Trying to decide between mft3 and an mf slab on a sturdy softwood base.

[Stevenscustomguitars]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum but having been reading lots of posts about the mft, mftc and the Paulk bench etc - some really great threads.

My situation is this - I have a small workshop (6 x 3.5m) that has just been built. I do some guitar work and my main existing tools are a router table, drill press and bobbin sander. And lots of handtools.

I'm about to kit out the workshop with some cupboards and open cabinets and will also start building a new kitchen soon in melamine faced birch ply. I plan on buying the DF500 domino to use in conjunction with a kreg pocket hole jig for all of that.

I don't have a table saw or bandsaw. My only saw, and only current Festool is the TS55 which I love.

So I'm trying to decide between the MFT3 at a pretty high cost or buying a cnc'ed MF slab (like the one in Steve Olsen's video) for about £45 and building a softwood base for it.

I don't need portability so the pros of the MFT seem to be ease of crosscutting, and routing, and the easy repeatability because of the flag stop. And of course the fact that I could be up and running instantly.

Whereas the slab/DIY gives me a larger work surface, on a sturdier base (built with the domino) that I could hand plane on, I could also fit in t-track vertically in one leg and on an apron if needed I can also design it to fit sortainer cases underneath and have a tool shelf, useful for putting the saw on.

The cons, and the things I need advice on, are that I don't know how easy it is to crosscut accurately using dogs and rail dogs and it won't have any kind of moveable stop built in for repeat cuts which would be very useful. Are there good ways of doing this on a basic Multi function top?

Any advice or photos/ videos would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Dave

 

[BMH]

Dave

After 8 years I just cave in and bought my second MFT3 and kick myself for not doing it sooner. I had a cutting table on saw horses for many of those years to break down sheet goods then I cut them down to size on the MFT.  I am currently building 8 foot tall melamine cabinets and the two table compliment each other beautifully. It has also makes me work 30% faster.

I also built this tablehttp://www.benchworks.be/sysport.html. I do all of my planning on it and all of my edge banding great table at low cost.

Basic answer MFT3 expensive but you won't regret it. Great clamping surface also.

Bruce

 

[Stevenscustomguitars]

Dave

After 8 years I just cave in and bought my second MFT3 and kick myself for not doing it sooner. I had a cutting table on saw horses for many of those years to break down sheet goods then I cut them down to size on the MFT.  I am currently building 8 foot tall melamine cabinets and the two table compliment each other beautifully. It has also makes me work 30% faster.

I also built this tablehttp://www.benchworks.be/sysport.html. I do all of my planning on it and all of my edge banding great table at low cost.

Basic answer MFT3 expensive but you won't regret it. Great clamping surface also.

Bruce

Thanks Bruce. I'm just struggling with the £500 for the full mft on top of the £700+ for the domino with accessories! You other bench looks perfect.  What are the advantages of an mft over a sturdier softwood framed mft style top with dogs and rail dogs?

This is the style of top I was considering

I guess what I'm thinking of is something like your bench but maybe open underneath. What advantages does the mft have over it?
Thanks
Dave

 

[thedude306]

What are you going to be doing with the top/bench?  Is it a fixture in your shop our are you going to be moving it around and having it onsite for jobs?

I personally find the MFT too wobbly for my liking and the price was out of my budget.  Especially for two.  But the top is genius with the holes.  I've considered making a Paulk style top with dog holes for onsite work.

But I don't take them to the jobsite so I built an MFT bench with storage underneath for my shop.  Very similar to the one posted above.  It's big, it's heavy, it doesn't move it has great storage, mines perfectly flat (used a torsion box under the MFT) and I love it for assemble and sanding etc.  I don't cut into the top on mine as I have sacrificial cleats if needed  to raise the piece off the top.

 

[Stevenscustomguitars]

What are you going to be doing with the top/bench?  Is it a fixture in your shop our are you going to be moving it around and having it onsite for jobs?

I personally find the MFT too wobbly for my liking and the price was out of my budget.  Especially for two.  But the top is genius with the holes.  I've considered making a Paulk style top with dog holes for onsite work.

