-version of the second tool for the mostly unlisted 'basic -version' price.  The Basic-version is a no batteries or charger included version, which value is apparently calculated as -120€ from the Plus-versions price. Funnily enough the few Basic versions that have a price like the BHC the price difference is larger than 120€ (174€), but it sounds like you don't get that but just the -120€ as a calculated discount...

So unlike the Festool sites let you understand you don't get extra two batteries per machine, but just the Plus-version of a machine discounted by 120€ per additional machine (which btw. is 30€ less than a single battery costs retail).

There are also limitations on both which models are eligible for the discount and having to purchase Plus-versions instead of Set or XL Set versions of the tools i.e. missing out on the Set discounts on bundled accessories (at least in Finland).  

So frankly getting a 120€ discount on a tool, missing out on 100€ bundle discount on an XL set of the PDC (the included depth stop & angle head would cost 260€ bought separately vs. the additional 150€ for the XL set over Plus pricing) for example doesn't make it a superb deal if you want any additional components over the Plus-version.  [blink]

If you really got two extra batteries thrown in for a real value of 148€ per battery i.e. almost 300€ and you get which ever set you like, reap the benefits of set prices and actually get a couple spare batteries to double your device lifetime before having dead batteries in your hands...  [unsure]

Now I'm really wishing there was a real discount going on the Kapex...

Edit: Apparently atleast in Germany you are able to have one of the tools what ever set you like as long as the second tool is Plus-version, which coincidentally happens to fit my PDC XL Set + TSC55 Plus combination... Just wanted to correct this so I'm not barking up the wrong tree. I still think a real two extra batteries would be a better deal in the long run.

 

[SittingElf]

Here's the deal in print.  Exact specifications.

I already have the XL 18/3 drill, and I've been told that all the attachments are compatible with the PDC, so no need to duplicate.

[attachimg=#]

Cheers,

Frank

 

[RC]

Yes exactly, as you see in the descriptions it is basically a Plus-model description with the additional statement in bold 'ohne akkupack' which means 'no battery' in German and the prices listed are abt. 120€ less than the Plus-models retail. (also stated as the value for two 'free' batteries in the fine-print on the 18V microsite).  

So yes, you kinda get two batteries free but you don't - i.e. if you buy two machines you get a total of four batteries and you get the second machine 120€ cheaper than normal Plus version and you cannot purchase any Set models.

If you read festool.de website about this it definitely gives you the impression that when you purchase any two normal priced 18V machines or more you receive two additional batteries per additional machine i.e. you would end up with 6 batteries for two machines (2x with machine #1, 2x with machine #2, 2x freebies), 10 for three, etc. But this is not the case.

So yes, if you are happy with just the Plus models of every 18V tool you crave and don't plan on getting any of the Set accessories later you're golden - Hey, it's still 120€ off, right?

But if you don't have any previous compatible accessory stuff already and plan on getting any of the extra chucks at retail it will quickly eat away the discount benefit... if I bought the PDC 18/4 at the deal price (-120€) and added the angle chuck at retail price on top @ +150€ and took into account that the Plus model is 100€ less than the Set version which includes the angle chuck I would be

Plus price = 499€
18V discount = -120€
Retail angle chuck = +150€
----------------------------------
Total = 530€ vs. PDC 18/4 Set Retail price of 606€

--> there's only 76€ left of the 120€ discount in reality... And its even worse if I would like to get both the angle and the depth stop chucks since they retail for 250€ combined and the XL Set which includes both is only 150€ more expensive than the Plus-model i.e.

Plus price = 499€
18V discount = -120€
Retail angle & depth stop chucks = +250€
----------------------------------
Total = 630€ vs. PDC 18/4 XL Set Retail price of 647€ --> a whopping discount of 17€!  [eek]

So why would I put 1000€+ money down upfront to get a 17€ discount on two machines over just buying the XL model at retail... Not really my idea of a lucrative discount!

As I stated above IF the campaigne was as the impression given on festool.de website i.e. you receive two additional free batteries per machine of your choice (as they state on the microsite) there would be no lost benefit from being stuck to the Plus models instead of being free to purchase what ever set you like and still getting a tangible benefit of two extra batteries IN ADDITION to the ones that come with your set of choice.

Now that would be a 300€ discount per additional machine and really make it worth putting money down up front.

Then it would also be up to you if you want to optimize price (i.e. go for the Plus versions or even the BHC Basic version only and omit the second charger) or go for XL Set-versions and get the set discounts on  accessories as well. Regardless which way you'd swing you would still get the actual benefit of receiving two real tangible extra batteries and not the discount etcha-sketcha I've deciphered above.

