to you Felder owners...

[HowardH]

I have a couple of Hammer machines and think they are great.  I'm still kicking around selling my K3 Winner to get the saw-shaper combo.  I  would stay with Felder as a company but I have two choices, the Hammer B3 or the Felder KF 500.  Is it worth the upgrade in price to get the Felder?  It's probably about 3 grand more but what is to be gained besides the X-roll table verses the ball bearing version in the Hammer?  I don't want to throw away money but if the value is there, I would strongly consider it. 

 

[jacko9]

Amortize the cost over the years you think you'll be using the machine to help you decide.

Jack

 

[Loren Woirhaye]

How "perfect" is the sliding wagon on the saw you have?  That's what Hammer does.

The x-roll table is "perfect", imo.  Whether you want or need that is another matter.

 

[junk731]

Howard I think it depends on your usage whether its a hobby machine or small professional shop. The machine is great if room is a concern but IMHO seperates rule. The X-Roll is superior  and the abilitiy to get 240 shaper hood is also a plus on the K500 Pro. The main complaint with a combo is the fact you have breakdown your shaper setup to use the saw and vice versa. Another thought would be that a lot of the accessories that work on the Hammers do not work on the X-Roll machines.

John

 

[HowardH]

Another thought would be that a lot of the accessories that work on the Hammers do not work on the X-Roll machines.

I thought of that.  I have the eccentric clamp and a couple of other things that I think would still work.  If I do the separates, I would need to sell my router table set up due to room considerations although with a shaper either way I still might do that anyway.  Going from a Ryobi BT3100 to a K3 helped me to understand the difference quality and power make and I would think I would experience the same thing with this step up.  I'm a hobbyist so I'm not too concerned about changeover time but on the other hand, it would be nice to turn around and step over to a machine that is already set up and ready to go.

 

[stvrowe]

I used to own a Felder CF741SP and IMHO, the X-Roll slider is one of the best sliding table systems on the market.  I have never used the Hammer but from what you describe, it sounds similar to the sliding table on my Minimax shaper.  The X-Roll is much smoother than the Minimax slider.  The Felder X-Roll has about the same smoothness (possibly better) as the Martin. 

That said, for $3K difference in price I would be looking for more than just smoothness in the slider.  It may be there in the shaper spindle system and shaper '250' fence system but that is something you will need to determine for yourself.  One lesson I have learned is that cheaping out on shaper fences is a decision you will soon regret.

Hope this helps,
Steve

 

[Kev]

Can't comment from ownership, but from a shopping with intent perspective the Felder gear is a level up across the board. That said, I can't say there's anything wrong with the Hammer stuff ... it's just obvious the Felder equipment is designed to run all day, every day in a production environment and the Hammer gear is engineering for a lesser duty cycle.

So I covet Felder, but I would buy Hammer personally - unless it was my source of income.

 

[junk731]

Howard another consideration is the additional cost of shaper cutters which includes types that can be hand fed and those that need machine feed. This means the necessary addition of a power feeder for safety. The power feeder in most cases help you produce a consistent cut with both types of cutters. To take advantage of your router bits you have to upgrade to a machine in the Felder 700 series which allows you to interchange the spindles.

John

 

[shed9]

So I covet Felder, but I would buy Hammer personally - unless it was my source of income.

This sums it up for me.

 

[cliffp]

I have recently taken delivery of a Hammer A3-26 and the quality is superb. I haven't seen a Felder machine for comparison but the Hammer machine is so well made it looks like a professional quality model.  I would be tempted to buy a Hammer and upgrade if I felt the need to - I've noticed that in the UK Hammer products tend to sell quickly for a good price so you wouldn't be losing a lot if you did trade up.

 

[Lbob131]

The list  price for the  Hammer  B3 basic  is £3222. Another 3 models  more expensive  again.
The Felder KF500  is  £4443.

The weight  of the  Hammer B3  is  350kg  and the  KF500  410kg.

 

 

[andyman]

The list  price for the  Hammer  B3 basic  is £3222. Another 3 models  more expensive  again.
The Felder KF500  is  £4443.

The weight  of the  Hammer B3  is  350kg  and the  KF500  410kg.
Any idea on K 700 panel saw cost?

 

[Lbob131]

Sorry no. They don't seem to give out the list  price for all the machines.

Log on to Felder in your area  and ask them for a quote.
http://www.ukfelder.co.uk/gb-en

Felder are at the NEC  in October. Might be some good deals on offer. 

 

[andyman]

I did earlier I'll let you know what they say

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Nothing worse then braking down a shaper set up and then trying to get back to it later. 

 

[HowardH]

Nothing worse then braking down a shaper set up and then trying to get back to it later. 

wouldn't that be more of a matter of anticipating and planning your workflow?  How much different is it than switching to a jointer from a planer and vice versa?  For example, I try to make sure I have all my face and edge jointing first before switching over to the planer mode.  It's not that big a deal to switch back, especially with the digital handwheel.  I can see where having separates becomes a big critical time advantage when you make your living at this but for a hobbyist, it becomes less critical IMO.  I use a router table and even with the big PC router, I still have to make multiple passes most of the time and having a 4hp shaper would mostly eliminate that. One might think the time savings on those operations would negate to some degree the change over and set up time loss.  Just a thought.

 

[Kev]

Nothing worse then braking down a shaper set up and then trying to get back to it later.

That's a thought that crossed my mind so much that I went into analysis paralysis and got all of the Festool CMS modules instead of a Hammer combo saw spindle!!!

Easily repeatable setups are a critical part of large or complex pieces of work.

If space wasn't an issue for me I would always go with individual machines.

 

[junk731]

Howard what you are saying is true in theory and sometimes actually works out that way, add wood into the equation and all hell can break loose. I have a good friend that is a retired hobbiest, anal with precision and finds the breakdown and setup multiple times frustrating. He is doing some detailed passes for a door set he making using the KF500. the wood didn't react the way the planning dictated and he had to remake the piece. It comes down budget and space for most in your situation. Just trying to give you a heads up to the potential plus/ minus.

John

 

[HowardH]

I got a bid yesterday for a KF500 with a few accessories, i.e. rolling carriage, mid-length slider, a few other things and the cost with tax and shipping was about $10k.  I think I could get between $4k to $5k for my current set up.  Shop space is definitely a consideration, even with a 3 car garage.  Of course, Felder green is much closer to Festool green so that's a consideration.  [big grin]  The Hammer version version is a couple of thousand less so I think I would be inclined to get the Felder version.  I like the tilting spindle so that would cut down a bit on the tooling cost.  It's a lot of money but it keeps me off the streets, so to speak.  My K3 slider rolls pretty darn smooth so can't even imagine how nice the Felder version would be.  Can you leave the tooling on the spindle and lower it under the table so all that has to be done is raise it again to the same place?

 

[stvrowe]

Can you leave the tooling on the spindle and lower it under the table so all that has to be done is raise it again to the same place?

Yes - if you don't have a height gauge, get a dial insert for the lift handwheel for repeatability.