TS55 + MFT/3 Not cutting Straight.

lasttoleave · May 31, 2015

Hello,

I've searched for this problem and read many suggestions, but I am having a strange issue with my TS55/MFT3 set up, so I was wondering if anyone has some thoughts on what it might be.

When cutting some cabinet panels on the MFT3 recently, I was using one of the freshly cut edges and two clamps as a stop for some repetive cuts and noticed that as I butted the boards together, even two freshly cut edges did not meet nicely and there was some gap at one end of the board. I then managed to detect that this was happening at the front edge of the cuts (when starting the cut) so I went on test a few things..

I thought it could be the plunging action introducing some force or movement so I added sacrificial pieces in front of the panels but they still came out with this problem. I checked the saw was fitted firmly to the rail with the cam adjustments too.

Using a few very good straight edges I can rule out my measuring equipment, and I cannot detect any real rock/bend in the rail itself. I clamped my boards to the MFT when making test cuts, so nothing is moving during the cut. I applied little to no forward/sideward pressure, I've tried plunging at the start of the panel and way before the cut, using sacrificial boards to support the rail with no change

I then thought it might be my MFT brackets, so I used some rail dogs, clamped the board down, but the result was still exactly the same so I can rule out the attachment of my guide rail as the issue.

The gaps I am seeing are consistently something like 0.25-0.50mm which feathers to nothing approximately 40-50mm in from the edge then the rest is dead straight. With the boards clamped in a vice and holding the straight edges at 90 degress to the edge, the gap is always in the same place, and always at the front edge of the freshly cut edge, which suggest either something is wrong with my guide rail, or the way in which I am entering a cut.. but I am running out of things to try.

Nothing really indicates the saw is causing the issue, but I am open to all ideas and suggestions! ;D

Birdhunter · May 31, 2015

Any way you can butt the guide rail along something you know to be straight? That would tell you if the rail is the problem.

I had some left/right movement at the front end of my MFT guide rail when I bought the table. I added a Slop-Stop and have zero play now.

flair woodworks · May 31, 2015

If you make a cut under the rail, it should match the profile of the rail's splinter guard. But what do you see if you turn the board around and butt it up against the rail's splinter guard? Any gap? If so, where?

NL-mikkla · May 31, 2015

How fast do you clamp the rail down to the board?
I have seen/read when clamping to firmley you press the anti slip making the rail to rise a bit.

ear3 · May 31, 2015

That's strange -- I had a similar problem, but at the back end of the cut. Since there is no bevel lock at the back of the TS55, it can sometimes happen that the rear of the saw is at a slightly different angle. So at the end of the cut, if you don't push the saw all the way through, there will be a different angle for the last inch or so. But as to what's going on in your case, it beats me. Is the rail supported all the way through-- meaning you have scrap of same thickness as workpiece holding up the rail behind the saw?

tjbnwi · May 31, 2015

Is the saw up to speed before you enter the work piece?

Use a narrower piece for a test cut, if the problem persists it's not the guide rail.

Tom

Joints · Jun 1, 2015

I had the exact same problem when trimming less than the blade width off some 18mm english oak.

How much are you taking off?

lasttoleave · Jun 2, 2015

Thanks for all the suggestions, to answer each questionm in turn;

Birdhunter said:
Any way you can butt the guide rail along something you know to be straight? That would tell you if the rail is the problem.

I had some left/right movement at the front end of my MFT guide rail when I bought the table. I added a Slop-Stop and have zero play now.

I have noticed this and removed the play with soem tape, but to further remove this as a apossible cause I used my rail on a diffferent surface using clamps, and also used rail dogs on the MFT so I don't think it's possible this is the cause as the issue occures in the same section of the cut each time.

Chris Wong said:
If you make a cut under the rail, it should match the profile of the rail's splinter guard. But what do you see if you turn the board around and butt it up against the rail's splinter guard? Any gap? If so, where?

My splinter guard doesn't really indicate much at all because I have found that after a fresh cut, there is a vewry very tiny lip from the splinteguard and the edge that has just been cut, Implying that the that the splinterguard does not truly replicate the cut being made by the saw, I'm not sure why this is but it does mean that at some point the blade has shaved the splinterguard slightly in a previous cut. Maybe someone has an idea as to the why this is? I don't think it's related to this issue as I find this tiny lip on every cut made with the MFT regardless of how carefully I set things up/hold the saw etc. But it would be good to know why this is the case.

NL-mikkla said:
How fast do you clamp the rail down to the board?
I have seen/read when clamping to firmley you press the anti slip making the rail to rise a bit.

I've tried using Rail dogs, clamps and the stock MFT fixtures so I can't see this causing the problem unfortunately.

Edward A Reno III said:
That's strange -- I had a similar problem, but at the back end of the cut. Since there is no bevel lock at the back of the TS55, it can sometimes happen that the rear of the saw is at a slightly different angle. So at the end of the cut, if you don't push the saw all the way through, there will be a different angle for the last inch or so. But as to what's going on in your case, it beats me. Is the rail supported all the way through-- meaning you have scrap of same thickness as workpiece holding up the rail behind the saw?

