Turning chisel sharpening advice

[rocky100370]

Im looking for a sharpening system for my turning chisels. Was leaning on Tormek system. Anybody have recommendations?

Thanks in advance

 

[box185]

Here are a couple of options.
https://woodturnerswonders.com/
https://oneway.ca/products-category/sharpening-grinding-jigs/Grinding Jig

 

[woodferret]

Tormek has an entire kit for turners.


But.... you could just do manual with the DMT Diamond wave.

 

[ChuckM]

If you have a grinder, you can use it with a cool grinding stone and some turning jigs:
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...eel-dressers/32981-6-×-1-cool-grinding-wheels
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...nd-rests/52372-wolverine-basic-sharpening-jig

The basic setup costs under $200 Cdn, and it's a much faster system than the Tormek. My system cost me just the cooling stone because I made the jigs myself. You can use the setup with a Veritas jig to sharpen chisels and blades, too :
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...nts-and-rests/32973-veritas-grinder-tool-rest

I don't do turning often enough to justify getting a full sharpening system just for gouges and scrapers.

 

[Birdhunter]

I may own the record for the number of sharpening systems I’ve tried. The two I have stuck with for years are a diamond wheel on a slow speed Baldor grinder and a set of water stones. I use both with jigs. The diamond wheel is what I prefer for turning tools and the water stones for chisels and planes.

I find the Tormek to be painfully slow. Worksharp leaves ugly marks. Others may get better results.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.

I find the Tormek to be painfully slow.

I gave up after trying to sharpen some plane blades with the T8.

 

[hdv]

After trying many, many systems I settled on a Robert Sorby ProEdge linisher for shaping and Shapton ceramic stones for sharpening.

My fine-mechanical coordination isn't good, so sadly no freehand sharpening for me. I am a long-time user of the Veritas Mk II honing guide (love it!) and last year bought the Woodpeckers sharpening system. I have to say that I am quite glad I did. It wasn't cheap, but it is a pleasure to use.

The Sorby is great for sharpening turning tools. However, I didn't really like the platform for guiding straight edged irons (plane irons and chisels). It just did not feel substantial enough to me. Therefore, I replaced it with a guide originally made for the Axminster Ultimate Edge linisher. This also allows me to use Tormek stuff on the Sorby.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Having spent the lion's share of my working years selling Tormek, I am going to come to its defense for a few sentences. Anyone who found the Tormek slow for sharpening bench chisels and plane irons didn't read the book, or, having read the book, didn't figure out how to control the cutting action of the grindstone. The composition of the SG-250 stone is not like any other grindstone out there. The abrasive grains in the surface can be fractured to yield a finer cutting action. This is both a blessing and a curse. If you don't know how to get the surface cutting quickly again, you assume the stone is too fine and give up. But while I was demonstrating I would nick a chisel (that's a little bit of an understatement) and remove the nick in a couple minutes and have the chisel cutting like a scalpel in a couple more. The secret is in using the Stone Grader. The coarse side brings back fast cutting and the smooth side polishes the stone for fine cutting. Many people mollycoddle the coarse side and never get the surface of the stone open for fast cutting again. You have to bear down on it and really abrade the surface of the stone. I usually tipped it up on the corner, which would work a little faster, then roll it back down to the face. 

Now, for turning tools I feel Tormek has the easiest to use and most versatile jigs out there. And with the introduction a couple years ago of the diamond stones, they completed the picture. The SG-250 did a wonderful job, but gouges and scrapers tended to wear the stone unevenly. The diamond wheels are always flat and always free-cutting. Personally, I still prefer the SG-250 for bench tools, but love the diamond stones for turning tools and planer blades.

Anyone curious about what I looked like at the turn of the century, here's a link to a video series I did before YouTube existed and you could only put about 5 minutes of video online at a time or people couldn't watch it. It's also sadly pre-HD...but you'll get the picture. Dark hair and 75 pounds ago...


The ProEdge hdv discussed is my second choice. Luckily, I don't have to choose, I have both.

 

[rocky100370]

Thank you all for your responses.

 

[derekcohen]

I am sorry Jeff, but I do not accept that the Tormek is an appropriate grinder for lathe chisels. The tool rest is superb, but the grinder wheel is cr[member=58670]P[/member].

