Track saw safety: has anyone been injured with a track saw?

[cvining]

I've long considered getting a track saw, but a recent table saw injury has moved this to a much higher priority. I recently sliced off 12 mm from my left index finger. All my fault, of course. Mainly, I lost focus on the task at hand and was already thinking of my next step.

And yes, thanks, I'm healing well and the track saw is totally undamaged.

Now, I know all spinning sharp metal tools have risks. Maybe I'm just telling myself a story, but it sure seems to me track saws are inherently safer. Not a full table saw replacement of course, but from what I'm seeing I think I can do nearly everything I need to with a track saw.

So. What I'm particularly interested in is your opinions wrt to safety. And has anyone actually been injured using a track saw? The internets are lousy with sometimes gruesome table saw injuries but so far I've not seen a single track saw injury.

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[six-point socket II]

German Youtuber got pretty lucky when he did something stupid, had a hand behind the track saw lying on the track and then it kicked-back while plunging … Blade retracted fast, still bit him good. Really, really lucky … Again, also a case of user error/ own fault.

GRAPHIC / NSFW
=shared&t=494

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[cvining]

Yup, lucky guy. He could have lost all his fingers. Scary!

Thanks much for that.

 

[timwors]

I couldn't find much on this either. Personally I like to always have both hands on the saw at all times. For a new setup I also do a practice run along the track with the saw turned off, to make sure the cable/hose isn't going to snag on something or there isn't a clamp in the way.

With the saw tilted over to 45 degrees it is unstable and potentially dangerous (in my view). To avoid the saw tipping, your arms are also pushing the saw partly sideways, and potentially towards you. If the saw kicked back and came off the track, you could be potentially pulling the saw towards your abdomen. For this reason I find it best to be standing on the tilted side of the saw, thus pushing away from me.

I expect fairly obvious to most people but thought I'd share!

 

[peter halle]

Back when Festool would have their LIVE! events or when I was able to get around the Festool employees, I would love to talk with one of their well seasoned Regional Sales Managers - Larry Smith.  Both Larry and Bob Marino were involved with Festool virtually from the beginning here in North America.  Larry would often during his demos intentionally create a kickback situation.  I always cringed when I saw and heard it happening.  Larry would then casually unplug the saw and proceed to explain to the viewers how kickbacks occur, how the plunge saw reacts and the reduced risk of injury.  Privately we would talk and he would explain that during the sales meeting and get togethers he would always ask if the others had heard of a serious injury. He told me on more than one occasion that the answer was always no.

Times change and with the increased popularity and also the varying experience level of the users I doubt the answer would still be no today.  Nothing i perfectly safe.

Regarding cutting with the blade tilted / making a bevelled cut - there is an accessory that I will usually use to deal with the off balance weight - the Parallel Guide.It is used as an outrigger on either side of the blade - one side as a hand hold and the other as an anti-tip device.  Worth considering if you do those types of cuts often.

[attachimg=1]

Peter

 

[bobtskutter]

I've had my TS75 remind me it's a beast a few times - always user error.  The worst was when I plunged into a knot in the wood and the saw titled forwards lifting the base off the track, took a small nick out of the track.

I now keep two hands on the saw and use the kickback stop if I'm doing anything other that cutting plywood.

Regards
Bob

 

[timwors]

Regarding cutting with the blade tilted / making a bevelled cut - there is an accessory that I will usually use to deal with the off balance weight - the Parallel Guide.It is used as an outrigger on either side of the blade - one side as a hand hold and the other as an anti-tip device.  Worth considering if you do those types of cuts often.

That's a great suggestion - thanks.

 

[cvining]

Great comments everyone! Thanks! Just the sort of feedback I was looking for.

 

[smorgasbord]

Youtuber Wittworks had a kickback on a TS75 during a plunge cut (unintentional) that stopped him from continuing the test. Not physically hurt, though, just scared sh*tless:
=T228oGkSPLi59327&t=865
Starts at 14:25

 

[twistsol1]

A number of years ago I had a group of high school kids in my shop building the obstacle course for the robotics team. One of the kids plunged my TS-75 into some plywood far too quickly and kicked back and he took the handle of the saw to his chin. No injury other than his pride, and he did the same thing a second time later in the day.

The old shop teacher at the school retired and the new one doesn't believe that the school's woodshop is a personal kingdom so now we've been able to work there for the past few years. 15 people in my 600 square foot shop was a bit much.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

The only times I have ever heard of anyone having issues with kickback is when they are plunging into the material instead of being fully plunged before making contact.
This does need to happen sometimes, which is the point of the anti-kickback stop.
As I understand it, this is also the reason for the new technology that is incorporated into the latest models of the track saws. They are no longer equipped with riving knives, but a switch (of sorts) that is supposed to shut the saw down, when it lifts off of the track.
The TS55 and TS60 are so equipped..... the TS75 is not a part of that update.

