TSC 55 vs HKC 55 - Which would you choose?

[thudchkr]

I'm thinking about going to a cordless tracksaw.  While it would be nice to have both, that ain't gonna happen at this point.  As such, I'm looking for opinions. 

I do a fair amount of work away from the shop. Work includes rough carpentry, remodeling and finish carpentry as far as woodworking goes.  I currently have a TS 55 and a TS 75 that I use in the shop as well as on site. I have a good selection of the FS rails for the two saws. Travel vac is a Fein. I have two different Milwaukee M18 Fuel cordless circular saws, as well a large complement of other Milwaukee tools in both M12 and M18 platforms.

For those of you who care to offer an opinion, which one would you choose?  Also some background as to the why would be helpful.

(I did read the recent thread about cordless Festool and that sparked my thread here.)

Thanks in advance.

Clint

 

[ear3]

Given that you already have both sizes of corded tracksaws, logic would seem to point to the HKC.  As I've commented many times in other threads, I prefer the performance and power of the TSC55 to the corded version, but you're not going to gain all that much from going with the cordless saw (other than portability), since you already have the extra power of the TS75.

One thing about the HKC -- I've found the extra long 670 FSK rail to be extremely useful, and to replace a lot of the smaller panel cutting I would previously do with the TSC after taking the time to set up and square the rail (my shop is too small to keep my MFT set up full time).  I will still do money cuts with the TSC, since the 670 rail will sometimes be off 1/64, but for casual panel cutting it is the fastest solution I currently have.

I suppose I should mention one other permutation, though I don't personally own this accessory -- adding the guide rail square from TSO products gives you speed and repeatability on your tracksaw similar to the HKC, although the saw still separates from the rail:https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/grs-16-guide-rail-square/

 

[Birdhunter]

I handled the HKC55 intending to buy it. Decided not. If I was doing a lot of rough carpentry, it would be great. I’ll stick with the TS55. It is far better suited for my work.

 

[rst]

Thudchkr, much like you I have a 55 and 75 that remain shop bound.  I also have multiple Milwaukee 12 and 18v tools, at least 12.  I bought the HKC last year and soon after the cordless Carvex.  When I bought the HKC, I bought all three rails.  First project out I built a deck for my daughter.  The different rails allowed me to fab the stringers in under 20 minutes.  The short rail was much easier than dragging my chop saw on site.  I sold my Milwaukee wood circular saw but kept my steel cutter.  Since than I've bought a PDC 18/4 and intend to sell my Milwaukee hammer drill.  That being said NO one could separate me from my Milwaukee hydraulic impact driver.  I mostly work professionally with steel, aluminum, plastics, glass, and wood.

 

[Jmacpherson]

The HKC55 is more versatile than the TSC55 imho when used on the FSK rails and it also works on your existing FS rails.
The HKC can also use all your existing TS55 blades, so you don't have to buy brand new blades.
TSC55 has better dust extraction although the HKC55 is surprisingly very good and the TSC55 will give you splinter free cuts on both sides of the cut because of the splinter guard.

Personally, I've trimmed an interior door with my HKC55 using its 32tooth fine blade and cross cut 38mm pressure treated pine with both the 18tooth and 32tooth blades without problems.
I've never really ripped with it though, only used it on 3mm plywood laid on top of 20mm pine to give it support. Used the 12tooth panther blade and it went +/- 2mm into the pine underneath and it charged through it - wasn't really a challenge but it was like butter

I did read somewhere the other day that some guys are using the Panther blade for cross cutting during framing tasks and find the saw more appropriate? I don't use the saw professionally and I've never had an issue with the 18 or 32 tooth before.
Maybe others can chime in on how effective this would be.

If you want a pure cordless track saw then TSC is obvious choice, if you want a cordless saw which works on FS rails and gives you flexibility within the Festool line then HKC.

Alternatively perhaps you can find a 3rd party adapter to attach your Milwaukee saws onto your rails as a compromise?

 

[Lettusbee]

The HKC55 is ridiculously underpowered.  To call it a "framing"  saw is an insult to common sense.  I also have found the fsk rail to be off by 1 degree, with no way to adjust it to zero.

I am very disappointed with this saw.   

 

[thudchkr]

Given that you already have both sizes of corded tracksaws, logic would seem to point to the HKC.  As I've commented many times in other threads, I prefer the performance and power of the TSC55 to the corded version, but you're not going to gain all that much from going with the cordless saw (other than portability), since you already have the extra power of the TS75.

One thing about the HKC -- I've found the extra long 670 FSK rail to be extremely useful, and to replace a lot of the smaller panel cutting I would previously do with the TSC after taking the time to set up and square the rail (my shop is too small to keep my MFT set up full time).  I will still do money cuts with the TSC, since the 670 rail will sometimes be off 1/64, but for casual panel cutting it is the fastest solution I currently have.

