TSO rail square not square

[Joebuck]

I had the same problem when I first used my TSO GRS-16. The cuts were out of square by 1/16” over a 36” cut. It turned out to be the 1400 rail I had was tweaked. After getting a new 1900 rail, the problem disappeared.

 

[LumberSmith]

I had the same problem when I first used my TSO GRS-16. The cuts were out of square by 1/16” over a 36” cut. It turned out to be the 1400 rail I had was tweaked. After getting a new 1900 rail, the problem disappeared.

If the rails aren't straight I'll be pretty pissed. Festool shouldn't be charging what they do if they can't guarantee their products aren't dead on. My MFT 3 table comes to mind as the miter gauge isn't accurate, the rail clamps on the side have slop, and the table wobbles (not a big deal but for the price I think it should come with the cross supports or have a better design). I also think I shouldn't have to worry about my ts55 not cutting a true 90 degrees. Why would it not a positive stop there so people don't have to calibrate the bevel angle?

Sorry to get off topic there.

 

[afish]

Even 100k dollar CNC machines need tuning/adjusting.  I agree the rail should be straight.  I had the best results getting very square crosscuts using a piece of 80/20 for a fence and a homemade rail hinge similar to the festool on a 4x8 mft style bench.  I used a pair of 80/20 angles with parf anchor dogs so the fence could pop on and off in seconds since it was also my table saw outfeed table. I used the tso MTR to get the rail/fence square and then dialed it in using the 5 cut method.  placing shimstock between the fence and angles to adjust for square.  It was super accurate system once done.  Sorry tried to look for some pics but I dont have any and I actually just spent part of the day yesterday breaking down the mft bench and cutting it down to make room for some new equipment coming.  I could send photos of the loose components if needed. 

 

[ChuckS]

Sorry to get off topic there.

I wonder what other kind of hobby would bring more griefs or frustrations than woodworking! Frustrations from skill issues, yes, but often from tool issues too which are out of a woodworker's control.

If one thinks paying a decent price for a tool properly made should be the solution, one is proven wrong and wrong again. Just ask the Kapex owners whose motors burned or turntable bed not being flat, or a DF user whose calibration efforts turned out to be as frustrating as using a misaligned joiner itself.

 

[LumberSmith]

Sorry to get off topic there.

I wonder what other kind of hobby would bring more griefs or frustrations than woodworking! Frustrations from skill issues, yes, but often from tool issues too which are out of a woodworker's control.

If one thinks paying a decent price for a tool properly made should be the solution, one is proven wrong and wrong again. Just ask the Kapex owners whose motors burned or turntable bed not being flat, or a DF user whose calibration efforts turned out to be as frustrating as using a misaligned joiner itself.

Haha this is true. I enjoy the problem solving of wood working but sometimes it would be nice if you could simply grab your expensive tools and know that they'll work as advertised. German engineering is amazing but I have the impression their products might be overly complex. If anybody has ever owned a German car I'm sure you can relate. It's awesome to drive until it's in the shop every other month for a faulty sensor. Then it becomes a giant money pit.

 

[Svar]

If the angle is consistently off, just glue a shim to the square where it presses against the back of the rail.

 

[LumberSmith]

Update from TSO customer service. They are going to email the user guide and a video...

 

[Michael Kellough]

Get a truly reliable square.

Also try the TSO square set farther up the guide rail. The ends of the guide rail are most susceptible to damage and the square depends on butting against good straight undamaged rail.

 

[sancho57]

[member=74394]LumberSmith[/member]

I had the same problem until I realized that the rail/GRS will move unless you clamp it

so for a 4x8 sheet of ply

1) cut factory edge (no need to clamp rail)

2) cut one of the 4'/48" ply edges using the GRS and clamp rail

3) verify that rail hasnt moved during clamping cuz it might.

4) Register GRS on 8' edge which you cut factory edge off and set PG to desired width and clamp rail.

5) VERIFY THAT RAIL DIDNT MOVE DURING CLAMPING

6) cross cut to rough length make sure you can use one of the edges (48") that you previously cut and check for square.

Make sure your tape is not damaged bent or otherwise inaccurate.

Thats what I recently learned and it has been working fine for me since.

If you are joining two rails together to make the 8' cut make sure those rails are accurately joined together.

they maybe the issue.

[member=42009]gunnyr[/member]

Outstanding post .

