TS 55 help

[Tayler_mann]

So yesterday I was using my TS 55 to rip and cross cut some 8/4 legs for a bed frame I am building. The legs measured 4 1/16" x 53" and were ripped evenly off of one 8 1/4" piece. So that means that 4" were outside of the track and 4" under the track. The actual total length of the board to was 78" for my rough cut. So my two 55" tracks that were combined were covered for the most part, my track was also set to my Mft top using precision rip dogs and the material was clamped flat to the table top. When I performed a rip cut the cut was off about 1/32" over my 3" square which I dropped and is off about 1/100 of an inch. So after I did this rip and realized I wasn't square I took the same material and cross cut to find that it was perfectly square. I used the same way to cross cut minus the combined tracks. I am wandering when I am doing a longer rip maybe I am holding the saw differently? Maybe I torque it ever so slightly to a different angle. I annoy sure but can anyone PLEASE help with this as I am very confused. I have used this saw for 5 months now doing all the same stuff and haven't had this problem before so I am curious as to what I did.

 

[travisj]

You have more experience than I.  My TS 55 hasn't come out of its systainer yet and I returned my MFT within 6 hours of opening it.  I will try to offer some assistance though.  What was supporting the back of the guide rail (the 4" of stock supported the business end).  Could this have canted things slightly so that your cut was no longer square?  When cross cutting to check for square, I am assuming the rail was fully supported by the stock.  With my previous homemade set-up and a Ridgid circ. saw, I found that on long cuts, I had a habit of tilting the saw due to either limited reach or repositioning my body to finish the cut.

 

[nickao]

Taylor it almost sounds like a thin blade is wandering or your track is slipping.

Travis why did you return your mft, too small?

 

[tjbnwi]

You state the piece was not square---do you mean the sides were not parallel or the edge was not 90º to the surface of the board?

You may be introducing side thrust on the longer rips. Easy to do without realizing it.

Tom

 

[Holmz]

So your saw is not square to the base then?
We can call the downward direction Z (or -Z for the right handed).

If the forward direction is X and left to right is Y/-Y...
Then Your other potential issues include X having a kink (moving in Y)  if the tracks are not joined in a line. If the tracks slip that also can offset the cut.

I am assuming that the tracks are flat and not bent or bowed?
(That requires a careful measurement rather than just a fond glance)

 

[Tayler_mann]

The tracks are perfectly flat and not bowed at all. I feel like I am possibly giving the saw a small amount of a torsion when doing the longer rips. I will have to do some more extensive testing to see exactly what is going on. I will have to get a straight edge out and check all my rails. They should be flat but there is always potential for problems. I know for a fact the tracks are joined flat since I double checked them on my table/straightedge/bench dogs. I'll repost after trying to see what's going on. My first thought was thought of an operator error so I still think that'd be what the problem is.

 

[Holmz]

The tracks are perfectly flat and not bowed at all. I feel like I am possibly giving the saw a small amount of a torsion when doing the longer rips. I will have to do some more extensive testing to see exactly what is going on. I will have to get a straight edge out and check all my rails. They should be flat but there is always potential for problems. I know for a fact the tracks are joined flat since I double checked them on my table/straightedge/bench dogs. I'll repost after trying to see what's going on. My first thought was thought of an operator error so I still think that'd be what the problem is.

Let's first get a common set of terms...
"Flat/bowed" I am assuming is referring to "twisted" where one of the 6-7" corners would be off the table, when the other three are in contact?
...or that the track is hunched up like an armadillo or a tom cat, or bent upwards on the ends like a banana or canoe?

"Tracks joined flat" I am assuming means that they are in-line and that the splinter strip is not dog-legging over?

All wood is compliant to some extent, but if you had a piece of MDF with the track on top of it... The it may be possible to use a square to see what the squareness is from the bottom. (assuming that the saw is unplugged etc). You could do that every 1/2 to 1 foot along the track.

It should also be possible to see how much twisting force applied to the saw, results in twisting strain as measured with your square?
Probably also at every 1-2 foot to foot.

It is possible to bow the tracks sideways a bit if the ends are clamped down. That is a direction that the tracks are stiff, but a layer wax paper to minimize the grip would allow you to put a sideways force on the saw and then see how much the track is deflecting (if at all). But you want the track to deflect and not the MDF which it is riding upon for a relative measurement.

