TSV 60 K delivered today

[Fourmi]

I pre-ordered the new TSV 60 K a while back, I didn't expect it so soon.

It's my busy period, so I won't have time to have a decent look for a couple of weeks at least, but first impressions - it's long!.. it seems fairly light, slightly nose heavy as would be expected with the extras at the front.

It comes in a tall systainer (Sys 5 ?) and the saw drops down into the box at quite an angle. As per usual shipping standards, the saw was no longer seated in the insert, the lid was half twisted open from the force, but all seems well.

First cut, was leaving a lot of chipping to the left of the blade - then I noticed that the offset can be dialled in - there seems to be a lot of adjustment, so hopefully this will play nice with other (thicker) blades. I managed to get clean cuts after two minutes of playing before it went back in the box.

The pre-score blade can be turned on or off, so this can be used as a 'normal' plunge saw too.

What will really interest me to try is how good the results will be using the Mafell edge bander - is the cut good enough for a 'zero edge' join.

 

[Coen]

That's why it also comes with the FS 1900/2 and not the 1400/s.

The systainer is a Sys3 M 437, which is a nasty 20mm higher than the Systainer T-Loc 5, making it not stack nice with it's predecessors.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

That's why it also comes with the FS 1900/2 and not the 1400/s.

The systainer is a Sys3 M 437, which is a nasty 20mm higher than the Systainer T-Loc 5, making it not stack nice with it's predecessors.

Coen is like a dog with a bone, will not let it go! Bravo! I agree totally. Messing with the sizes was a very poor decision.....and those always seem to get follow-through  [unsure]

 

[Coen]

That's why it also comes with the FS 1900/2 and not the 1400/s.

The systainer is a Sys3 M 437, which is a nasty 20mm higher than the Systainer T-Loc 5, making it not stack nice with it's predecessors.

Coen is like a dog with a bone, will not let it go! Bravo! I agree totally. Messing with the sizes was a very poor decision.....and those always seem to get follow-through  [unsure]

Festool was the one promoting [integer x constant]-sized boxes that contributed to me buying the brand in the first place. I use Systainers in equal-height stacks to position stuff at a height all the time. I now have two Sys3 M's with odd-ball sizes (a 337 and 437) that I can't use in any stack whatsoever. That's a annoying loss of function.

Not to mention I store most of them on shelves, side facing out. They did away with the side label and card slot on the Sys3... you can figure out how annoying it would be to have multiple Sys3 of the same size and color without a label showing.

Now on the TSV 60 K; there is another beef; no riving knife. The sensor might prevent kickback, it however in no way prevents the cut from closing on the back of the blade, ruining the cut quality (and splinter strip). Not that that matters when you cut melamine covered particle board, but it does when cutting real wood.

 

[Fourmi]

Of course you are right about the Systainer size being frustrating, my custom built van racking has been based around the previous size... but the bigger picture is a bit more frustrating. We all know that the new Systainers integrate with the expensive Bott van racking - well a little bit of political pressure here and there (lobbying) - and a new law that has passed almost unnoticed in Europe (applied since April 1st in France) - fixed items (i.e. van racking) that increase the weight of the vehicle by more than 3% (so 60kg / 130lbs) means the van has to have it's weight changed on the registration document - this entails a single vehicle test - moderately expensive, very time consuming - failure to do so means the insurance 'may' be invalid (insurance speak means we will wriggle out of any claim however unrelated) - neither  can the vehicle pass the annual vehicle roadworthiness inspection.. Amongst other reasons behind this is that the secure crash-tested metal partition between the cab and load area has not been designed to resist the weight of 'unknown' structures that may have been installed - however piling any amount of boxes, rubbish, you-name-it on the floor does actually conform to the nanny state rules. An extra 20mm on the Systainer so it doesn't fit in the rack?.. OK I'll put in on the floor - at least the TSV 60 K will now 'conform' /s

 

[peacefulandpatriotically]

That's why it also comes with the FS 1900/2 and not the 1400/s.

The systainer is a Sys3 M 437, which is a nasty 20mm higher than the Systainer T-Loc 5, making it not stack nice with it's predecessors.