I've tried putting scrap the same thickness in front of the cut but not behind (yet). I can't see a reason to as the gap appears at the front of the cut only.BUt this scrap doesn't seem to affect the cut which would indicate it isn't how the saw is entering a cut.. but an issue with that specific section of the rail/MFT set up, but again, this seems less liekyl than my technique being at fault!

tjbnwi said:
Is the saw up to speed before you enter the work piece?

Use a narrower piece for a test cut, if the problem persists it's not the guide rail.

Tom

I'm unsure on the initial cuts, but when using a scrap piece in front of the panel, the saw must be up to full speeed when it enters the real panel, so I'd have to say yes for the purposes of finding the issue.

I am going to cut 4 boards, one the full "length" of the MFT (set up in it's usual position) and 4 others until I am basically just cross cuting some 4" Ply. I'll report back and see if it indicates it's the way the saw enters the cut of a specific section of the Rail/MFT.

Joints said:
I had the exact same problem when trimming less than the blade width off some 18mm english oak.

How much are you taking off?

I thought of that but the blade has seen very little work so I'd be suprised if it was struggling with either task. I've been shaving a mm off, and cutting a good 50mm off the panel as means of testing.. so I don't think this is linked to the issue.

The ply is only 15mm thick, and the saw doesn't seem to struggle, so I think the stock blade is coping okay.

I'll make some more test cuts of varying length and report back. Thanks!

Brice Burrell · Jun 2, 2015

From what you are describing I'd a possibility is you're cutting panels that are the full width of the MFT with the saw's base partially off the rail as you start the cut. The rear adjustment gib is off the rail and causing a bad cut on the first couple of inches of the piece. I think this is a little unlikely since it is something you'd catch pretty quickly. Another unlikely one would be if you entering the cut too fast causing some deflection of the blade at the start of the cut. Also, as Joints mentioned, cutting off small amounts, like less than a saw blade can cause the blade to deflect.

lasttoleave · Jun 5, 2015

Brice Burrell said:
From what you are describing I'd a possibility is you're cutting panels that are the full width of the MFT with the saw's base partially off the rail as you start the cut. The rear adjustment gib is off the rail and causing a bad cut on the first couple of inches of the piece. I think this is a little unlikely since it is something you'd catch pretty quickly. Another unlikely one would be if you entering the cut too fast causing some deflection of the blade at the start of the cut. Also, as Joints mentioned, cutting off small amounts, like less than a saw blade can cause the blade to deflect.

The base is definitely on the rail as I have the deflector fitted for every cut, so that's not an issue. I've tried entering the cuts from just about every angle, and sensible variation of speed including the saw's speed but nothing makes any difference.

I used my Rail Dogs again for my most recent test cuts, and this time I made sure they spanned the width of the MFT to rule out something regarding the usual space of the table.. I had the same results. I then swapped out the ply for some 18mm MDF and although the results were the same initially, I managed to reduce almost all of the issue by having a sacrificial piece in front of my boards. This is good, but really not what I was hoping for as I'm not always going to have scrap the right thickness/dimensions and it's just quite a lot of waste to have to do this for every cut. This does mean though that it is not the rail, but the saw itself or the wat it's entering the cut.

The saw is only a couple of months old, so the blade hasn't seen any heavy usage whatsoever, and the saw seems to function fine but I am wondering what is causing this inaccuracy at the start of each cut. Does anyone think it could be a problem with the saw or the blade?

lasttoleave · Jun 8, 2015

After a bit more testing I have concluded it must be some movement/deflection of the blade at the begining of a cut, I can't see what else it may be. I have contacted festool and will see whether they think it is more likely to be the blade or the saw at fault. But hopefully either way it will be resolved quickly.

Thanks again for the advice!

harry_ · Jun 9, 2015

I had a similar issue years back and found it to be slop where the nib meets the underside of the rail. My solution was to set the nib plate on the MFT ever so slightly out of perfect alignment. By that I mean that the rail will NOT just drop down on it, I have to tug it to the left just a wee bit.

There is the potential for this to put the rail slightly out of square. Adjust accordingly.

Laminator · Jun 9, 2015

I do have one 48 tooth blade that simply refuses to cut properly. I keep it in the van for the rare occasion that I have to cut something that might have nails in it.

Just saying that your blade could have something to do with your problem. If the blade cuts fine on other rails but acts up on the mft rail, then its probably not the blade.

lasttoleave · Jun 9, 2015

harry_ said:
I had a similar issue years back and found it to be slop where the nib meets the underside of the rail. My solution was to set the nib plate on the MFT ever so slightly out of perfect alignment. By that I mean that the rail will NOT just drop down on it, I have to tug it to the left just a wee bit.

There is the potential for this to put the rail slightly out of square. Adjust accordingly.

I am aware of the play in the rail but I eliminated rail movement from the equation by using rail dogs and also removing the aforementioned play.. It is not a case of the cut not being square but the actuall straigthness of the edge.

