UJK Parf Guide System - Videos

[Stone Message]

[member=11196]Peter Parfitt[/member]
Hi Peter, I received one of the first production runs of the UJK Parf Guide Systems and in the instruction manual there is no mention of using light oil to lubricate the 20mm TCT drill bit. The instruction manual must have been updated for later runs. So if anyone else has an early set they also might find this important information missing.

I have mentioned oil in almost every video about the PGS. However, I will contact Axminster now and make sure that they check that there is no discrepancy between the written instructions and those provided on their web site.

Many thanks for the information about your copy of the instruction manual.

Peter

 

[VirtuaLogic]

I can confirm there is no mention of oil in the instruction manual I received. Must be the older version as well. It is dated 31/03/2016 with REF: 102224.

Also, on page 7 a section of text about Making a Track Saw Cutting Station is printed twice. ("In figure 14 a pattern ... Veritas Parf Dogs will be used").

Nevertheless, the last few days I have used the worktop I made after cleaning up the bit and bushing extensively, and it is perfect. I have not found any slop whatsoever. I was able to make nice square cuts, even used the top a bit creatively as a square by putting the Parf Dogs with the long end through the holes, butting that up to the workpiece, and laying the track against the squared edge of the top. (I had to square up a piece that was larger than the worktop).

I am very happy with the product Peter, thanks!

 

[Stone Message]

I can confirm there is no mention of oil in the instruction manual I received. Must be the older version as well. It is dated 31/03/2016 with REF: 102224.

Also, on page 7 a section of text about Making a Track Saw Cutting Station is printed twice. ("In figure 14 a pattern ... Veritas Parf Dogs will be used").

Nevertheless, the last few days I have used the worktop I made after cleaning up the bit and bushing extensively, and it is perfect. I have not found any slop whatsoever. I was able to make nice square cuts, even used the top a bit creatively as a square by putting the Parf Dogs with the long end through the holes, butting that up to the workpiece, and laying the track against the squared edge of the top. (I had to square up a piece that was larger than the worktop).

I am very happy with the product Peter, thanks!

Many thanks for the information. I have already emailed Axminster but I will follow this up with the information that you have given.

I am so glad that you like the PGS, it makes me feel really proud. I just wish Dad could have seen all of this.

Cheers.

Peter

 

[Womble]

Ooh first post on this forum

Having ordered & received the Parf Guide System last week in between the Xmas & New Year i can also confirm the current Manual being shipped by Axminster is the one dated 31/03/2016 with REF: 102224 & does not contain the oiling information. However having watched Peters very informative YouTube videos i was aware of this..

I would like to point out also that contrary to 1 or 2 posts in this thread Axminster are still shipping the original 20mm drill bit with the Parf Guide System & not the revised Hex shank version Code: 102481 with depth stop bushing which is rather disappointing.

Be aware there is 2 versions of the 20mm drill bit on the Axminster website: Code: 102481 new Hex Shank Version & the old original Code: 101841.

Not sure if its possible to order the depth stop bushing as a separate part to use on the original 20mm bits?  but that would definitely be advantageous & if anyone knows the part number it would be appreciated.

 

[Stone Message]

Ooh first post on this forum

Having ordered & received the Parf Guide System last week in between the Xmas & New Year i can also confirm the current Manual being shipped by Axminster is the one dated 31/03/2016 with REF: 102224 & does not contain the oiling information. However having watched Peters very informative YouTube videos i was aware of this..

I would like to point out also that contrary to 1 or 2 posts in this thread Axminster are still shipping the original 20mm drill bit with the Park Guide System & not the revised Hex shank version Code: 102481 with depth stop bushing which is rather disappointing.

Be aware there is 2 versions of the 20mm drill bit on the Axminster website: Code: 102481 new Hex Shank Version & the old original Code: 101841.

Not sure if its possible to order the depth stop bushing as a separate part to use on the original 20mm bits?  but that would definitely be advantageous & if anyone knows the part number it would be appreciated.

Hi Womble

Many thanks for that update. [member=63423]AxminsterTools[/member] perhaps you can look into this and answer the points.

I am releasing a News and Tips video soon for the PGS and I will cover the straight/hex shank cutter in detail.

Peter

 

[AxminsterTools]

Ooh first post on this forum

Having ordered & received the Parf Guide System last week in between the Xmas & New Year i can also confirm the current Manual being shipped by Axminster is the one dated 31/03/2016 with REF: 102224 & does not contain the oiling information. However having watched Peters very informative YouTube videos i was aware of this..

