TS 55 EQ let the smoke out

[marrt]

I purchased a TS 55 EQ from Bob Marino back in 2011.  I've used to saw to make about 20 cuts since new.  I have a lot of circular saws and usually don't require the precision of the TS 55.  Anyway, I pulled the saw out today to make a 30 degree bevel in a 2x.  The saw was running off a large generator.  From the start, the saw was laboring hard in the cut even though I was going very slow.  About 2 feet in, I started to see some smoke.  I stopped and checked everything.  I assumed the smoke was from the board since I was going so slow and I didn't smell any "electrical" smoke.  I started again and the smoking reoccurred after another couple feet.  At this point, I put the saw back in it's systainer and finished the cut with a small circular saw (my HKC 55 was back at my shop unfortunately).  The TS 55 never went into thermal shut down but after completing the cut the wood was not burned anywhere.

Is it worth the hassle to get the saw checked out?  Like I said, it didn't shut down and would spin up normally.  It just seemed to have no power...like with a really dull blade (the blade is fine though).  I also seem to recall reading somewhere that the electronics in the TS 55 want extremely clean power.  Maybe that was part of the issue.

 

[antss]

I making a guess the problem is because it was hooked up to a generator. 

I believe waveform produced by those is different then the power coming out of the wall receptacle.

Which balde were you using to make these cuts?  If you used the stock 48t blade , that certainly contributed to the problem at 30 deg. In 2x material.

 

[Holmz]

...
Is it worth the hassle to get the saw checked out?
...

Well it is not usable now.
Your choices are the trash can, sell it for parts, or get it repaired.
I see no good option other than sending it in, and getting a repair cost.

Then you can decide on whether it is viable to have it repaired.

 

[LooseSox]

+1

Unless its a pure sine wave regulated generator (most aren't) then it will cause you dramas with electronic equipment ie the spees controller in the TS55

I making a guess the problem is because it was hooked up to a generator. 

I believe waveform produced by those is different then the power coming out of the wall receptacle.

Which balde were you using to make these cuts?  If you used the stock 48t blade , that certainly contributed to the problem at 30 deg. In 2x material.

 

[aloysius]

A 30 degree cut must be approaching the saw's Max depth of cut capacity.  If it was in hardwood, that's a pretty big ask for such a tiny, low powered Saw that's primarily designed for much thinner sheet goods.

Bevelled rip cuts in scantling are more the province of bigger, more powerful saws.

 

[peter halle]

If it were my saw I would send it in to see what was up.

Peter

 

[nickao]

Compare the cuts of generator verse wall power before sending it in, it's near a 7 year old saw. Don't send it in without doing this or it's a waste of time.

I am willing to bet you find that for the same cut the saw acts the same whether generator or wall power. If it acts different then you know it's the generator. Test square cut first, if there is no difference with generator verse wall then go to the bevel cut comparison. I bet the bevel cant be made with either type power. Doing a comparison like this for me would be a must before sending the unit in.

I could hardly ever make that cut in hardwood with even the newest version of the TS 55 and the reason I sold them. The saw is woefully under powered, it's a plywood saw for the occasional  hardwood and no one will convince me otherwise as I owned the saws far to long.

If I misunderstand and the saw is broken completely I probably would trash it. Some guys might send it in, but I would put any money toward a 2018 saw model.

 

[PeterK]

As Dovetail says the 55 is really not designed for this cut. That is what the big 75 model is for. Using the TS55, blade selection is very important. I have at least 5 different blades for mine. It will rip or crosscut with a great finished edge if proper blade and technique is used. I would NEVER ask it to bevel cut a 2X. I don't believe you stated if it was treated wet wood or kiln dryed soft or hard wood. Makes a major difference. I use a miter saw for this cut or an old 7 1/4" Dewalt.

 

[marrt]

Guys, sorry for the late reply.  I had to go out of town suddenly.

As to some of the questions...I was using the original stock blade.  It's still sharp but, as noted, isn't the best blade for this cut.  The cut was in Douglas fir, untreated.  I'll test the saw again on wall power when I return.  I don't think the saw is trashed...but won't know until I test. 