I had the same Tormek as in your video for about 10 years, so I am familiar with one. Dressing the wheel at best gets you 220 grit. You took over 1 minute to grind a new bevel. I can do the same on an 8" half-speed grinder with a 180 grit CBN wheel in around 20 seconds, and even faster with an 80 grit wheel. Both will run cool and leave decent edge to refine with waterstones.

In your video you ground a bevel on a simple bench chisel, not a lathe chisel. Further, the steel of that chisel is O1, which is easily abraded. Try that with a M2 or M4 steel blade, which is more typical of lathe chisels. I would anticipate that you more than triple the grinding time.

As mentioned, I like the tool rest a great deal, and have two BGM-100 versions on my bench grinder. These work with all lathe chisel accessories.

CBN wheels - no water needed. No wear = no need to re-adjust the angle jig for wheel wear .. as you need to on the Tormek.

Half speed bench grinder - 1400 rpm;  Tormek - 90 rpm

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[jeffinsgf]

Derek, I believe you missed the part about that video being over 20 years old, and I reposted it to address the issue of speed for bench tools. Tormek has a new diamond wheel that I mentioned with regard to turning tools, but even with the SG-250 stone my experience with turning tools is that the only time it takes longer to sharpen a turning tool with a Tormek is the first time. If you jig up and repeat the identical grind, the Tormek is just as fast and delivers an edge that lasts longer.

I did a 5-day workshop at Craft Supplies several years ago where a couple Tormek owners and I were sharpening our tools with a Tormek and the rest of the class was sharpening with CBN wheels on bench grinders. We went back to the Tormek far less often than the other students went back to the grinder and we spent less time there when we did.

And that was before the advent of the diamond wheel.

 

[Alanbach]

I don’t turn enough to justify CBN wheels for my 8” slow speed grinder but for me the only reasonable choice is the Wolverine jig system with an 8” slow speed grinder with whatever upgraded grinder wheels you choose. It’s a great system, reasonably priced and very easy to set up and use.

 

[RussellS]

Im looking for a sharpening system for my turning chisels. Was leaning on Tormek system. Anybody have recommendations?

Probably 99.9% of the turning world sharpens their turning tools one of two ways.  1.  Freehand where the turner takes the tool to the grinder and uses a rest of some sort and sharpens the tool.  Pros favor this method because they have sharpened for years and know what movements to make.  Its fast when you don't have to monkey with jigs and such.  2.  Oneway Wolverine style jig.  Other companies like Sorby and one or two others you can find on the internet make about the same jig.  Oneway's patents must have expired.  Non pros use this because it guides the tools better and allows a consistent grind.  For those who do not have years of experience and muscle memory for sharpening.

As for what tools to use, most, many favor a slow speed grinder.  1800 rpm.  With either CBN or white aluminum oxide wheels.  80 or 180 or 220 grit.  But many people have also used 3600 rpm high speed grinders and the old gray wheels that come on most grinders.  Turning tools are high speed steel.  So they can handle high heat much better than hand chisels or plane blades.  Just grind lightly and have some water nearby to cool the turning tool when it gets hot.

With turning tools, you DO NOT need razor sharp cutting edges.  Like with hand chisels and plane blades.  You are pushing with your own muscles the chisels and planes.  But a lathe is spinning 1000-3000 rpm.  The lathe supplies the power.  A round ball can cut wood if its shoved in hard enough.  So no need for super sharp cutting edges.  Just good enough.  Which dry grinders and wheels can easily provide.  When sharpening turning tools, you want it fast, and good enough.

 

[ChuckM]

In terms of fastness, my cool grinding stone on the benchtop grinder (used with a shop-made Wolverine-lookalike  jig) takes about 5 to 7 seconds to restore a worn roughing gouge to working condition.

 

[derekcohen]

Derek, I believe you missed the part about that video being over 20 years old, and I reposted it to address the issue of speed for bench tools. Tormek has a new diamond wheel that I mentioned with regard to turning tools, but even with the SG-250 stone my experience with turning tools is that the only time it takes longer to sharpen a turning tool with a Tormek is the first time. If you jig up and repeat the identical grind, the Tormek is just as fast and delivers an edge that lasts longer.