Laminator said:
I do have one 48 tooth blade that simply refuses to cut properly. I keep it in the van for the rare occasion that I have to cut something that might have nails in it.

Just saying that your blade could have something to do with your problem. If the blade cuts fine on other rails but acts up on the mft rail, then its probably not the blade.

It's hard to tell if it behaves exactly the same on my other 1400 rail, but it seems more likely to be a blade issue I hope! I'm expecting a reponse from Festool soon so hopefully they can advise me with a solution. I can only assume it is either the blade acting up or the saw itself allowing some play/deflection of the blade when it enters a cut. Either way I'm sure it'll be dealt with easily enough.

Kuffs · Apr 25, 2017

Hi All, This is my first post on FOG. I have jumped on this topic as I have had the same problem. I have overcome the issue (Kind of) but, to be honest I have come on here to get my frustration off my chest. Imagine my excitement, finally I have found the money (£550) to purchase an MFT3. I also purchased the Parf dogs to aid set up, as so many people recommend them. So, I set everything up as precisely as possible, following guidance from this site and Youtube etc. I should add that all the advice was spot on and I was able to square the fence to the rail accurately. So what is the problem I here you ask? Well, the problem is that it still wouldn't cut square. After spending hours trying to resolve the problem, I discovered somewhere on FOG, that if you hold the rail down tight to the work-piece, the problem would go away. Although I was rather sceptical, I thought I would try it, and blow me down if it fixed the issue. So I have paid £550 for a piece of kit that I have to manually assist, in order to get accurately square cuts from. Not only that but another piece of advice was to purchase a slop-stop modification that might overcome the problem. So if I've got this right, I have a brand new MFT3 that I have to pay to modify, in order to make it work as it should have done straight out of the factory?

Quite honestly, this might well be the last thing I buy from Festool and it's not just because of this issue. I also have a OF1010 router that I can't plunge without it offering great resistance in-spite of it being brand new at the time and my keeping it clean and applying light machine oil to the bearing surface. I'm the sort of person that takes really good care of his tools, so I hate to think how they would perform if I used them day in and day out. I could go on about the break on the CTL Midi jamming up a day after I got it and the spring on the plug cover coming adrift. I must need my head testing paying out my hard earned cash on these overpriced tools. I should conclude that I am not anti Festool, as the concept of what they are doing is very good, it's just not very well executed! I'm hoping someone on here might convince me otherwise.

peter halle · Apr 25, 2017

Welcome the forum! Sorry to here about the circumstances that have lead you here and are reflected in your post. In an effort to change your mind I can say that if everyone had the same experiences or even similar experiences as you we wouldn't have a forum full of Festool users - especially all those who are willing to help out others.

Are there some quirks with the tools? Sure. Some real issues? Yep. Ways to solve, work around, get cured? Absolutely.

Hope to see you back here again and feel free to ask questions if you need some assistance.

Peter

antss · Apr 25, 2017

Kufs - why don't you just return them under the no questions asked trial policy ?

Especially the ones that broke one day in ?

Kuffs · Apr 26, 2017

Hi Peter and antss. Thank you for your responses. There is of course no doubt that both of you are correct in your replies. As I said, I really wanted to vent my frustration and the forum seemed like a good place to do it ;-) I guess I hoped that someone from Festool might see what I had written and have a comment to make. The main point was that these tools are very expensive, and we as users should not have to be finding workarounds to make them work, as they should when they come out of the factory. I wouldn't buy a Rolls Royce and expect to hold the doors closed with sticky tape, just because they couldn't quite master getting door catches to work properly. Please don't read these comments as an attack on yourselves or anyone else on the forum. Like you, I enjoy woodwork and love tools and machinery. It just feels very unjust that these machines don't do what they should at the price we pay for them. Thank you again for your responses, they are greatly appreciated.

Holmz · Apr 26, 2017

So I think the possible mechanisms include:
The rail
The saw
The blade

If you can cut an edge and then bump the peice over and make another cut then you could measure and see if those cuts are repeatable and leave a constant width.

Repeat the process yet a third time. But this time use a jig saw to relieve a saw blade width in the middle or in 2 places. If those cuts have a lead-in or outgoing taper, then it must be the blade or the saw pulling over.

Try making a shallow 1-2 mm deep scoring cut first. If the full depth cut is pulling the blade away them some evidence make remain on the good or waste side of the cut wood.

A straight edge can tell if the cut is straight, which you already know it is not.
A cut with the other rail could use the straight edge to see if that makes a straight cut. If it does then that may indicate the rail has a jiggle in it.

antss · Apr 26, 2017

Kuffs - I agree with you wholeheartedly.

It's just that sometimes the path of least resistance is the best one. You shouldn't have to futz with this gear but users have shown that sometimes you do. What you can count on is Festool, because of their arrogance or stubbornness is not going to change any it.

We as customers just have to decide if we like the upside more than the quirks and stinkers they produce.

TS55 + MFT/3 Not cutting Straight.

Festool Moderator