All that can be done with the saw off and unplugged statically.

What is happening dynamically with the moving blade could be more complex.

 

[Tayler_mann]

So today I got going on this problem again. After further investigation I found that my cut started off perfectly square. As I got towards the middle it got worse, and than once again towards the end it got better again. With the variations happening somewhat the same but not completely repeated exact over the 4 cuts made. After much thought and a little time sitting on the ole' thinkin' stool I came up with two options. My first and most likely is that it is operator error. I had ever so slightly a small amount of play on the rear cam and also probably did not have the track supported well enough. I also noticed during my longer rip motion after plunging the saw I begin to take a light step forward and possibly tweak the saw a fraction.

For my idea, number two, (no pun intended) was only thought about because it being mentioned above but the blade possibly maybe wandering through the 8/4 material. I don't feel as if this is he case though because there would be, in my opinion, maybe a little bit of burnt material from the friction of the blade.

Nonetheless I did a few rips of 5/4 stock tonight and perfection was only the case. If I come up with another issue I will post my findings for more to learn from my own idoicracy instead of their own. [big grin]

 

[Cheese]

[member=42383]Tayler_mann[/member]
I remember a thread a couple of years back either here or at talkfestool.com and the solution was to carefully adjust the saw to the track to prevent side/angular movement between the two, and as [member=4105]tjbnwi[/member] alluded to, make sure there is no side pressure on the saw, only slight pressure down and forward motion. Position yourself so that you're only pushing the saw down the track.

 

[Tayler_mann]

[member=42383]Tayler_mann[/member]
I remember a thread a couple of years back either here or at talkfestool.com and the solution was to carefully adjust the saw to the track to prevent side/angular movement between the two, and as [member=4105]tjbnwi[/member] alluded to, make sure there is no side pressure on the saw, only slight pressure down and forward motion. Position yourself so that you're only pushing the saw down the track.

I definitely think that this is what is happening. I changed my way a little but and everything seemed to work well. I have 14 - 12' boards to rip down to 3" (I'll have to cut them in half first) but I am going to try and perfect my skill at these. If I need to I'll just joint them on my CMS OF unit of need be. It'll be a good practice and also practice at doing my miters stacked.

Also, it appears as if I come off with a sarcastic undertone through my dialogue on the FOG. I have also heard it from a few forums for my CNC software and machines. I have been told as of late that I am condescending. I apologize for this and do not mean to demean anyone's integrity. I have a very strong opinion on the way I do things and think, and also, understand everyone else has their own ways of thinking as well. So to whom I have offended in any posts I appologize.

 

[tjbnwi]

[member=42383]Tayler_mann[/member]

Also, it appears as if I come off with a sarcastic undertone through my dialogue on the FOG. I have also heard it from a few forums for my CNC software and machines. I have been told as of late that I am condescending. I apologize for this and do not mean to demean anyone's integrity. I have a very strong opinion on the way I do things and think, and also, understand everyone else has their own ways of thinking as well. So to whom I have offended in any posts I appologize.

Nothing I noticed.....

 

[Cheese]

Also, it appears as if I come off with a sarcastic undertone through my dialogue on the FOG. I have also heard it from a few forums for my CNC software and machines. I have been told as of late that I am condescending. I apologize for this and do not mean to demean anyone's integrity. I have a very strong opinion on the way I do things and think, and also, understand everyone else has their own ways of thinking as well. So to whom I have offended in any posts I appologize.

I could name a few folk that sound condescending here, but you wouldn't make the list.  [smile]

 

[Holmz]

Also, it appears as if I come off with a sarcastic undertone through my dialogue on the FOG. I have also heard it from a few forums for my CNC software and machines. I have been told as of late that I am condescending. I apologize for this and do not mean to demean anyone's integrity. I have a very strong opinion on the way I do things and think, and also, understand everyone else has their own ways of thinking as well. So to whom I have offended in any posts I appologize.

I could name a few folk that sound condescending here, but you wouldn't make the list.  [smile]

What? someone call?

 

[semenza]

    As you are walking along while ripping it is very easy to introduce a little variance in the amount of side to side force on the saw handle. That can cause the type of cut problem described in this thread. 

Seth