I did a 5-day workshop at Craft Supplies several years ago where a couple Tormek owners and I were sharpening our tools with a Tormek and the rest of the class was sharpening with CBN wheels on bench grinders. We went back to the Tormek far less often than the other students went back to the grinder and we spent less time there when we did.

And that was before the advent of the diamond wheel.

Hi Jeff

I did not miss that it was a 20-year old video. In my experience - using the Tormek and a range of bench grinders with all sorts of wheels - the Tormek has a weakness that it cannot overcome: it was defined for a different era of sharpening, when the only alternative available was a high speed grinder with a grey wheel (designed for metal). Woodworkers struggled with these and burned blades in a few seconds. The Tormek came along with slow, wet grinding. This was a revolution.

But now it is hampered by the slow speed. Modern grinding has slowed the bench grinder by half and added CBN wheels. These run cool, and the sharpening is in a fraction of the time of a Tormek. The main advantage of the Tormek now - its tool rest - can be used on a bench grinder.

The Tormek is not improved enough by a large CBN or Diamond wheel. The speed remains the same and so cutting is still as slow as a carthorse. Now this may very well aid a beginner, but the system is not for someone who is intermediate or advanced.

I do vaguely recall that we used to debate whether the Tormek is a sharpening system, as Tormek refers to it, or a grinder, as I believe. For a serious flat woodworker, chisels and planes blades need waterstones, not a strop. The basic, regraded Tormek wheel gets to 1000 grit. That is where I start sharpening with waterstones. I finish at 13000. Now the Tormek strop with paste can get to 20000, but one is buffing a 1000 serrated edge, and you will be left with fine serrations when finish planing.

Turning chisels are made of M2 and M4 steel, which is another kettle of fish. High speed grinder and 180 to rough shape, 300 and 600 grit CBN wheel to finish. This steel can manage the heat, and there is no need for a slow speed grinder.

I loved my Tormek when I first got it. But it is now dated. Tormek adding CBN and Diamond wheels in an attempt to keep up unfortunately is too late.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[grbmds]

Tormek is a great sharpening system; very expensive but great. The old wheels were difficult and it was one of the reasons I didn't use it much for anything in woodworking after buying it. However, when I began turning and using HSS gouges for bowl turning, I decided to invest in a Tormek gouge jig and a diamond wheel. I get amazing results with just one pass around the gouge (sometimes 2 if I don't sharpen when I should). That takes less than 30 seconds when my Tormek is set up for gouges (which it is while I'm turning). Even if it isn't set up it takes a minute to get it back to the correct position for my gouges. For scrapers, it's also easy.

However, it's slow. For resharpening it's the best. For reshaping a gouge or scraper or any tool, it isn't practical. It can be done, but it takes forever and requires an incredible amount of patience, even with a 300 grit diamond wheel.

So the ideal is to have a slow speed dry grinder with coarser grit CBN wheels, like 80 and 180 or 220 grit, and the Tormek for the everyday resharpening that you need to do between and during turnings.

Given the cost of CBN and diamond wheels, and the Tormek and other grinders these days, it probably isn't practical for many turners to have both. So, probably the best choice is a slow speed grinder (1750 rpm) with at least 1 CBN wheel, maybe 2 of 120 and 220 grit. Based on what the general thought is in woodturning that should work for turning. However, the problem is that it may not work for you as a sharpening system for other woodworking cutting tools, like bench chisels and plane blades.

It's a dilemma which I fortunately resolved recently by getting a slow speed dry grinder with CBN wheels and adding a Tormek universal support for the bench grinder and will have to have a second tool rest for the other wheel. However, this allows me to have the same angle setup on both the Tormek and slow speed grinder plus use it for other tools. The only reason I can justify doing that though was because I already owned a Tormek. Otherwise I would just have bought the slow speed grinder and appropriate wheels and tool rests. I generally do all my finish sharpening for bench chisels and planes with a set of stones.

It's a huge drain on anyone's budget, but the problem is that, unless you truly have the equipment to get a sharp tool, it is frustrating to use any tool.