I would like to point out also that contrary to 1 or 2 posts in this thread Axminster are still shipping the original 20mm drill bit with the Park Guide System & not the revised Hex shank version Code: 102481 with depth stop bushing which is rather disappointing.

Be aware there is 2 versions of the 20mm drill bit on the Axminster website: Code: 102481 new Hex Shank Version & the old original Code: 101841.

Not sure if its possible to order the depth stop bushing as a separate part to use on the original 20mm bits?  but that would definitely be advantageous & if anyone knows the part number it would be appreciated.

Hi Womble

Many thanks for that update. [member=63423]AxminsterTools[/member] perhaps you can look into this and answer the points.

I am releasing a News and Tips video soon for the PGS and I will cover the straight/hex shank cutter in detail.

Peter

Good Afternoon,

Just to cover of your points. We are working now to update all of our current stock with the most up to date version of the manual, apologies you hadn't received the most recent version. The current version is on our website to download here.

In relation to the recently added Centrotec compatible hex shank cutter, we are continually looking for ways to improve our products and this was identified as a great improvement. It is currently an optional accessory and not supplied with the basic PGS.

Finally, we are currently investigating stocking the depth stop collar on it's own however at this point there is no timescale to this. We hope to have it available on it's own in the very near future.

Many thanks

Axminster Tools & Machinery

 

[VirtuaLogic]

Just a quick reply about the follow up by Axminster: they sent me a new replacement guide block with bushings at no cost. Very good customer service, I have not experienced this level of service from a company often.

Together with the PGS I ordered a set of guide rail clamps; these are a fraction of the costs of the Festool or Bessey branded clamps and as far as I can judge these white label clamps are top notch! Will definitely order from Axminster again in the future.

 

[HarveyWildes]

Just ordered mine today, with the new bit and a set of short and tall parf dogs.  For the whole order, shipping was slightly less than VAT, so I got better than the VAT included prices.  The exchange rate was .81 pounds to the dollar (corrected).  BTW, even with shipping, the parf dogs were significantly less expensive than ordering from Lee Valley.

I would never have placed this order without reading this thread.  The combination of Peter's videos and the discussions of Axminster's ordering service and prices, the advantages of the new bit, and the role that the parf dogs play in the whole process made a cumulative impression that made me comfortable making the order.

Now I just have to wait for all of the pieces parts to make it across the pond.

 

[Stone Message]

Just ordered mine today, with the new bit and a set of short and tall parf dogs.  For the whole order, shipping was slightly less than VAT, so I got better than the VAT included prices.  The exchange rate was .81 $ to the pound.  BTW, even with shipping, the parf dogs were significantly less expensive than ordering from Lee Valley.

I would never have placed this order without reading this thread.  The combination of Peter's videos and the discussions of Axminster's ordering service and prices, the advantages of the new bit, and the role that the parf dogs play in the whole process made a cumulative impression that made me comfortable making the order.

Now I just have to wait for all of the pieces parts to make it across the pond.

HI [member=61231]HarveyWildes[/member]

It sounds like you are very well organised. Perhaps when you have got the kit you could share some pictures of the top(s) that you make and any other ideas that come to mind (like Parf Hats, the longer wooden blocks with 20 mm holes for right angle clamping and so on).

Hopefully the kit will arrive with about 7 days.

Peter

 

[Dan Clark]

Peter,

The PGS looks like it may be a good option to create a mini-bench top with a moxon vise and more holes - specifically 20mm holes.  E.g. something like this:http://www.finewoodworking.com/readerproject/2014/08/31/moxon-vise-2 .  Maybe 25-30 cm wide by a 70-80 cm long. 

Would the PGS be useful for making a top this small?

Thanks,

Dan.

 

[jasen]

Hi Guys

About to order the PGS system.
What are the advantages of the Centrotec compatible hex shank cutter? Obviously a compatible Centrotec drill must be used.

Cheers

 

[DB10]

The main advantage seems to be this according to Axminster.

It prevents the shank becoming burred by a drill chuck. Any such burrs could cause a problem when inserting the shank into the guide bush.

Hence the conversation we have been having regarding the use of light oil on the shaft of original boring bit which Peter mentions in his videos and the online instructions but is missing from the printed manual.

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Guys

About to order the PGS system.
What are the advantages of the Centrotec compatible hex shank cutter? Obviously a compatible Centrotec drill must be used.