Frankly, I never thought the saw had a lot of power.  Even on plywood.  However, since it's variable speed, and I didn't have another ts 55 to compare with, I assumed it's behavior was normal.  Even in plywood, it would make a "grinding" sound when pushing through the cut at normal speeds.

BTW, I'm not "dissing" the saw.  I bought the saw mainly for sheet goods anyway.  I guess I'll call Festool and get an estimate, if possible, on the cost to diagnose the problem.  As noted, it might be much smarter to put money toward a new saw.

 

[antss]

.I was using the original stock blade.

Well , there's your answer.  A 48t blade at 160mm is not for a bevel cut in 2x doug fir.  You didn't say if it was a cross or rip cut. If it was a rip cut .... [doh]

Certainly , the generator power isn't helping either.  Regarding the grinding sound - it's normal for this saw.  Doesn't make guys feel warm and fuzzy, but that's the noise Festool saws make.  The saw isn't powerful, but I think it's adequate for the tasks it's was designed for.  These aren't your gramps' worm drive saw.

You'll probably frustrate yourself even trying to talk to a warm body. If you do, they won't be able to tell anything useful and will have you send it in.  They'll take it apart and tell you what's wrong with a price.  If you decline,  it won't be re-assembled.  Only you can say whether it's worth repairing.  You can look on EKAT for the pricing of a TS55 controller and motor assembly to get an idea of what repair costs might be.

 

[marrt]

I got home last night and pulled out the ts 55 for a test cut in my shop.  On some 3/4 ply, the saw cut fine on line power (i.e., no generator).  I pushed the saw pretty hard and it cut the ply like butter. 

I'm pretty sure the generator and improper blade combined to cause the problem I experienced.  I knew I had the wrong blade.  But, as many people know, when you're in the field you have to do the job with the tools on hand whenever possible.  I thought I could get by for the few cuts I needed.  I was wrong.

At this point, I'm starting to question if the saw was even smoking.  I attempted the cut twice and both times I thought the saw was smoking (my assistant agreed).  I was not using a DE so it's possible the "smoke" was really just very fine dust since I never actually smelled smoke...the wind was blowing a bit so it's hard to know.  Both my attempted cuts lasted no more than 15 seconds each.  I'd be shocked if it's possible to kill this saw with two 15 second cuts were the saw didn't stall.

As to the issue of "don't even try to cut 2x on a bevel with the 55," then why did Festool select a blade diameter that makes this possible?  I don't cut much foam insulation with a circular saw, so what did they expect me to cut?  Yes...it's fine for the occasional cross cut.  But with the right blade, this saw "should" be capable of ripping 2x without much drama.  Otherwise, they should have reduced the blade diameter and made the saw much lighter for dedicated ply use in my opinion. 

 

[semenza]

As to the issue of "don't even try to cut 2x on a bevel with the 55," then why did Festool select a blade diameter that makes this possible?  I don't cut much foam insulation with a circular saw, so what did they expect me to cut?  Yes...it's fine for the occasional cross cut.  But with the right blade, this saw "should" be capable of ripping 2x without much drama.  Otherwise, they should have reduced the blade diameter and made the saw much lighter for dedicated ply use in my opinion.

Because with the correct ripping blade it will cut 2x on a bevel.

It also can make cuts in stacked sheet goods.

Seth

 

[antss]

marrt , no one said "don't try cutting" a bevel in 2x with this saw.  What they're saying is it's primary design concept was for cutting sheet goods.  This is what it excels at.  Sure it will cut it, but so will a Disston handsaw. 

What you're extrapolating out of this is kinda like asking why a tablesaw struggles at making a mitre cut in 14' long 8" tall crown molding. Or why it doesn't rip worth a darn if you have a 10" blade with 80t on it.  Though it will cut miters , it wasn't designed as a mitre saw and 80t is not a ripping blade.

Use the correct tools AND cutters for the job. If you don't have them on the job, go get them.  It's no different than not haveing the correct or enough materials on the site. If you have 28' feet of baseboard and a room that is 225 sq. ft, then you're not finishing the job.

Re: the smoke - when you smoke one you'll know.  Burnt windings have a very distinctive smell not easily forgotten once encountered