 

[afish]

When I first got my track saw I took a rip of wood approx 1.25" x 24-26" and attached it to the tongue of a framing square and ran it wild at first past the body.  Attach with 2 bolts 1/4-20ish oversize the hole at the end of the tongue since its almost impossible to find a perfectly square framing square for reasonable amount of money.  Adjust the wood strip using the method or similar method until its on the money and then place it on the sheet to be cut, the difference in the 1.25 wood strip (down and butted to the plywood) and the 1.5" tonge width provides a shelf for it to rest so it stays on the panel. If you are right handed the tongue should be to the left the body of the square should be pointing away from you and the wild end of the 1.25" guide should be sticking out to the right.  Now place the track up against the body of the square witch should be 90 to the reference edge and make a test cut.  You should be cutting off the wild end of the guide block that is attached to the square.  This makes it real simple for each subsequent cut because now you just line the end of the guide stip to your pencil mark at the edge and you know your track will be in the right spot.  It works good but is a little more fiddly do to the anti slip stips and the rail doesnt really like to move once its est down. If your on a budget its great. I made mine for zero cost as I already had everything lying around.  Once you verify its cutting perfectly square you can run another screw in just to make sure it doesnt move if you like.  One other thing the aluminum framing squares work better for this.  You could also substitute a piece of aluminum angle/bar for the wood guide but just make sure you have a blade that is suitable for cutting aluminum that has the same kerf as your wood blade and go slow and use a little wd40 on the cut. angle can catch funny sometimes when cutting. 

 

[afish]

Since I know its hard to picture sometimes I drew this up real quick and also had an idea.  If you attached a piece of non slip rubber to the bottom of the square it would help a ton.  The biggest issue I had was the blade of the square was thin enough to cause issues trying to make sure the track was tight against it but not overhanging at all and the non skid rubber on the track would tend to move the square having a non skid on the square and also spacing it up a small amount would fix both those issues. 

 

[LumberSmith]

I just took it to Woodcraft and after having 3 employees look at it on 3 Festool rails, we all concluded it’s the rail square. They were off by the same amount I was at home (1/16” over 34”). That’s now 5 rails it’s been tested on and same results so I feel confident it’s not a Festool rail issue. Pretty disappointed but it is what it is.

Thanks for everyone’s input and opinions.

 

[afish]

return it and get the MTR.  Its more useful in my opinion.

 

[LumberSmith]

I just got off the phone with Hans and he is going to send me some trouble shooting pictures and information as well as ship me a new square on Monday. Obviously I’m happy with that kind of customer service and thought I’d share that with everyone.

 

[ram]

I'm also one of the people that has NEVER managed to get a square cut with the grs-16. They weren't even very long cuts.
I have several machinist squares to check from and several festool rails to test with, none of the rails gave me a square cut.

- Clamping the rail or not, didn't make a difference.
- I cut the factory edge of the panel to get a clean edge
- Made sure the square was firmly pressed against the panel.

It was really frustrating seeing all those Youtubers getting "perfectly square" cuts without any effort and without even clamping the rail.
For the price I've payed, I'm very disappointed in the product. It's an expensive paperweight now.

Somewhat "glad" to see I'm not the only one with issues.
Please report back with an update if you managed (or not)  to solve your problem.

 

[Roachmill]

If you've never managed to get a square cut then something is not right. I have two squares and used them for a lot of work that has both been checked carefully for square and where it would be easily visible to the eye were it not; with accurate results every time.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

At one time I had both the TSO squares (until the adapter cam out). The second one was not square. I looked at it with a magnifier and there was some hard debris on the edge that mates with the wood. Used my fingernail to remove it. Working with TSO they guessed it may have been from the anodizing process.

 

[Michael Kellough]

If you have a TSO square that you’re sure is not right, contact TSO and work something out. Or, get some shim stock and make it work. It a simple thing.

 

[TSO_Products]

I'm also one of the people that has NEVER managed to get a square cut with the grs-16. They weren't even very long cuts.

[member=67840]ram[/member] - please drop us a note with your customer name and email  to attention;  Hans
info@tsoproducts.com so we can take care of you.
We don't leave anyone stranded if we can help it!

Hans

 

[PaulMarcel]

My "not square" experience with the rail square was different. When I got it, I popped it on my FS-800 rail, put it on a piece of long scrap then made a scoring cut with the TS-75. Checked it with my square. It was off. hmm...

The design of the rail should have the back edge parallel to the rib. The rail square is CNCed and unlikely off. I checked my square. My square was off. It's "user serviceable" so I corrected the square, checked the rail square: dead on.