Cheers

Hi [member=956]jason[/member]

The actual cutting capability is identical. Both cutters still need to have a smear of oil on the shaft each time it goes into the 20 mm Guide Block at the start of a session.

There have been some cases where users have managed to get a burr on the shaft of the parallel sided 20 mm cutter from the interaction with the user's chuck. The Centrotec (and hex compatible) end will overcome any chuck related issues but this cutter still needs a smear of oil before use.

Having asked a few friends and judging some comments that come to me there are some who would prefer the straight shaft and some who would prefer the Centrotec one. These things are not cheap and it is my understanding that [member=63423]AxminsterTools[/member]  are continuing to sell the PGS with the original cutter as the Centrotec one (which comes with a stop collar) is more expensive. I am sure that they can review this at a later stage but for now the Centrotec cutter is an optional extra and not part of the standard PGS.

Regardless of the choice, these cutters in the 20 mm Guide Block make the perfect size hole for the Veritas Parf Dogs.

Peter

 

[clark_fork]

[attachurl=1][attachmini=1]

Peter,

The PGS looks like it may be a good option to create a mini-bench top with a moxon vise and more holes - specifically 20mm holes.  E.g. something like this:http://www.finewoodworking.com/readerproject/2014/08/31/moxon-vise-2 .  Maybe 25-30 cm wide by a 70-80 cm long. 

Would the PGS be useful for making a top this small?

Thanks,

Dan.

It does not matter what the overall size of the PGS top is since it can be laid out and then trimmed to final size. If the only alternative, because of construction. is that it cannot be trimmed to fit, an extension can be added for the rules. In the instant project, it is best to follow Maestro Peter’s frequent admonition to “always have a scheme.” Lay out, perhaps on paper, at 96mm intervals, the proposed overall size of your project and locate  the feet since your “scheme” decides not only where the 20mm holes are but where they Don’t need to be.

To decide on overall size, use this 3rd grade Pythagorean  memory jogger: 1-2-Three-Four-Five-6. This defines the basic three sides of the right angle triangle. By adding a 10mm radius to each end of 96mm centers, the width and depth of the project can be determined thusly:

3 x 96=288mm ( plus end radius)
4 x 96=384mm (plus end radius)
5 x96=480mm  (Diagonal)

So the very minimum width and depth is 288 +20=308mm or 12.57 inches by 384 +20=404mm or 16.49 inches (Allow for some inset.)

Here is a more detailed plan. Instead of the Ley-Valley crank option I have elected to purchase the Benchcrafted version of the Moxon vise. They also have a bench top plan

I include both the more detailed plan and the Moxon vise dimensions.
My version is using Dominos for the underbench support feet and the Benchcrafted Moxon vise:http://www.benchcrafted.com/MoxonVise.html

[attachurl=3]

 

[Dan Clark]

Clark,

Many thanks for the great feedback.  It looks like the PGS will meet my needs.  Obviously, I have more work to do to lay out the bench, determine exact height, and determine how to best use my 20mm-based clamps and other fittings. 

Again, thanks and best regards,

Dan.

P.s. My MFT 1080 is about about 9 years old now.  Still works great and is my most used tool, but the top is in rough shape.  Obviously using the PGS would make creating a new top both inexpensive and pretty straight forward.  On the other hand, it's not clear to me whether this is the best option.  I.e. It could be that making a custom MFT might be better.  But that's another project.

 

[Z48LT1]

Dan, I'm curious what you hope to gain from the PGS for your small Bench Top Bench.  The genius in the PGS is in its ability to allow you to lay out an array of 20mm holes in a near cnc accurate pattern, most typically for use with a track saw, but also for woodworking tasks that can take advantage of a larger array than your Bench Top Bench.

My imagination may be lacking but I can't envision a benefit from having the precise layout of holes provided by the PGS on such a small surface, let alone the complexity of setting up the Bench Top into a fixture/jig to allow the Parf Sticks to function per design. (Ideally, they can use a meter-square work surface to take advantage of their inherent designed accuracy).

Clearly, the PGS would be ideal for fabricating a new top for your 1080 or a new MFT, and several of its components might be very useful in drilling the dog holes for your Bench Top Bench.

As a matter if information, I recently received my PGS from Axminster here in Florida; the invoice cost was £99.96, $123.40US.  I bought several other items, among them a couple guide rail clamps that appear to be identical to Festool items that sell for $43 a pair that Axminster gets $8/ea for.  Wish I'd bought several.