 

[Lincoln]

Our Festool rep sliced his finger when demonstrating the TSV60. Nothing too severe, but he was very lucky that the blade was almost fully retracted.
I see many on youtube that plunge their saws in such an awkward, jerky way, that is asking for kickback.
There are two things in particular to look out for, in my opinion:
- the plunge, as mentioned above.
- And, DON'T run the saw on the track with one hand, while the other hand is following along behind, holding the offcut. I see this so often, it makes me cringe. Puts your whole hand in the firing line if there's kickback.

 

[Huey52]

I'm one of those who first used a tracksaw/table for most everything, as doing a lot of plywood projects and simply preferring to "bring the saw to the work." I'm far less concerned with injury from same, but semper vigilans.

Historically more concerned with tablesaw injuries, until I got a SawStop (regardless also vigilant and choreograph my routine). There's of course a good time and place to "bring the work to the saw."

 

[cvining]

semper vigilans indeed!

And thanks to everyone for this discussion! Just the sort of comments I was hoping for.

My big take away so far: Certainly injuries are possible with track saws, so it's still important to be vigilant.

Keep the stories coming!

 

[Peter Kelly]

I've had the TS 75 jump backwards on me when entering a cut when ripping the edge of an 8 ft board using the 2700mm rail. That saw in particular needs the 118"/3000mm rail when working with anything 96", the sole plate of the saw must be fully on the track and the blade needs to be all the way plunged when entering the cut.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Back when Festool would have their LIVE! events or when I was able to get around the Festool employees, I would love to talk with one of their well seasoned Regional Sales Managers - Larry Smith.  Both Larry and Bob Marino were involved with Festool virtually from the beginning here in North America.  Larry would often during his demos intentionally create a kickback situation.  I always cringed when I saw and heard it happening.  Larry would then casually unplug the saw and proceed to explain to the viewers how kickbacks occur, how the plunge saw reacts and the reduced risk of injury.  Privately we would talk and he would explain that during the sales meeting and get togethers he would always ask if the others had heard of a serious injury. He told me on more than one occasion that the answer was always no.

Times change and with the increased popularity and also the varying experience level of the users I doubt the answer would still be no today.  Nothing i perfectly safe.

Regarding cutting with the blade tilted / making a bevelled cut - there is an accessory that I will usually use to deal with the off balance weight - the Parallel Guide.It is used as an outrigger on either side of the blade - one side as a hand hold and the other as an anti-tip device.  Worth considering if you do those types of cuts often.

[attachimg=1]

Peter

Great tip Peter!

 

[TSO_Products]

What a great example of the value of participating in the FOG - posting AND reading!
thanks for everyone's contribution, beginning with the OP's original question [smile]

On my way home from a week at Marc Adam's School I picked up a little book at the Indy airport on MINDFULNESS. I find it has a lot of application in Woodworking not just life in general.

Hans

 

[Packard]

I got my first (and only) table saw (Contractors’ II, circa 1997) without ever having stood in front of a working saw. 

It came with a page or two safety instructions, mostly about leaving the guards in place. 

It does seem reckless of manufacturers to sell potentially dangerous machinery with no instructions at all.

At the minimum, they should have an instructional video included with each piece of equipment. 

At any rate, it does seem reckless of the manufacturers to not be held responsible for some basic instructions on the use of their potentially dangerous equipment.

If your niece or nephew wanted to use your wood working equipment, would you supervise or just tell them to “read the first few pages of the instruction manual”.

I think most of us would insist on an extended period of training and observation.  I know that I would.

If your nephew or niece wanted to learn to use your track saw, how would you go about training them?  What would you warn them against?

 

[twistsol1]

A touch off topic, but manufacturers can't necessarily be relied upon to provide quality advice. This is an excerpt from a book recommended by DeWalt in the manual for my dad's radial arms saw. The 1956 Book “Easy Ways to Expert Woodworking” and in part may explain why the RAS has a reputation as an extremely dangerous machine.

Crosscutting Wide Boards and Panels
To cut a board wider than the capacity of the machine, cut to the limit, then turn it over and complete the cut. Large pieces of plywood can be cut with ease by using the method shown in Fig. 2-23. The motor is placed in a horizontal rip position, and then the radial arm is swung to approximately a 30-degree left- hand miter. The motor is fully extended on the arm, allowing the blade to overhang the front edge of the work table. With the arm in this position, the blade overhang will extend beyond the plywood to be cut. Such an arrangement allows the panel to be pushed from right to left through the moving blade.
To support the large panel while cutting and to assure a square cut, a slotted two-by-four is placed on the floor to serve as a lower guide, while the front edge of the worktable supports the top of the panel. The groove in the lower guide should be parallel and perpendicular with the front edge and can be cut as described on page 39. The lower guide can also be fastened to the front of the workbench for small panels.

[attachimg=1]

 

[jeffinsgf]

Everyone loves to post that picture to make fun of radial arm saws and how cavalier DeWalt was to publish that procedure. Is it a great, fully vetted safe approach? No. Is it capable of doing a decent job and surviving if you have a scintilla of sense self-preservation? Yes. Single-handed (as shown) is particularly dicey, but I would do it with an experienced helper. I'm much more concerned about the weight of the off-cut settling on the blade than I am about the 1/8" of exposed blade.