Both retailers I've emailed about this campaign were cursing quite verbally that Festool refuses to amend their marketing texts to reflect the actual campaign even thou they have been notified about the issues the retailers have with customers like me reading their campaign site & brochures and expecting to be on the receiving end of 300€ worth of extra batteries and being free to mix & match which ever versions of 18V machines we like.

Edit: Apparently atleast in Germany you are able to have one of the tools what ever set you like as long as the second tool is Plus-version, which coincidentally happens to fit my PDC XL Set + TSC55 Plus combination... Just wanted to correct this so I'm not barking up the wrong tree. I still think a real two extra batteries would be a better deal in the long run.

 

[Kev]

I'm hoping all the bonus talk at least translates in some small way to an interesting promotion in the next couple of months when the MTC55 and BHC18 hit down under.

I'll probably kick myself for buying 2 extra 18V 3Ah batteries (they were cheap) the other day.

I feel that a lot of the promotions are very much geared to the "new to Festool" community these days and don't work well for the already seriously invested Festool customer.s It's great to build new business, but it'd be a bad strategy to assume that current customers are committed customers.

 

[SittingElf]

Well, for what it's worth... I finalized all my orders with my German Dealer for the next three weeks before I depart back to the USA permanently. All items to be in hand between 22 May, and 2 June.

I thought about it, but in the end, I DID order the TSC55, BHC, and PDC as planned. I'll get four free 18V, 4.2Amp batteries along with the 10% discount on the Basic units, and my dealer is making me a deal for three of the four TCL3 chargers included with the units that I can't use in the USA. It's a worthwhile deal for me since the three items are all NAINA for the foreseeable future. (I was concerned about the Basic version of the PDC, but then realized that all the heads included with my 18/3 Drill will fit the PDC, so don't need duplicates!)

I also bit the bullet and ordered the Conturo Edge Bander along with the accessory kit and the insert and table for a MFT/3, as well as glue pucks in both colors.  Will use the same step-up transformer that I will be using for my Vacu-Clamping system, also purchased in Germany late last year.

Ordered 10 Toolies, 10 Festool Swiss Knives, 5 Festool 2-meter folding measures, Festool SDS bits, Wood and Metal standard bit sets, a German-made chisel set (8-piece), and a few small accessories for the BHC and TSC55. (The BHC accessory allows the use of non-Festool SDS bits)

Finally, completed my purchase of the ASA 5000 boom arm and Manual Energy Box which will be delivered to my German House on 2 JUNE, just in time for the military to pack it with our other household goods for shipment to the U.S.

I'm a happy camper, though my bank account has suffered severely by about $10,000! [eek]

Cheers,

Frank

 

[RC]

Congratulations Frank, with that kind of expenditure I'm sure your dealer would throw in his shirt if you requested it ;-P

My annual spend of abt. 3000€ in tools & Festoys pales in comparison.

Sounds like you're all set for retirement or a serious change of profession...

 

[leakyroof]

BUY THE KAPEX.  BUY THE KAPEX.  BUY THE KAPEX. BUY THE KAPEX.

  wow, how subtle of you Peter.... scrolling words, what WILL they think of next [blink]

 

[Kev]

Well, for what it's worth... I finalized all my orders with my German Dealer for the next three weeks before I depart back to the USA permanently. All items to be in hand between 22 May, and 2 June.

I thought about it, but in the end, I DID order the TSC55, BHC, and PDC as planned. I'll get four free 18V, 4.2Amp batteries along with the 10% discount on the Basic units, and my dealer is making me a deal for three of the four TCL3 chargers included with the units that I can't use in the USA. It's a worthwhile deal for me since the three items are all NAINA for the foreseeable future. (I was concerned about the Basic version of the PDC, but then realized that all the heads included with my 18/3 Drill will fit the PDC, so don't need duplicates!)

I also bit the bullet and ordered the Conturo Edge Bander along with the accessory kit and the insert and table for a MFT/3, as well as glue pucks in both colors.  Will use the same step-up transformer that I will be using for my Vacu-Clamping system, also purchased in Germany late last year.

Ordered 10 Toolies, 10 Festool Swiss Knives, 5 Festool 2-meter folding measures, Festool SDS bits, Wood and Metal standard bit sets, a German-made chisel set (8-piece), and a few small accessories for the BHC and TSC55. (The BHC accessory allows the use of non-Festool SDS bits)

Finally, completed my purchase of the ASA 5000 boom arm and Manual Energy Box which will be delivered to my German House on 2 JUNE, just in time for the military to pack it with our other household goods for shipment to the U.S.