I suppose I should mention one other permutation, though I don't personally own this accessory -- adding the guide rail square from TSO products gives you speed and repeatability on your tracksaw similar to the HKC, although the saw still separates from the rail:https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/grs-16-guide-rail-square/

I do have the TSO guide rail square and am quite pleased with it's performance. Matching that to my FS 800 rail would probably be a good fit with the HKC, though it wouldn't be connected to the rail.

Do you find the 670 rail to be cumbersome in use?  As mentioned, it would be nicer to have the 250 and 670 rails together. The 420 appears to be the compromise between them. It'd be nice to have the convenience of the two rails, but whether it's worth the expense at this time would be the question to bee answered.

Appreciate your comments.

Clint

 

[thudchkr]

The HKC55 is ridiculously underpowered.  To call it a "framing"  saw is an insult to common sense.  I also have found the fsk rail to be off by 1 degree, with no way to adjust it to zero.

I am very disappointed with this saw. 

Have others found the saw to be "ridiculously underpowered" as well?  Current project plans for its use include a small deck of Trex, and siding a shed with LP SmartSide siding. The deck is already framed, other than a couple steps, so not a whole lot of PT framing members to cut.

I wouldn't expect the saw to replace a dedicated corded framing saw, but would like for it to be able to handle smaller jobs on it's own.

I've seen a couple comments on the FSK rail being inaccurate.  What is the consensus from other?  Would this be a "warranty" issue that Festool would make good on? Is this inaccuracy at all settings or only happen on miter cuts?  Needless to say, the saw will primarily be doing straight cutoffs, but accurate miter cuts would be expected as well.

Thanks again.

Clint

 

[Ptk16]

I do not know what the implications are, and people seem to do it, but the HKC blades are thinner than the TS blades (1.8mm vs 2.2mm).

 

[pixelated]

I've been using my HK55 quite a lot recently for my summer carpentry projects on my house. Can't speak to the power of the HKC since mine is the corded one, but it did fine cutting a 4x6 Doug Fir post to length (4 cuts). The end of the post was perfectly square and smooth. That said, some recent cuts with my 420 rail were slightly off by maybe 1/2 degree, and I haven't determined if it's due to the rail or technique. Based on my earlier results, I'm giving the edge to technique. However, it probably would be better if the angle stops on the rail were metal instead of plastic, and a way to fine tune the stops would be lovely.

I find it a little fiddly to use the HK on the regular rails, but I'm getting the mechanics of that down, I switch pretty seamlessly from cuts using the FSK rail to the regular one now.

My main two issues with the HK is that the plunging needs a fair bit of force which makes it easy to shift the regular rail unless it's clamped, and I'd really like to be able to adjust the cutting depth while the saw is retracted for plunging.

 

[ear3]

I have not found the saw to be underpowered for the work I do, which is mostly straight offcuts, including in 2x hardwood.  I think where the power might become an issue is in doing rips in thick boards and bevel cuts.

 

[Cheese]

I like the HKC and also don't find it underpowered for what I'm using it for. I've installed a CMT diamond blade (236.160.04H) on it and am cutting all the cement backer board for a bath remodel using it on the standard FS/2 guide rails.
I'm also using the standard dust bag on the saw (outside) and am very impressed with the level of dust containment. If I were to cut this stuff indoors, I'd definitely swap out the bag for a vac.

As far as the difference in blade thickness (1.8mm vs 2.2mm), I think that was to extend the battery run time as the HKC only packs 1 battery vs the 2 that are aboard the TSC.

 

[Jmacpherson]

I have not found the saw to be underpowered for the work I do, which is mostly straight offcuts, including in 2x hardwood.  I think where the power might become an issue is in doing rips in thick boards and bevel cuts.

Agree, I performed a cross cut with a 45 * bevel using the 32t blade and it went through 38x76mm thick pressure treated wood just as test. It coped fine but I think the 18t standard blade would have been better - will try it out the next time I use it for my own info

 

[Jmacpherson]

I have not found the saw to be underpowered for the work I do, which is mostly straight offcuts, including in 2x hardwood.  I think where the power might become an issue is in doing rips in thick boards and bevel cuts.

Agree, I performed a cross cut with a 45 * bevel using the 32t blade and it went through 38x76mm thick pressure treated wood just as test. It coped fine but I think the 18t standard blade would have been better - will try it out the next time I use it for my own info

[member=44099]Cheese[/member], I recall when the HKC came out that if you had trimmed your FS rail with your TS55 (2.2mm) blade, the HKC (1.8mm) would be flush with the splinterguard by default or you could set the HKC to be?
I could never establish this because I bought mine in reverse order.

 

[Cheese]

I recall when the HKC came out that if you had trimmed your FS rail with your TS55 (2.2mm) blade, the HKC (1.8mm) would be flush with the splinterguard by default or you could set the HKC to be?

You're correct...and it's also interesting to note that the HKC and TSC both came from Festool with the same exact amount of blade offset. I didn't realize this until I had cut some ply previously with both saws. Then one day rather than going to the basement to collect one of them I decided to grab the TS 55 from the garage. I placed the splinter strip on the pencil line, made the cut and realized the pencil line was still there along with about 1/16" extra material.

