TS60 doesn't switch off midi extractor

[modeztas]

Bought TS60 and after using for longer period this issue started to be very annoying.
I will attach a video link below to understand better what is happening.
Other Festool tools works well they cuts off vac after 1-2s when motors stops.
I thought maybe it's kick back led light, but even when the light goes down, vac still runs.
Tried to Festool customer support, didn't get any reasonable explanation, only to make sure you plug the cord to the vac socket, still waiting for response.

Anyone has some thoughts?

 

[squall_line]

Do you have any other tools or even a lamp that you can plug in to test whether it's the tool or the CT?

My guess is that the board in the CT is on its way out, but only have a single test sample size.

 

[modeztas]

Yes I tested with other tools ant there's no issues, vac works as it should be. This happens only when ts60 is plugged in.

 

[R Ham]

Have you got any updates yet? I have the same issue unfortunately.

 

[mino]

This would be failing electronics and/or compatibility issue.

The TS 60 has new brushless motor with full-electronics power delivery circuitry. That type of circuitry tends to create all kinds of havoc with magnetised components along the power lines. Similar problems happen with full-electronic-control motors and certain GFCI circuit breaker types that work 100% reliably with brushed motors. The issue there is that a highly irregular current load can "semi-permanently-magnetise" them so they "stick" and do not engage when they should. I can see a similar effect happen to a current/load sensor in the CT which is actually an "induced magnetism" sensor under the hood.

That means this can be related to the electronic board failing, but not necessarily. For this type of a problem to manifest, it is possible to be cumulative over a certain usage pattern. So casual compatibility testing may not catch stuff like this no matter the effort.

To rule out a "magnetisation" theory from uneven current load, when this happens pull the plug from the vac. If the vac turns off, it is not a simple semi-permanent magnetisation issue of the vac control board.

Can still be a compatibility problem between input capacitors on the TS60 and the load-detection circuitry in the vac. For full-electronic control devices, there is no "mechanical" power switch, so the input capacitors are not disconnected and as the "L/live" is connected to them, the current pulsing to the cap and back can be enough to trigger the "there is something powered on" sensor that monitors the wire. That sensor also "magnetises" over time, and degrades too .. so may also manifest only over time. This behaviour would require the saw to be plugged to work while pure "magnetisation" of the sensor will mis-behave regardless if a saw is plugged or not. Hence it is good to rule-out the first scenario first.

All rumblings aside, this is the type of stuff that is extremely hard to diagnose. So my advice is be stiff but patient with Festool service.

You may need multiple back-forth to properly diagnose this. Make sure to video the behaviour if you can before sending in anything for service. If sending for service, I would push to send both tools as it is most likely different tools combination will "work just fine". Even the same tool pair may "work just fine" after unplugged for a week or so and observe problems again only when in continuous use. Etc. Tricky.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

That seems odd. If there was enough of a power draw, while resting, it should make the CT come on as soon as it is plugged in.
Since it's triggering on properly, seems like that can't be the issue. I would guess that it's more of a CT problem, than a TS problem? Maybe the Midi just isn't seeing the disconnect?
Though it has never been plugged into a Midi, my TS60 has worked flawlessly with a CT26 and CT15, daily and for nearly 2 years.

 

[mino]

That seems odd. If there was enough of a power draw, while resting, it should make the CT come on as soon as it is plugged in.
Since it's triggering on properly, seems like that can't be the issue. I would guess that it's more of a CT problem, than a TS problem? Maybe the Midi just isn't seeing the disconnect?
Though it has never been plugged into a Midi, my TS60 has worked flawlessly with a CT26 and CT15, daily and for nearly 2 years.

There can easily be a combination - running the saw for prolonged period magnetises the detecting sensor enough for it to "keep seeing" "ON" from the connected power supply on the TS 60. Change any part of the equation, and "no issue".

And all kinds of combinations, can happen only when certain series of the saws get combined with certain series of the CTs. When certain load patters are involved. Etc.

Electromagnetic compatibility quirks can be a real pain to diagnose without the proper kit on hand. In the IT world, electronic power supplies are the norm for like four decades. Yet the EM compatibility is still not "a solved problem". Everyone serious about reliability does expensive manual compatibility testing/validation ..

 

[morts10n]

I have a newer TS 60 and a Bluetooth Midi and have had zero issues. Absolutely love the TS 60 compared to the TS 55req

 

[Coen]

Even the programmed behavior of the Midi-I is wrong and when asked about it I never got a substantive answer from Festool either, so I'm not really surprised on that.

If you unplug it, does it stop?

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=8955]Coen[/member] what do you mean by that? I have never used a Midi, what's different?

 

[Coen]

[member=8955]Coen[/member] what do you mean by that? I have never used a Midi, what's different?

I have this usecase; for electrical boxes we drill a blind 82mm hole in the wall. As you probably already know from my previous posts, we aren't big on these sheetgood walls in Europe. So the 'victim wall' is usually either concrete, aerated concrete, sandlime brick, ceramic hollow brick or just plain old massive bricks. All but the last I drill with a diamond hollow core bit. The first one (concrete) I do with a SDS-Max hammer machine using a 82mm carbide-tipped hammer core bit.

So either you need one of the machines with the telescopic dust hood that goes over the 82mm bit, and I do... but not in SDS-Max. So for concrete... I attach a Bosch GDE 162 to the wall. It's one of those things you attach to the dust extractor. It has a low pressure chamber to suck itself to the wall, surround the area you are drilling and extract the fine dust at the same time.

Ok... so vac turned on manually, GDE 162 put on the wall, plug hammer drill into CTL, start drilling hole. So far, so good. Then turn off the hammer drill and remove the pilot bit. Now here is where the trouble occurs. The CTL 26 will stay on but the CTL Midi-I _WILL TURN OFF_ despite having been manually turned on. Result; with the CTL 26 you can continue drilling the remainder of the hole. With the CTL Midi-I the dust extraction hood drops to the floor. And that annoys me to no end. If I have manually turned on the CTL... I expect to manually turn it off, not having the CTL decide on it's own to suddenly having switched to auto.

See here;

[attachimg=1]
You can see the extension cord on the photo... and the only reason it's there is to work around the stupid Midi-I behaviour.

As for the slit from the 82mm hole to the outlet above; I have a wall chaser for that, but this short run wasn't worth it using it. So I just drill a line of holes and chisel it a bit.

For these hollow walls you have in the USA we have a different kind of box. It requires only a 76mm hole.

The Germans sometimes use a different type of box for the same outlets, requiring 68mm hole. But if two next to each other... the spacing is 71mm, so they have to chisel after drilling two holes. With the 82mm boxes there is no such problem. The Belgians have the same outlets too... and a lot of of them are still using square boxes, using an angle grinder to cut a square in the wall. Apparently those square boxes are $0.30 cheaper than the round boxes and they don't value their labor that much  [huh]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

The Belgians have the same outlets too... and a lot of of them are still using square boxes, using an angle grinder to cut a square in the wall. Apparently those square boxes are $0.30 cheaper than the round boxes and they don't value their labor that much  [huh]

Yeah, that's just silly. I would rather drill a round hole than to make it square, all day long, especially in hard materials.

As far as the Midi shutting off, while manually turned on, does seem annoying, though I would venture to guess that someone likes it that way  [huh]
This has to be a function of the membrane type switch. This disruption would be more difficult with the truly manual switch, of the CT26.
I wonder if the CT15 would do the same? I have never had this situation