TS55 Track Saw grinding noise

[Kirk]

So I've had my TS55 since March and have used it several times. I already researched and even tested one at a store in Las Vegas. It makes the grinding type noise at start up but it also makes the same noise while cutting(1/2" plywood)all the way through the cut, if you stop the noise stops until you continue through the cut. The finish cut seems smooth as far as I can tell. The one I tested didn't seem to make that noise while cutting. So should I send this back to festool before it turns a year old and have them look at it. I have since added a E36 Dust Extractor and a OF1010 router, yes you all were right they multiply fast.
Thanks for any suggestions

Kirk

 

[Holmz]

Did both your's and the one in the SinCity store make the grinding noise? or just your's?

 

[Shane Holland]

Kirk,

This is normal. If you do a search on the forum, you'll see it addressed quite a bit.  [wink]

No need for alarm or concern.

Shane

 

[Kirk]

Just mine, don't remember the sincity one making noise after start up, only mad a 18" cut on 1/2" material on a MFT/3

 

[Kirk]

Hi Shane, I know I read alot of posts when I first got mine. But I thought the noise was only suppose to be  heard on start up and not while cutting. Thanks

 

[Shane Holland]

Hi Shane, I know I read alot of posts when I first got mine. But I thought the noise was only suppose to be  heard on start up and not while cutting. Thanks

The saw is constantly monitoring and adjusting the motor speed. This prevents burning the wood during the cut, as well as cut quality.

[member=191]Rick Christopherson[/member] would be able to speak from a technical perspective what's going on.

In the end, if you're concerned, I would suggest giving Lester and the guys at Festool USA service a call before deciding to send the saw in. If it was purchased new, you have a full 3-year warranty with free shipping during that entire period.

 

[Holmz]

...
[member=191]Rick Christopherson[/member] would be able to speak from a technical perspective what's going on.
...

Could have to do with the magnetised part in the Canadian's teardown video and hall effect sensor that it was next to?

 

[nickao]

Mine always made the grinding noise and not just at start up. It didn't effect the saw at all. I hated that sound so much I went to a Makita to replace the TS 55 and never looked back.

That sound may theoretically may make the saw better, but I can say my Makita outperforms my TS 55 without the sound.

 

[semenza]

...
[member=191]Rick Christopherson[/member] would be able to speak from a technical perspective what's going on.
...

Could have to do with the magnetised part in the Canadian's teardown video and hall effect sensor that it was next to?

Lets not go guessing at the problem. Or start a tear down debate. The noise is generally normal for the saw. A call to Festool service will be a good idea.

Kirk, try varying the speed (travel  / push speed/ feed rate) while cutting and see if the sound changes. Varying the feed rate will cause the saws electronics to respond and the sound should change accordingly as it adjusts. This can be an elimination test to help see if there really is a problem.

Seth

 

[Holmz]

...
[member=191]Rick Christopherson[/member] would be able to speak from a technical perspective what's going on.
...

Could have to do with the magnetised part in the Canadian's teardown video and hall effect sensor that it was next to?

Lets not go guessing at the problem. Or start a tear down debate. The noise is generally normal for the saw. A call to Festool service will be a good idea.

Kirk, try varying the speed (travel  / push speed/ feed rate) while cutting and see if the sound changes. Varying the feed rate will cause the saws electronics to respond and the sound should change accordingly as it adjusts. This can be an elimination test to help see if there really is a problem.

Seth

Well caught! It was a reference to the tear-down video.
However it is hardly a guess at the problem, as there is effectively an RPM sensor and it is part of a closed loop control which are "the electronics".

So while it is normal for these saws, it does not seem to be the norm with some people perceptions of normality... So it is unique.

There are effectively three options:
1) It is something that one needs to adjust themselves to
2) FT engineers could make some adjustment of the feedback controller to minimize "the grinding".
3) The owner decides not to use the tool

A call to Festool does help address towards solution #1
TADTS (They All Do That Sir).
And you're 100% correct that the loading rate will affect the RPM control feedback, and may reduce the grinding to a level that is perceptually "better".

#2)
Also in the tear down video the Canadian mentioned a 5-pin connector and postulated that it could be for programming the unit.
That seems like a guess.
Whether it is better to have a saw with faster response time to adjust the speed, or to have less of "the grinding noise", is a combination of the mechanical engineers and the NVH (Noise Vibration and harshness) domain experts.
If it was possible to make saw more appealing to more users, then #2 seems like the optimum approach.

#3) ... al'la Dovetail

 

[Rick Christopherson]

[member=191]Rick Christopherson[/member] would be able to speak from a technical perspective what's going on.

Oops. My main computer is offline for some maintenance work (read: hair pulling) and I didn't see this discussion until now.

Yes, the growling sound is a function of the Pulse-Width-Modulation (PWM) of the speed control. Even though it is less pronounced and less frequent, it does still happen during cuts as the saw still needs to monitor and control its speed for a changing load. The PWM controller varies the power (hence the speed) to the motor by turning it on and off very rapidly. The same thing is happening in other motors, such as routers, but the reason why you don't hear it is because those ire direct-drive motors, but the TS-saws have a pinion and spur gear set driving the blade (at a reduced speed than the motor itself).

The sound you are hearing is the gear-lash, where the gear teeth are engaging and disengaging rapidly as the motor is cycled on and off. It happens so fast you don't notice it, except you can hear this gear lash, especially when the controller is trying to slow the motor down.

As long as the topic was already brought up, the helical (spiral) gear teeth mentioned in that review video, are specifically chosen to help reduce the amount of lash. Spiral gears mesh together smoother than straight gears. This reduces the amount of lash between the teeth. The sound would be even more pronounced if the pinion and spur gears used straight-ground teeth.

 

[Kirk]

Thanks much for the replys and suggestions. I'll just keep cutting away. I was to believe the free shipping was only for the 1st year.
Thanks,

Kirk

 

[semenza]

Thanks much for the replys and suggestions. I'll just keep cutting away. I was to believe the free shipping was only for the 1st year.
Thanks,

Kirk

That used to be the case but it is now both ways all three years.

Seth

 

[nickao]

I am glad Rick cleared that up because I always heard the grinding through the entire cut myself.  I was told by so many that I was simply wrong my saw couldn't make the grind during the cut and if it did it was broken. But I knew the saw worked perfectly.

Maybe some of the saws just  have a more pronounced grinding during the cutting than others or maybe some don't notice the grind during the cut  because the start up grinding noise is a bit louder than the grinding noise during the cut. I assume the decrease in the grind noise during the cut is a function of how the saw works.

I think I may go back to a Festool track saw just to get the newer HKC Cordless trimming saws, Ill have to live with the grinding again.

 

[aas]

I haven't noticed a grinding noise from the HKC. It spins up very smoothly, revs drop a bit if cutting to max depth, but very nice saw.