Coen is like a dog with a bone, will not let it go! Bravo! I agree totally. Messing with the sizes was a very poor decision.....and those always seem to get follow-through  [unsure]

Festool was the one promoting [integer x constant]-sized boxes that contributed to me buying the brand in the first place. I use Systainers in equal-height stacks to position stuff at a height all the time. I now have two Sys3 M's with odd-ball sizes (a 337 and 437) that I can't use in any stack whatsoever. That's a annoying loss of function.

Not to mention I store most of them on shelves, side facing out. They did away with the side label and card slot on the Sys3... you can figure out how annoying it would be to have multiple Sys3 of the same size and color without a label showing.

Now on the TSV 60 K; there is another beef; no riving knife. The sensor might prevent kickback, it however in no way prevents the cut from closing on the back of the blade, ruining the cut quality (and splinter strip). Not that that matters when you cut melamine covered particle board, but it does when cutting real wood.

very well illustrated Coen with that explanation of the systainer changes, I don't blame you at all for being ticked-off by the new ones.  Also, I must have missed the specs on the t60 NOT having a riving knife in place of a sensor alternative. Again, you are correct in that this is a loss for folks who use it to cut solid wood.

 

[Fourmi]

Had a better look at the adjustments on the TSV 60 K and a quick flick through the manual.

The pre-score blade can be turned on or off, but the main blade can be blocked to not plunge too, so just a pre-score cut can be done.

The manual states the pre-score blade is tapered, so the width of cut can be varied by adjusting the height of cut; there is also left right adjustment so accommodating different thickness blades should be easy. It will take a bit of setting up, but should be possible to get a good clean cut with little offset.

The manual states to respect the speed of about 1metre ( about 3' 3") a minute which seems fairly slow. It also advises not to use joined rails for maximum precision.

 

[Coen]

1 m / minute is insanely slow. Festool itself in videos goes much faster

 

[jimbo51]

"Not to mention I store most of them on shelves, side facing out. They did away with the side label and card slot on the Sys3... you can figure out how annoying it would be to have multiple Sys3 of the same size and color without a label showing."

I made Sys carts based on large steel shelving units. One of them places the Systainers sideways. I dislike the new Systainers and have only bought a couple of them

Was doing away with the side label slot just a subtle attempt to make people go with the preferred rack system? It makes no sense for hobby users as few set up work vans.

 

[Coen]

"Not to mention I store most of them on shelves, side facing out. They did away with the side label and card slot on the Sys3... you can figure out how annoying it would be to have multiple Sys3 of the same size and color without a label showing."

I made Sys carts based on large steel shelving units. One of them places the Systainers sideways. I dislike the new Systainers and have only bought a couple of them

Was doing away with the side label slot just a subtle attempt to make people go with the preferred rack system? It makes no sense for hobby users as few set up work vans.

They don't even sell the rails separately in Europe. So....

 

[Cheese]

Not to mention I store most of them on shelves, side facing out. They did away with the side label and card slot on the Sys3... you can figure out how annoying it would be to have multiple Sys3 of the same size and color without a label showing.

The removal of the side card slot on the SYS 3 is more than just irritating, what were they thinking? This is what I was forced to do to get around their foolishness. Typical printed PVC cards for the front while I also need to make different sized printed self adhesive paper labels for the sides...double the effort but how else will you identify them in a stack of Systainers?

[attachimg=1]

 

[Coen]

Not to mention I store most of them on shelves, side facing out. They did away with the side label and card slot on the Sys3... you can figure out how annoying it would be to have multiple Sys3 of the same size and color without a label showing.

The removal of the side card slot on the SYS 3 is more than just irritating, what were they thinking? This is what I was forced to do to get around their foolishness. Typical printed PVC cards for the front while I also need to make different sized printed self adhesive paper labels for the sides...double the effort but how else will you identify them in a stack of Systainers?

[attachimg=1]

Presumably by using a permanent marker. I see a bunch of those on the used market. But it corresponds to lower transaction prices.

I also see a wide availability of the Systainers with the boxes but with like the wrong boxes for the inlay, etc. They were changed at some point, and lots of people don't notice and order the wrong ones.  [unsure]