TRION PS 300 Out-of-Square Cuts

[CumminsDiesel]

Hi guys!

May be I'm doing something wrong,but today finishing deck I cut Pressure-treated 4X4 (see pictures) with my Trion PS300,longer blade and result was not so great: the cut was Out-of-Square.

The post was installed and I have no chance but cut it vertically. (see pictures)

Am I doing something wrong or its just not impossible to cut that way?

Thanks.

 

[MrToolJunkie]

Hmm...are the guide properly set?  Is the shoe set to 90 degrees to the blade?  What orbit speed were you using?  Any chance of lateral forces when pushing the saw forward?

Scot

 

[CumminsDiesel]

Hmm...are the guide properly set?  Is the shoe set to 90 degrees to the blade?  What orbit speed were you using?  Any chance of lateral forces when pushing the saw forward?

Scot

ScotF,the shoe was set to 90 degrees,the speed was 6,stroke 2.

 

[CumminsDiesel]

OK,not much help.

The selling point was it can cut a 4X4 perfectly square.

Not happen to me,unfortunately.

Well,I'm selling now my Trion.

P.S.   Going to order Bosch JS572EB

 

[mastercabman]

What blade did you use?

 

[CumminsDiesel]

What blade did you use?

I use Trion Blade - S 145/4 FSG

 

[MrToolJunkie]

I am not sure that you are going to get much better of a cut with a different saw.  Any lateral play could impact the squareness of the cut.  Even the thicker blades can bend a little.  It looks like from the drawing that you cut with the machine on its side and I think it would be difficult to keep it parallel in this instance.  Did you try and cut the same material with the saw in the traditional manner wit the same result?

Scot

 

[CumminsDiesel]

I am not sure that you are going to get much better of a cut with a different saw.
Scot

Agreed, but what is the point of having an expensive Carvex 420 (Trion in the same price as a New Bosch now) if it can't cut perfectly square?

I was thinking to buy Carvex,but reading a lot reviews make me stay away from this saw.

If I can't cut a 4X4,for example a PERFECTLY square,I don't need this saw!

 

[mastercabman]

I am not sure that you are going to get much better of a cut with a different saw.
Scot

Agreed, but what is the point of having an expensive Carvex 420 (Trion in the same price as a New Bosch now) if it can't cut perfectly square?

I was thinking to buy Carvex,but reading a lot reviews make me stay away from this saw.

If I can't cut a 4X4,for example a PERFECTLY square,I don't need this saw!

Sorry can't help you.I don't cut anything that thick with my trion.I use the same blade but smaller and get perfect square cuts.
The carvex is a good saw but I don't think it cuts better.The blade guiding thing is the same as the trion so I don't know that you will get better result than the trion
(unless there's something wrong with your trion/blades)

 

[CumminsDiesel]

Well,maybe this helps me in my situation,like Bob Marino said:

"The only points I would add are using Festool's Trion blades item 490179 or an equivalent long, thick blade with a fairly aggressive pitch [size=9pt]and go at a steady speed, not too fast[/size]. Four inch stock is approaching the limit of what any jigsaw can cut - let alone cutting straight and square.
I was working at the Festool booth some years back and they did demo the Trions with  3"+ hardwood stock  (not 100% sure of exact thickness - could have been 4"). After cutting, they put a square on it to check and it was perfect.
I would also add that all the stars  must be in alignment (correct blade, carbon guides set right, proper aggressive orbit, correct speed on the saw, feed rate,  as well as proper 2 handed stance, total concentration and practice) and if any one of those are missing, you won't get the perfect, square cut.  Even those skilled with a jigsaw may have to make practice cuts."

I'll try it again.

 

[nclemmons]

Check the guides as well -

You want to adjust the blade guides so they snug up to the blade and then back off about 1/4 turn so you can slip the blade in and out to the guides without it grabbing.

The allen wrench is in the base of the saw if you have not tried this before.



That could be part of your problem.

 

[CumminsDiesel]

Check the guides as well -

You want to adjust the blade guides so they snug up to the blade and then back off about 1/4 turn so you can slip the blade in and out to the guides without it grabbing.

The allen wrench is in the base of the saw if you have not tried this before.



That could be part of your problem.

Thank you for Video,but I know exactly how to adjust the blade guides.

Funny you mention about allen wrench ,of course I know where it is attached,to bad Festool miss it on the Carvex saw.

 

[nanook]

yes, after setting the tool up I was not entirely impressed with the Trion's ability to cut 90degrees in 2-4'' stock either.  I think its really asking a lot of any jigsaw, but based on Festool's marketing I had the expectation that it would be very close to 90degrees in thicker stock.  I found that was somewhat rare. 

Tempted to try a Carvex out of curiosity if it  works better, but not feeling optimistic that it will. 
BTW- totally agree, why does the Carvex not have on board storage for the Allan key???  The Trion does (nice touch!) and so do the saws!    Should have been easy enough to build into the 90degree base

 

[MrToolJunkie]

So far I have been able to get spot-on 90 degree cuts with both my Trion and Carvex in thick and thin material.  No complains whatsoever.  I am able to achieve 90 degree cuts with my Bosch JS572 as well, but so far I only get consistent results using one of the stiffer Festool blades (Carvex/Trion labled) or one of the thicker Bosch blades (ending in a "DP").  I like all three saws for different reasons and they all seem to excel at one or two things that the other saws do not excel --so in a way they compliment one another.  That said, the cut you are trying to make I think is difficult no matter what saw you are using.  I might cut it a little proud and then sand it flush if that is an option.