I'm a happy camper, though my bank account has suffered severely by about $10,000! [eek]

Cheers,

Frank

Did you really like the in table setup of the Conturo? That's the bit that really put's me off ... it appears extremely under thought in the material I've watched, but you've seen it in the flesh I take it??

Kev

 

[RC]

Kev: Your comments have a bad omen m8  [tongue]

Uh, oh... So I just ordered the PDC XL Set + TSC55 Plus package... History repeats itself... I guess next I'll be lining up for that Kapex anyway...

 

[SittingElf]

Did you really like the in table setup of the Conturo? That's the bit that really put's me off ... it appears extremely under thought in the material I've watched, but you've seen it in the flesh I take it??

Kev

It actually is pretty effective. My dealer has a full setup in the store, and Festool recently started selling a completed MFT/3 tabletop already cutout for it, rather than just a template that you had to cut out of MDF.  The unit works well, and very easy to adjust. The Conturo locks into the unit, so no futzing around with settings.  Wasn't cheap, but not overly expensive for the unit. 

The only thing that gives me pause, is that you have to switch out the table top on an MFT/3 to use it. I'm not likely to dedicate a full MFT/3 just for the Conturo, but then again, you never know.  Might do once the table top on my current MFT is worn and needs replacement. Otherwise, I'll have to switch tops whenever I want to use the Conturo.

You definitely need the accessory kit with the KA65. It has all the pieces necessary to work with any material, as well as the magazine unit, cutter, and scraper.  I just need a MFK 700 router to complete the whole set that I'll buy in the USA for a 110V unit, and I'm ordering the new base for it that is specifically designed for trimming banding flush. (NAINA)

Finally, my dealer told me that Festool will be coming out with other colors for the glue pucks. Currently only available in white, and light brown. (Hmmmm... wonder if they'll make pink! [big grin]).  Mostly likely the first new will be black.

I'll let you know how it works in August when it gets to my house in Florida. It will share a 110V-220V 5KW step-up transformer with my Vacu-Clamp system, which is also 220V 50/60Hz.

Cheers,

Frank

 

[Kev]

Kev: Your comments have a bad omen m8  [tongue]

Uh, oh... So I just ordered the PDC XL Set + TSC55 Plus package... History repeats itself... I guess next I'll be lining up for that Kapex anyway...

It's bad isn't it.

In the past 5 days I've purchased ...

1 corded Dura Drive
1 PS300 + blade set (I was going to get a cheap Protool jigsaw to dedicate to the CMS-OF, but the Trion is much better - now I have 4 jig saws)
2 bright green heavy duty Plug-it leads
3 impact driver twin box bit sets
1 Protool 13x wood bit set
1 Short CMS dust extractor adaptor
2 18V 3Ah batteries
20 1000 packs of collated drywall screws
1 21mm hose for hand sanding
6 Surfix oll replacement tin kits

... and I'm stupidly close to a yes a VCP360

(now that's a "working week" I still have the danger of the weekend)

Oh, I also ordered these router bits because they were cheap:

Carbitool T1016 x 1
Carbitool T306 x 1
Craftmaster 12FPB558 x 1
Craftmaster 12PL2 x 3
Craftmaster 12RG198 x 2
Craftmaster 12FER68 x 1
Craftmaster 12CLRB668 x 1
Craftmaster 12CLB668 x 1
Carbitool T5708B 1/2 x 1
Carbitool TC12B 1/2 x 1
Carbitool TC16B 1/2 x 1
Carbitool THR60B 1/2 x 1
Carbitool T1510 x 2
Carbitool T508B 1/2 x 1
Carbitool T510B 1/2 x 1
Carbitool T1408 x 1
Carbitool T1409M x 1

... and it's Friday night here, I've had a couple of glasses of wine with a nice dinner and I have several browser windows open (Amazon, Ebay, etc)

There's no hope for us buddy!!! [embarassed] [sad]

In my defence, everything but the Plug-it leads were on special.

 

[Kev]

Did you really like the in table setup of the Conturo? That's the bit that really put's me off ... it appears extremely under thought in the material I've watched, but you've seen it in the flesh I take it??

Kev

It actually is pretty effective. My dealer has a full setup in the store, and Festool recently started selling a completed MFT/3 tabletop already cutout for it, rather than just a template that you had to cut out of MDF.  The unit works well, and very easy to adjust. The Conturo locks into the unit, so no futzing around with settings.  Wasn't cheap, but not overly expensive for the unit. 