It doesn't need to be transportable. I'd like to eventually build a hardwood bench with vices but until I do, this will be my primary bench for a while in combination with some simple work surfaces. I'll be making, sanding, finishing and assembling cabinets as well as making and assembling guitars so I'll need to clamp vertically against the leg and clamp guitar neck blanks projecting out horizontally for hand shaping. I just worry that the mft is too wobbly for that task.

I too thought about buying a cnc'ed top with precision holes and using it as the top for a small, single piece paulk style bench. But does the torsion box add anything over just fixing the top to a level softwood Bench frame?

Cheers
Dave

 

[thedude306]

The only reason I went with a torsion box was to ensure I have a perfectly flat top.  I did run into a few issues doing it that way as you can not access the bottom of the dog holes (some clamps need under table access) and because of the torsion box supports I can't swing the clamp 360* on the holes that are against a support (under the top).

But for myself, having the top flat (not "kinda" flat) is what I wanted.   

here's my bench that I came up with.  It's got a built in router lift, clamp storage etc but you get the idea.  I have build pictures of the top (the torsion part) if you want



I also use this for assemble and breaking down sheet goods.  It has adj legs so I can lower it need or raise it up.

IMG_3079 by Brad Taylor, on Flickr

 

[TealaG]

I tried to build a modified Paul work bench that would not be portable and instead would feature tool storage below.  I originally had a 9" space between the holed top and the wood above the tool cubbies.  On paper I kept debating that space...seemed like a waste.  Well...through multiple design "adjustments, mistakes etc".  That space is barely 3".  I am unhappy.

Lost opportunities due to not having the space:
1.  Fastening clamps down from under the holed top. 
2.  Space for clamping holes.  T tracks etc
3 quick storage for my impact driver, pencil, drill bits
4.  Vise clamping space

Also, I am an admitted beginner and made bunches of mistakes and had to buy tools to help with accuracy to mitigate problems due to lack of skill.    If I were to be totally honest.
, my "cheap workbench" has cost more than an mft.  I didn't want a lightweight bench and I needed the custom storage.  I also gained more experience than I could have gotten in a book or class.  So I am not totally unhappy with the result.  My bench is also better for my height and is 30"x60"...which coincidentally is the largest size of wood that my car can carry and the largest that I can comfortably manage on my own.

Note that I bought the rail hinge thing from festool and bought a short side that I will cut in half to mount each piece on the front and back.  Not sure whether I will like it bit I wanted to try it out.

I am planning on different removable front faces for my 3" space that can be attached with threaded inserts on the bench.  I want one with holes.  One with a t track and I need something to mount that festool side to (maybe it could attach to either the hole strip or the  t track...haven't figured it out yet.

Maybe the best advice is not to assume that your first homemade bench will be your last because as soon as you use the first one you'll realize what you forgot to add to it!!!

I have a yard sale bench that I used before this over priced monstrosity.  It is my next victim...I will lower the top and add more Vise functionality as well as other stuff that got forgotten on the other bench

 

[Harvey]

If you went with the MF slab you could probably rig up an aluminum extrusion for a rear fence. Maybe use rail dogs to hold it?

I have the MFT/3 and it's probably my most used Festool, but it would need bracing (and more weight!)  for any type of heavy handwork like shaping.

 

[BMH]

Dave

I build my festool collection over 8 plus years. I don't collect tools, each purchase is well though out and cost/effectiveness measured. You can build cabinets without dominos, having them help but is not mandatory. You can research on this website many different ways of doing it. The most important element in building cabinet is getting all of your cuts square. The MFT3 helps with that. The second most important tool is a good router but you need a firm clamping table and the MFT3 helps with that.

If you are building guitars the MFT3 will be more useful then the domino. Having a surface you can move 360 degree around is great. Folding it away to give you an open space great. Clamping in so many ways amazing.  Guaranty 90 degree cuts that you can repeat time after time priceless. The MFT3 has a learning curve to make it a useful tool, takes time to master.

The domino is an amazing tool. You need to use it a lot to get your money out of it. Over 6000 plus dominos later I have hit that point. Unless you have other project a domino for just some cabinets is not worth it.

