TS55 Kickback

[Kevin Stricker]

I am a new Festool user, and so far am really enjoying using both the TS55 and MFT3 I bought recently.  Today I did have a scary kickback happen ( twice actually) and I am trying to figure out what I was doing wrong.  I was attempting to crosscut a 2x4 off the rail using a framing triangle as a guide.  Starting the plunge with the blade centered on the wood I got about 1/2 way through and the saw kicked back.  I attempted it again ( yea I am a slow learner sometimes) and noticed this time the kickback happened when the riving knife passed behind the 2x4.  I also realized that I was cutting into a hidden knot and I had previously lowered the speed setting( to 3) to cut some plastic sheeting.

So I am just curious if it was in fact the riving knife becoming disengaged from the cut, the knot I was cutting into, or the speed setting which was the most likely culprit.  What do other users do when they have to make a quick cut in dimensional lumber, is the saw unsafe when off the rail?  Do people have 1' rails for short crosscuts?

Thanks for the advise!

 

[nickao]

You can not use a Festool saw off the rail It is not for framing lumber at all, ever.

If you do not use the guide rail you more than likely will get hurt. It's not designed to be used like that so please be careful.

 

[KorDes]

What Nickao said. If your gonna dock 2x4, get a drop/mitre saw.

 

[Frank-Jan]

  What do other users do when they have to make a quick cut in dimensional lumber, I use a regular (non plunge cut) circular saw, or sometimes a SCMS (only if it's already set-up, else it wouldn't be a "quick-cut")

is the saw unsafe when off the rail? It can be used off the rail, but it's certainly unsafer, and, because of the slippery base harder to control than a regular circular saw, I have used it off the rail occasionally, and found it works best if you use the 0 0 notch at the front of the base instead off looking at the blade during the cut 
Do people have 1' rails for short crosscuts? I do have a 800 mm rail, and yes it's very practical to use for shorter crosscuts. I have used it for siding gables (when the angle off the cut is too much for the scms)

I also have cut dimensional sometimes without the rail, but I used 2 hands on the saw, not against a straightedge (draw line with straightedge, left hand kept the saw plunged by pulling the front ot the base by the turnknob up to the auxiliary handle) and not plunging in the middle (riving knife doesn't work at the start of plungecuts)
But this method is not to recommendable, I just didn't want to go back to the van to get the proper tool for the job.

 

[johnsonri]

Using the TS55 off the rail is SCARY!!

 

[Scottrollins64]

Just a comment.  I noticed that you have said that you have the MFT3 and the TS55.  Why not use the MFT3 for the crosscut in the usual manner?  The only way I have had kickback is when cutting a bowed board on the MFT and it pinching the blade when being cut.  I have remedied that by placing a MDF spacer under keep side of the board and letting the falloff fall onto the table.

 

[tvogel400]

Bah-

I use the 55 off rail all the time-especially on construction lumber.

Kevin- first of all don't use the 48 tooth blade, I use the 28, and use the front of the foot to plunge the blade fully and then proceed with your cut.

Plunging into any thing free hand is no-no, OK. When plunging with one hand on the saw and one hand on a speed square you will almost always have a kick back.

While I will admit the beauty of the saw lies with the rail it's still a hand held circular saw. Next time your using it look  at the front of the shoe right in front

of the blade is one of those 90-45 corner alignment marks that most hand held circular saws have, and its not all that useful on the rails is it?

In fact it is probably the safest hand held circular saw available due to the plunging mechanism.

Your speed setting certainly would contribute to your problem also, keep that speed up when cutting wood.

T-bone

 

[peter halle]

Although it can be used off the rail, it was not designed to be done that way.  Human nature is to put the saw on the material to be cut, press the safety and the trigger and away we go.  The problem is that the saw is more forward into the material being cut then a "normal" circular saw is, and the motor doesn't have the time to come up to full speed.

I will use a conventional saw or miterbox although I have cheated in the past and used the 55.

Peter

 

[nickao]

Bah-

I use the 55 off rail all the time-especially on construction lumber.

Kevin- first of all don't use the 48 tooth blade, I use the 28, and use the front of the foot to plunge the blade fully and then proceed with your cut.

Plunging into any thing free hand is no-no, OK. When plunging with one hand on the saw and one hand on a speed square you will almost always have a kick back.

While I will admit the beauty of the saw lies with the rail it's still a hand held circular saw. Next time your using it look  at the front of the shoe right in front

of the blade is one of those 90-45 corner alignment marks that most hand held circular saws have, and its not all that useful on the rails is it?

In fact it is probably the safest hand held circular saw available due to the plunging mechanism.

Your speed setting certainly would contribute to your problem also, keep that speed up when cutting wood.