The only thing that gives me pause, is that you have to switch out the table top on an MFT/3 to use it. I'm not likely to dedicate a full MFT/3 just for the Conturo, but then again, you never know.  Might do once the table top on my current MFT is worn and needs replacement. Otherwise, I'll have to switch tops whenever I want to use the Conturo.

You definitely need the accessory kit with the KA65. It has all the pieces necessary to work with any material, as well as the magazine unit, cutter, and scraper.  I just need a MFK 700 router to complete the whole set that I'll buy in the USA for a 110V unit, and I'm ordering the new base for it that is specifically designed for trimming banding flush. (NAINA)

Finally, my dealer told me that Festool will be coming out with other colors for the glue pucks. Currently only available in white, and light brown. (Hmmmm... wonder if they'll make pink! [big grin]).  Mostly likely the first new will be black.

I'll let you know how it works in August when it gets to my house in Florida. It will share a 110V-220V 5KW step-up transformer with my Vacu-Clamp system, which is also 220V 50/60Hz.

Cheers,

Frank

Thanks Frank,

I suppose you could dedicate an MFT/3 as a station for Conturo, a couple of the swing up VacSys units and as a clamping station for a Leigh D4R ... then it wouldn't be just a white elephant waiting for you to edge something. Do you think the Conturo frame and the sliding supports would prohibit something like that?

You're worrying me with the pink glue pucks Frank, if you mix them up with your Hubba Bubba you're going to be in all sorts of pain [eek]

cheers,

Kev.

 

[Stephen B]

Kev: Your comments have a bad omen m8  [tongue]

Uh, oh... So I just ordered the PDC XL Set + TSC55 Plus package... History repeats itself... I guess next I'll be lining up for that Kapex anyway...

It's bad isn't it.

In the past 5 days I've purchased ...

1 corded Dura Drive
1 PS300 + blade set (I was going to get a cheap Protool jigsaw to dedicate to the CMS-OF, but the Trion is much better - now I have 4 jig saws)
2 bright green heavy duty Plug-it leads
3 impact driver twin box bit sets
1 Protool 13x wood bit set
1 Short CMS dust extractor adaptor
2 18V 3Ah batteries
20 1000 packs of collated drywall screws
1 21mm hose for hand sanding
6 Surfix oll replacement tin kits

... and I'm stupidly close to a yes a VCP360

(now that's a "working week" I still have the danger of the weekend)

Oh, I also ordered these router bits because they were cheap:

Carbitool T1016 x 1
Carbitool T306 x 1
Craftmaster 12FPB558 x 1
Craftmaster 12PL2 x 3
Craftmaster 12RG198 x 2
Craftmaster 12FER68 x 1
Craftmaster 12CLRB668 x 1
Craftmaster 12CLB668 x 1
Carbitool T5708B 1/2 x 1
Carbitool TC12B 1/2 x 1
Carbitool TC16B 1/2 x 1
Carbitool THR60B 1/2 x 1
Carbitool T1510 x 2
Carbitool T508B 1/2 x 1
Carbitool T510B 1/2 x 1
Carbitool T1408 x 1
Carbitool T1409M x 1

... and it's Friday night here, I've had a couple of glasses of wine with a nice dinner and I have several browser windows open (Amazon, Ebay, etc)

There's no hope for us buddy!!! [embarassed] [sad]

In my defence, everything but the Plug-it leads were on special.

 

[RC]

Aaand wait for it... I just bought a used Kapex 120 with the Kapex MFT table and table extension for 500€... So now I just need to dump my old Bosch mitre saw somewhere and somehow make a good case of ROI to the chair(wo)man... I'm slowly but surely running out of Festoys that I 'need' [embarassed]

I guess next time I get an urge to shop more green stuff I might go for a set of UG extensions assuming that they can be used with the Kapex/MFT combination as well [tongue]

 

[PreferrablyWood]

Aaand wait for it... I just bought a used Kapex 120 with the Kapex MFT table and table extension for 500€... So now I just need to dump my old Bosch mitre saw somewhere and somehow make a good case of ROI to the chair(wo)man... I'm slowly but surely running out of Festoys that I 'need' [embarassed]

I guess next time I get an urge to shop more green stuff I might go for a set of UG extensions assuming that they can be used with the Kapex/MFT combination as well [tongue]

Congrats on the nice price for the Kapex 120, I might do something similiar at some point..