Bruce

 

[festivus]

I found the MFT/3 a very difficult tool to justify - but use it all the time.

The clamping is very handy - but yes you could replicate that.

But for cross cutting up to 600mm accurately. At any angle, safely too - I hardly use my decent Bosch mitre saw or table saw (only for ripping).

I do wish it was a little cheaper though - and it is wobbly for hand tool work.

 

[Holmz]

I have an MFT.
If you are considering doing you own, then I would say do it.
Either on horses, a base, or as a Murphy bed.

You can still spend up on clamps.

 

[rmwarren]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum but having been reading lots of posts about the mft, mftc and the Paulk bench etc - some really great threads.

My situation is this - I have a small workshop (6 x 3.5m) that has just been built. I do some guitar work and my main existing tools are a router table, drill press and bobbin sander. And lots of handtools.

I'm about to kit out the workshop with some cupboards and open cabinets and will also start building a new kitchen soon in melamine faced birch ply. I plan on buying the DF500 domino to use in conjunction with a kreg pocket hole jig for all of that.

I don't have a table saw or bandsaw. My only saw, and only current Festool is the TS55 which I love.

So I'm trying to decide between the MFT3 at a pretty high cost or buying a cnc'ed MF slab (like the one in Steve Olsen's video) for about £45 and building a softwood base for it.

I don't need portability so the pros of the MFT seem to be ease of crosscutting, and routing, and the easy repeatability because of the flag stop. And of course the fact that I could be up and running instantly.

Whereas the slab/DIY gives me a larger work surface, on a sturdier base (built with the domino) that I could hand plane on, I could also fit in t-track vertically in one leg and on an apron if needed I can also design it to fit sortainer cases underneath and have a tool shelf, useful for putting the saw on.

The cons, and the things I need advice on, are that I don't know how easy it is to crosscut accurately using dogs and rail dogs and it won't have any kind of moveable stop built in for repeat cuts which would be very useful. Are there good ways of doing this on a basic Multi function top?

Any advice or photos/ videos would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Dave

Dave,

I had an MFT and a similar situation, i.e. small shop with no large tablesaw, etc. Ended up replacing the MFT with a custom cart with similar features, there is an extensive thread here:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/(yet-another)-8020-mftsys-cart/msg386040/#msg386040

Some of my major take-aways were:

1 - In a small shop put EVERYTHING on wheels
2 - The stability of the cart over the MFT is important for things like planing, etc
3 - The custom setup is way more work than I expected

Have fun.

RMW

 

[TealaG]

[member=8712]Richard/RMW[/member].  I agree with your comment regarding wheels.  Curious whether yours are locking casters or????    I buy locking casters at Lowes and they do not lock well.  Would I get better Locking with a more expensive caster?  Any suggestions?

 

[rvieceli]

[member=59699]TealaG[/member]

I have been using some of these from Home Depot for a while and have been generally pleased:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-3-in-Polyurethane-Caster-with-Brake-4120545EB/203672194

There is a 3 inch, a 4 inch and a 5 inch. The brake locks both the wheel and the swivel, so there is less wobble. I've been using them for a bout 10 months but so far they have held up. I've got some on my drill press that's about 350 pounds as well as some tables in the shop

 

[rmwarren]

[member=8712]Richard/RMW[/member].  I agree with your comment regarding wheels.  Curious whether yours are picking casters or????    I buy locking casters at Lowes and they do not lock well.  Would I get better Living with a more expensive caster?  Any suggestions?

[member=59699]TealaG[/member] - Like Ron I have used the red 3" HD casters and they worked fine in the shop. I need to roll mine out of the shop over a slight threshold and across wooden deck so I prefer 4" casters and will be replacing the 3" ones soon.

Recently found a great source that someone on the FOG referred to in a post - castercity.com. You can basically mix/match wheel types, lock types, etc. and their prices on a 4" swivel caster with good (swivel & wheel) locks were around $16/EA, about $8 less than I have found them for elsewhere. This is the caster I prefer:
http://www.castercity.com/cmK3a-plate.htm

Hope this helps.