Luckily, there was enough adjustment with the TS 55 to match the offset of the HKC & TSC.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Have others found the saw to be "ridiculously underpowered" as well?.. 

I would say the HKC is underpowered as an everyday framing saw, for smaller framing jobs the HKC is fine.  I'm assuming the guy saying it is "ridiculously underpowered" might be comparing it to a worm drive saw.  To that I'd counter with, what cordless saw isn't ridiculously underpowered compared to a worm drive?

I forgot to add, my rail seems to cut square.

 

 

[Lettusbee]

When I say ridiculously underpowered, I mean it is very weak for a cordless saw.  Zero torque.  Blade RPM Should also be increased. 
It is comparable to the Dewalt 18v Cordless saw that they were selling in the late 90s.  The one with the 5-3/8" Blade.  I am very familiar with that saw, because a friend of mine still uses it daily. 

I have two cordless 18v saws.  A Milwaukee V18 from the early 2000s, and a M18 fuel (6-1/2" Blade Left) that I bought a year or 2 ago.  Both of those blow the HKC away in terms of power, torque, cutting ability and battery life.

When I first got the HKC, I mainly used it for siding and exterior trim.  The most challenging cut it had for the first month was cedar 1x8.  Even then, the cut quality was sub par for trim, and the FSK set at 90 deg was more like 89 Deg.  I just marked a line and held the rail to the line to make my cuts.  I did post a question on the  forum if there was a way to fine tune the rail stops to the markings, but nobody answered that query.  I am still assuming there is no way to adjust for square on the FSK rail. 

I also went looking for a dial to adjust blade rpm the first time I used this saw.  My first cuts had fuzzies on the cut line, and I thought, well I'll just turn the blade speed up.  (like the TS55).  Well there's no dial, and there is no way to prevent the fuzzies on cedar with this saw.  Even by switching to the higher tooth count blade. 

Then, I went to frame a deck.  Deck was framed with PT 2x8 and decked with Redwood 2x6.  That's when I discovered this is in no way a framing saw.  It struggled to do a single crosscut on the PT 2x8.  Even the RW 2x6 left fuzzies on the cutline, and the batteries died quickly. 

I have been wondering if I got a bum saw, or bum batteries.  I don't personally know anyone else that has this saw, so I don't have any basis for comparison.  The batteries seem to last forever in the Sysrock though, so I think they work as designed.  But the saw?  To call it a framing saw is extremely misleading.  I tried to do a 2 ft rip in a 2x4, not a chance.  It burns up 2 or 3 batteries in a day of crosscutting framing lumber, and cut quality is lower than that of the Milwaukee cordless saws.  Then there is the rail accuracy.  It is not accurate. 

I wanted to like this saw, but it is by no means suitable for framing.  I see all these videos on FB, Instagram and Youtube where people love it for cutting stringers.  Mine wouldn't get one stringer out of a battery.  At best, it would be ok for siding.  At this point, I wish I had either gone for the TS55 cordless, or even spent the extra for Mafell. 

I don't like to be a negative nancy, but I did want to make Festool aware of my dissatisfaction with this product.  Maybe I'm the only one that isn't impressed with this saw.  If so, then so be it. 

 

[tjbnwi]

[member=101]Festool USA[/member]

I don't have the HKC, I have the HK.

I'm only posting to let everyone know [member=3299]Lettusbee[/member] is on the up and up. I know him from another forum, he's always been helpful there. He's not here to just disparage the product.

Hopefully someone who has the HKC can help him figure out if he has a defective saw.

For the record, both of my HK rails are dead square.

Tom

 

[Cheese]

I’d suggest you send it back to Festool and ask them to conduct an evaluation on its ability to meet the current production specifications. I’m sure they have some QA boiler plate as to what the minimum requirements are and where this particular saw stands within that framework. Is it a problem with the saw, a problem with the battery or both?

I’m very happy with mine and I did notice that my HKC with one battery seemed to have more power than my TSC with one battery. Which I accepted as normal because of the different blade kerf widths.

I’ve cut some 2x materials with the saw and it cuts as well as my Milwaukee cordless, while having a 3-4 longer run time. I’ll be selling the Milwaukee.

If you’re saying the old Dewalt 18v saw was more powerful, then I’d seriously suggest you send the HKC in for a checkup because that saw was horrible and had an incredibly short run time.

 

[Big G]

Our local tool rep insisted we try out the HKC55, I am still from the old school where you drill with hilti and saw with mafell, but I think he is under pressure to sell more Festool so we obliged.
First impressions were good although it felt unbalanced with the attached rail compared to the KSS 300 which is like having a hand saw in your hand. Battery life is poor but I have yet to be convinced that batteries are the future, I would prefer to carry a generator than spend my nights charging batteries for the next day. The one thing I did notice and would be the sole reason for not buying one was the amount of flex on the base plate caused by the fact there is only one bevel clamp holding the base, this I assume causes the blade to twist as it spins which in turn drains the battery and gives a bad cut. If you have one then try it, I am sure with enough pressure you could break the base