Scot

 

[nanook]

yep, thicker blade is needed (and all longer blades are thicker), but I find the blade still deflects L&R, most noticeably following grain change in ring porous woods.   You know the 2''+ work that you could do on a jigsaw, but you really should get a portable bandsaw for.... lol    For 1'' and under, the Trion is a good saw - but overpriced. 
For me the premium on the Festool did not make sense as it did not live up to its billings in terms of squareness for stuff like deckbuilding.   YMMV.

That said, sanding down to square w/ a belt sander is a work around, for premium tool prices - I expect not to really have to.   Besides, hard to add wood if the blade deflects into the keeper piece.  Just been underwhelmed with the Trion

 

[CumminsDiesel]

Well,I'm just thinking if the Mafell Jigsaw can do this cut,or I'm asking to much for a Jigsaw any brand?

 

[mouppe]

My trion can handle that cut no problem.

 

[Michael Kellough]

I am not sure that you are going to get much better of a cut with a different saw.
Scot

Agreed, but what is the point of having an expensive Carvex 420 (Trion in the same price as a New Bosch now) if it can't cut perfectly square?

I was thinking to buy Carvex,but reading a lot reviews make me stay away from this saw.

If I can't cut a 4X4,for example a PERFECTLY square,I don't need this saw!

No jigsaw can do that. You need a 12" miter saw.

"The post was installed and I have no chance but cut it vertically."

But, if you're trying to make a cut on an erect post you'll need some help to do it with a miter saw. 
It's safer to use a jigsaw or hand saw.

It takes some skill with either saw to get good results. You'll get the best results if you start off with the hand saw.

The loose end of the jigsaw blade wiggles laterally until it is establishes a kerf. If you start the saw and simply proceed to cut it's a crapshoot what angle the blade will be when it starts to form a kerf. Whatever angle is established by the wiggling blade is likely to be  the angle of the cut all the way across.

If you are cross-cutting an erect post the blade is also influenced by gravity. That doesn't influence the odds of the angle crap-shoot, it just increases the maximum blade deflection in one direction.

If you can get the blade to start cutting square you'll have a much better chance of making the whole cut square.

First layout the cut on two adjacent sides with a square and pencil or better yet a knife.
Then start the cut on the blade face of the post with a good handsaw close to the same kerf thickness as the jigsaw blade.
Put the speed of the jigsaw on slow and get the loose end of the blade started first then slide the base farther onto the post so the whole blade is engaged in the wood.
Switch to full speed and complete the cut.

If you don't have a handsaw you can get a kerf started on the far corner (getting a kerf started to contain the loose end of the blade is most important) of the post by allowing only the part of the blade closest to the shoe to engage the wood. Hard to explain but it means starting the cut from the opposite face of the post first to get a well placed kerf established.

Then start the jigsaw slowly and with the loose end of the blade in the kerf and slide the saw up onto the face of the post and switch to full speed as above

 

[semenza]

I am not sure that you are going to get much better of a cut with a different saw.
Scot

Agreed, but what is the point of having an expensive Carvex 420 (Trion in the same price as a New Bosch now) if it can't cut perfectly square?

I was thinking to buy Carvex,but reading a lot reviews make me stay away from this saw.

If I can't cut a 4X4,for example a PERFECTLY square,I don't need this saw!

No jigsaw can do that. You need a 12" miter saw.

"The post was installed and I have no chance but cut it vertically."

But, if you're trying to make a cut on an erect post you'll need some help to do it with a miter saw. 
It's safer to use a jigsaw or hand saw.

It takes some skill with either saw to get good results. You'll get the best results if you start off with the hand saw.

The loose end of the jigsaw blade wiggles laterally until it is establishes a kerf. If you start the saw and simply proceed to cut it's a crapshoot what angle the blade will be when it starts to form a kerf. Whatever angle is established by the wiggling blade is likely to be  the angle of the cut all the way across.

If you are cross-cutting an erect post the blade is also influenced by gravity. That doesn't influence the odds of the angle crap-shoot, it just increases the maximum blade deflection in one direction.

If you can get the blade to start cutting square you'll have a much better chance of making the whole cut square.

First layout the cut on two adjacent sides with a square and pencil or better yet a knife.
Then start the cut on the blade face of the post with a good handsaw close to the same kerf thickness as the jigsaw blade.
Put the speed of the jigsaw on slow and get the loose end of the blade started first then slide the base farther onto the post so the whole blade is engaged in the wood.
Switch to full speed and complete the cut.

If you don't have a handsaw you can get a kerf started on the far corner (getting a kerf started to contain the loose end of the blade is most important) of the post by allowing only the part of the blade closest to the shoe to engage the wood. Hard to explain but it means starting the cut from the opposite face of the post first to get a well placed kerf established.

Then start the jigsaw slowly and with the loose end of the blade in the kerf and slide the saw up onto the face of the post and switch to full speed as above

Hence the 'A'  speed setting on Carvex. Blade automatically starts slow and speeds up once the cut is started.

Seth

 

[CumminsDiesel]

My trion can handle that cut no problem.

Any pictures?

My Trion can't do it perfectly square.