RMW

 

[TealaG]

guys...thanks so much for the caster suggestions.  I'm embarrassed at how that post read...I was using my iphone and "autocorrect" clearly doesn't understand discussions regarding LOCKING casters.    Thanks for understanding my request anyway.  I have seen caster city before but it's sooo expensive.  But since you guys recommend it, I'll get some and see if I get better results. 

 

[rmwarren]

guys...thanks so much for the caster suggestions.  I'm embarrassed at how that post read...I was using my iphone and "autocorrect" clearly doesn't understand discussions regarding LOCKING casters.    Thanks for understanding my request anyway.  I have seen caster city before but it's sooo expensive.  But since you guys recommend it, I'll get some and see if I get better results.

I guess you get what you pay for, I never use the casters with the side lock. The ones Ron mentioned are pretty good, key is getting a brake that locks the wheel and swivel, this is about as stable are you can get.

FWIW I have paid $100+ shipping for the set they sell for $60+ shipping, the one in the link. Must have gotten numb to high priced casters.

RMW

 

[clark_fork]

I have both. I started with the slab and then saw the efficiency of cutting on the MFT3. In the end, I find I am assembling, gluing, laying out and finishing on the slab and doing all my cutting of the MFT3. I made a sacrificial top for the slab I use when refinishing or doing glue ups. I do like the work space the slab affords.

My slab is on Krenov trestle horses but if I did it again, I would build a table on casters. My guess is that for small work like guitars, the MFT3 would be a better choice and worth the expense. Just consider the steps involved in making a cross cut on the MFT3 and the slab. The MFT3 is far more efficient; swing the fence onto the line and track through as opposed to setting up the track on the slab and then putting the  track away. Time is money as they say...

For others not worried about portability, the slab is heavy and almost too much to manage.  I do have enough room for both but if I started over, I would probably not go to a slab. I like the MFT3 that much. I did get the cross legs to steady the MFT3.

 

[Stevenscustomguitars]

Thanks for all the interesting replies, looks of great input.

I take on board the suggestion about wheels, I'll look into it.

I'm still undecided, a custom build would be great but given that I have a couple of urgent projects to build, the mft3 would be very useful and quick to get going. The portability may be useful in the future, especially when I do build a bigger bench.

I guess the cost is the sticking point.

The main things I need at the moment are properly square cuts and good clamping options, although I'll be getting most of the ply cabinet components cut to size. If I went with the slab build, will rail dogs on the the guide rail and bench dogs guarantee square cuts? And I haven't figured out how I can build a fence with a measure and flip stop of some kind.

I guess I could always get the torsion box components cut to size and use it on trestles for the time being until I have the time to build a proper base. Or buy the mft3 to use now and build a bigger mft slab bench later.

Is there a reason why all the bench tops I see are MDF rather than ply?

Thanks for all the advice.
Cheers
Dave

 

[AndyUK]

Thanks for all the interesting replies, looks of great input.

I take on board the suggestion about wheels, I'll look into it.

I'm still undecided, a custom build would be great but given that I have a couple of urgent projects to build, the mft3 would be very useful and quick to get going. The portability may be useful in the future, especially when I do build a bigger bench.

I guess the cost is the sticking point.
If I remember rightly you should be able to pick the full monty MFT-3 up for around £500. To make the price more palatable that means it's usefulness would cost you about £10 per week over the year or £5 pw over 2 years. Doesn't sound too bad now does it?   [big grin]

The main things I need at the moment are properly square cuts and good clamping options, although I'll be getting most of the ply cabinet components cut to size. If I went with the slab build, will rail dogs on the the guide rail and bench dogs guarantee square cuts? And I haven't figured out how I can build a fence with a measure and flip stop of some kind.

If the holes have been machined exactly in position and the dogs are a good fit in the holes then yes you should be getting good square cuts. You could make a fence and incorporate a t-track with a sliding stop I suppose?

I guess I could always get the torsion box components cut to size and use it on trestles for the time being until I have the time to build a proper base. Or buy the mft3 to use now and build a bigger mft slab bench later.

Is there a reason why all the bench tops I see are MDF rather than ply?

Not sure to be honest, maybe cost as MDF is considerably cheaper than a good quality plywood.

Thanks for all the advice.
Cheers
Dave