The PGS came with the round shank 20mm drill bit, I bought a an extra, centrotec shanked bit and stop collar for $25.67 just because.  I ordered my PGS a week or so before Peter Parfitt announced the change to the centrotec bit being included in the PGS.

Best, Gary

Edit:  Oops.  My bad.  As noted below, My info about the 20mm drill bit included with the PGS was wrong.  Apologies.  Thanks, squarecut.

 

[squarecut]

The PGS came with the round shank 20mm drill bit, I bought a an extra, centrotec shanked bit and stop collar for $25.67 just because.  I ordered my PGS a week or so before Peter Parfitt announced the change to the centrotec bit being included in the PGS.

Best, Gary

[member=62778]Z48LT1[/member]

FYI - Correction
New Centrotec shaft 20mm PGS bit not included in current kits as Peter stated in reply #232 on this thread-

"Axminster are continuing to sell the PGS with the original cutter "

 

[Z48LT1]

On reflection, I may have overstated the benefit of the meter square work surface with respect to taking advantage of the inherent design accuracy of the PGS and its meter long Parf sticks.  I've not got the mathematical education to back that statement up but it felt right when I was composing my post.  I'm pretty sure using a 6-8-10 triangle has the potential of giving more precise results than a 3-4-5 triangle, but then I may have started making things up.

I doubt any harm has been done, and I apologize for being too quick with my slowing synapses.

Cheers, Gary

 

[clark_fork]

On reflection, I may have overstated the benefit of the meter square work surface with respect to taking advantage of the inherent design accuracy of the PGS and its meter long Parf sticks.  I've not got the mathematical education to back that statement up but it felt right when I was composing my post.  I'm pretty sure using a 6-8-10 triangle has the potential of giving more precise results than a 3-4-5 triangle, but then I may have started making things up.

I doubt any harm has been done, and I apologize for being too quick with my slowing synapses.

Cheers, Gary

6-8-10 is 3-4-5 doubled. I only wanted to point out the minimum size possible and to provide an easier to remember way to set the rules. 1-2-Three-Four-Five-6. All setting are multiples of the basic formula. The formula is accurate up to great pyramids of Egypt and beyond. The Egyptians used knots in a rope. Thank goodness for Maestro Peter's improvement with steel rules, a lot easier than a knotted rope.

Apparently some find a small MFT surface useful.

[attachimg=1]

 

[Dan Clark]

Dan, I'm curious what you hope to gain from the PGS for your small Bench Top Bench.  The genius in the PGS is in its ability to allow you to lay out an array of 20mm holes in a near cnc accurate pattern, most typically for use with a track saw, but also for woodworking tasks that can take advantage of a larger array than your Bench Top Bench.

My imagination may be lacking but I can't envision a benefit from having the precise layout of holes provided by the PGS on such a small surface, let alone the complexity of setting up the Bench Top into a fixture/jig to allow the Parf Sticks to function per design. (Ideally, they can use a meter-square work surface to take advantage of their inherent designed accuracy).

Clearly, the PGS would be ideal for fabricating a new top for your 1080 or a new MFT, and several of its components might be very useful in drilling the dog holes for your Bench Top Bench.

As a matter if information, I recently received my PGS from Axminster here in Florida; the invoice cost was £99.96, $123.40US.  I bought several other items, among them a couple guide rail clamps that appear to be identical to Festool items that sell for $43 a pair that Axminster gets $8/ea for.  Wish I'd bought several.

The PGS came with the round shank 20mm drill bit, I bought a an extra, centrotec shanked bit and stop collar for $25.67 just because.  I ordered my PGS a week or so before Peter Parfitt announced the change to the centrotec bit being included in the PGS.

Best, Gary

Edit:  Oops.  My bad.  As noted below, My info about the 20mm drill bit included with the PGS was wrong.  Apologies.  Thanks, squarecut.

Gary,

Good question. One thing I shoot for is flexibility.  My MFT is very flexible but it's too low and doesn't work well for certain clamping situations. That bench top bench with Moxon vise in Clark's post above looks just what I need.

Having more, aligned 20mm holes may give me more flexibility when clamping. And, even without more holes, the PGS may make it easier to get the standard holes aligned better.

Finally, I have one of those MFT Systainers shown in Clark's post above. It's worked very well for some work on the house. So a mini-workbench can be very useful. Whether more holes will make more useful is an open question.

Regards,

Dan