T-bone

You are so far off base it incredible. I do not care if you do it all the time. When you get hurt post a picture because that is NOT how the saw is to be used.

The only reason I am posting is becasue this is a safety issue and what you are saying is going to get someone hurt and hurt bad. Just became you do it a million times does not make it right and in this case you are oh so wrong. Don't ever use that square without the rail ever.

 

[nickao]

I can't fix typos, it should saw never use the SAW without the rail , not square.

Somebody with full posting rights needs to chime in as I can not believe something this dangerous and wrong is left for a restricted person to defend. I do not want to see anyone hurt, but I can not make full posts so I will leave it at that.

 

[joiner1970]

I cant see why anyone would want to use it off the rail anyway.

I would use either my mitre saw, my Makita circ saw or a hand saw for cutting 4 x 2 's etc.

Nickao, Why are you restricted whats that all about ?

 

[Kevin Stricker]

Well I would have used the MFT if it was with me...and I can't really bring two circular saws on a 4 hour job...I could but won't as I like to keep things simple.  Festool does not say the saw cannot be used w/o the base and I find it hard to believe there is not a safe way to do this simple task with a $500 saw.

It sounds like my error was 1- holding the saw one handed and 2- plunging into the middle of the piece vs plunging into an end or plunging before cutting the piece.  I do allow the saw to reach full speed before plunging, but the slow speed setting and the fine tooth blade might have increased the problem.

How about clamping the TS55 to the 2x4 then plunging or clamping the square to the piece so you have a "rail" to push against?

Anyways sounds like I touched on a sore subject?

 

[Graham]

I have used my TS55 hand held to cross cut some sawn timber before dimensioning.  Used two hands and allowed it to come up to speed before moving the blade through the wood (not plunging), much the way I would with any hand held circular saw.  Bit concerned I am doing something stupid now, can someone explain why I should not be doing this?

Thanks

Graham

 

[AlexThePalex]

Isn't it possible to lock the TS55 when you're plunged down to a certain depth?

If that were so, it would just be a normal circular saw, wouldn't it?

 

[Holzhacker]

I use my ts75 regularly off rail. It works well for me 2 handed. I wouldn't recommend it but it's NOT my place to dictate how others use their tools.

 

[nickao]

joiner1970

I said Matthew was cheap and messaged a bunch of people saying Matthew had a God complex. I guess that is why. But I can not change what I think and if I got restricted for that I will stay restricted as I said it , I meant it and I am not apologizing for it.

I would have emailed you or PM'd you but i am restricted from that so I answered you here. Again if I had PM access i would have PM'd you and left it off the board.

I ask you do not comment on it again or the thread gets trashed.

 

[nico]

I have a simple answer: I compare my Festool TS 55 to a Porsche (both German, build to last, super efficient, the best in what they do, and both expensive) , and Porches aren't built to plough fields (then you buy a John Deere (the best in what they do,build to last, super efficient and expensive as well), they are made to race autobahn's (rails), what I mean is, you buy the right tools for the right job

 

[tvogel400]

You are so far off base it incredible. I do not care if you do it all the time. When you get hurt post a picture because that is NOT how the saw is to be used.

The only reason I am posting is becasue this is a safety issue and what you are saying is going to get someone hurt and hurt bad. Just became you do it a million times does not make it right and in this case you are oh so wrong. Don't ever use that square without the rail ever.

Frankly I don't see it that way, maybe if you spent less time posting you'd be able to learn about using all of your tools' functionality.

Think about it if the saw was never meant to be used off rail why would there be a sight line guide on the shoe and why would the festool catalog list blade

depth as on the rail and off.

I'll go back and check but I'm pretty sure you- Nickao- were trying to tell me that walnut is a not a hardwood many threads ago.

Me thinks perhaps one should get off his horse and join us peasants down here in the mud.

T-bone

 

[roadking06]

I have used my TS-75 off the rails many times just as safely as any other circular saw. If you can get a Festool representative (not a salesman) or any other Festool corporate documentation that states the saw is not to be used without a quide rail to back up your bs then so be it. Otherwise go back in the corner crying about your status. YOU ARE WRONG.

 

[tvogel400]

Just to beat on a dead horse some more

Festool makes a parallel guide for the saw- Nickao please explain to me to all of us just exactly how one would use a parallel guide in conjunction with a rail.

Woodworking for me is a study in problem solving- To be really good at it you have to think "outside the box". I know my tools- I need to I use them every day

to make my living and to think that "If you use the festool ts55 saw without it's companion rail you'll put your eye out, and fingers off is just plain silly.

Nickao - you are just plain wrong. Now if someone is new to woodworking and is still getting over the fear vs respect thing maybe you should use the rail

always. Once you have a mastery of the saw then start experimenting.

After seventeen years I still have all my fingers- so go figure.

T-bone