uk price fixing still alive and well

[skinee]

despite the european fines in the recent past it seems festool are still price fixing in the U.K.,they have recently pulled the plug on the powertoolworld.co.uk online shop,the reason,although they won't officially admit it,is because powertoolworld sold festool gear a for a little less than they should have,so unless a dealer sells at their rigged/inflated prices they are out of business,what a disgrace,i wonder what the correct body to make a complaint to would be here?(i have no connection to powertoolworld other than being a longstanding customer)

 

[Deansocial]

Ffx still selling cheap

 

[Deansocial]

How do you know they have pulled the plug?

 

[ajones]

I believe that prices were artificially high prior to the judgement to allow prices to be pegged back a little to give the appearance of independent pricing

what you see is dealers all selling at the same price [scratch chin]

 

[skinee]

How do you know they have pulled the plug?

well i they have had a festool sale on,i ordered some things,some very good bargains(too good for festools liking obviously),then it went to a clearence sale,i ordered again and was contacted regarding an out of stock item,had it straight from the horses mouth at that point,its a real shame,i guess managerial/fatcat greed knows no bounds.

 

[ajones]

Ffx still selling cheap

advertising cheap when its out of stock... not the same thing  eg sys1 with internal compartments on special but out of stock for over a month ....pointless

 

[ldmillar1981]

I got a mft/3 just before Christmas, i found it for £412 + vat online and asked my dealer to price match, something they have been happy to do in the past, they told me they don't stock that item and it would be £465 + vat, a lot of haggling and moaning later and apparently some calls to festool they matched the price. I asked why they had to call festool they said they were unsure what to do in the current situation as they didn't want to loose there festool dealership.

I think price fixing is a fast I don't mind paying good money for a good tool but why should that price be artificially set what's wrong with a free market?

I have found the kapex for £1050 + vat with the ug set included, which compared to elsewhere is a bargain. Should I snap this up before they the prices are hiked up again?

I also just got the cxs set on eBay from mts power tools that was £80 cheaper then everywhere else, I did have to bid on 15 until I got it for the price I was happy with.

Regards
Leigh

 

[neth27]

I don't think it's a disgrace I believe if festool want to control it I think they should be aloud.  

My regular festool dealer who is a very good festool dealer has told me he's considering ditching festool because places like Powertoolworld are driving the prices so low he has to drop the prices himself.

So in the end we are going to be left with crap dealers.

Not only that more and more tradesmen are buying festool now cus they are becoming affordable.  I kinda liked the idea that it was out of the price range of a lot of trades men.

Are you serious??????????

 

[ldmillar1981]

I don't think it has opened festool up to the masses. The accessories are priced such that to adopt the system is still expensive.

I am a newish festool user, but For me i looked to festool because they make my life easier and allow me to preform a task quicker. For me that's an investment in a tool that overtime gives me a return and is better engineered to last longer.

I didn't realise you had to apply for membership, for club festool?

 

[skinee]

I don't think it's a disgrace I believe if festool want to control it I think they should be aloud.  

My regular festool dealer who is a very good festool dealer has told me he's considering ditching festool because places like Powertoolworld are driving the prices so low he has to drop the prices himself.

So in the end we are going to be left with crap dealers.

Not only that more and more tradesmen are buying festool now cus they are becoming affordable.  I kinda liked the idea that it was out of the price range of a lot of trades men.

i don't mind paying a premium price for a premium product but i object to the price being held artificially high by practices such as this,it wouldn't be so bad if you thought it was being ploughed back into research and development but that surely can't be the case given the number of ill thought out poorly tested products they have produced

 

[neth27]

I don't think it's a disgrace I believe if festool want to control it I think they should be aloud.  

My regular festool dealer who is a very good festool dealer has told me he's considering ditching festool because places like Powertoolworld are driving the prices so low he has to drop the prices himself.

So in the end we are going to be left with crap dealers.

Not only that more and more tradesmen are buying festool now cus they are becoming affordable.  I kinda liked the idea that it was out of the price range of a lot of trades men.

Are you serious??????????

Yip lol haaahaa

I hate that people think its der right to get a deal.

If ur not happy dont buy it simple .   If festool want to control the price and people keep buying so be it.  

Of course its your right to get a deal.... If you went to buy a house would you offer the asking price? No... If you want to buy a brand new car would you just give them the asking price? No.. Do you stick with the same insurance companies, electric, gas suppliers year after year? No... You look to get a better deal.. Why should shopping for tools be any different?

John..

 

[ajones]

I don't think it's a disgrace I believe if festool want to control it I think they should be aloud.  

My regular festool dealer who is a very good festool dealer has told me he's considering ditching festool because places like Powertoolworld are driving the prices so low he has to drop the prices himself.

So in the end we are going to be left with crap dealers.

Not only that more and more tradesmen are buying festool now cus they are becoming affordable.  I kinda liked the idea that it was out of the price range of a lot of trades men.

i don't mind paying a premium price for a premium product but i object to the price being held artificially high by practices such as this,it wouldn't be so bad if you thought it was being ploughed back into research and development but that surely can't be the case given the number of ill thought out poorly tested products they have produced

One they are good tools okay they have created dud but have gone back to fix it.

Also the price fix benefits the dealer as the dealer gets the money not festool. It's just that some dealers will keep dropping prices to undercut another dealer even if this means u have to sell a lot of tools to make money.

You see how it works.

Lets say a dealer can get a TS55 from festool for £400  ( ignore the numbers they are just for illustration purposes)

He is not aloud to sell it for less than £500   So he makes £100

Now if he buys 50x TS55   He then pays £350 per TS55 so he's making  £150

Now festool also offer this training course for dealers every training course a dealer goes on for every tool they get even bigger discounts

So in the end a dealer once he's done all the training course cud get a TS55 for £300 or less making £200+

So keeping the price fix the dealer has to keep at £500 he makes good money.  This then allows the dealer to spend time on supplying good service to the customer but also people like you and me will stick with the same dealer over and over again cus you know you can't get it cheaper else where so you build up a relationship.

But now dealers who just want to undercut the next dealer on the Internet will just keep dropping the price to stay the cheapest untill der is no decent profit in it any more for dealers cus festool still carrying on getting the same amount of money

You make me laugh Jmb you love a bit of sneaky festol discount [big grin] [big grin]

 

[Davej]

Jmb , have you never asked for a discount on anything , ever ! be it festool or anything else ?  It is a right to ASK for a discount but not a right to get one. What on earth is wrong with more tradesmen being able to buy festool , for the last 20 odd years my priority , like many others, has been to put food on the table and now  i can finally treat myself to some very high quality tools , All tool manufacturers put a high R.R.P  knowing the dealers will discount them so why should festool be any different as their prices are a lot higher to start with

 

[Kev]

In Australia we have the concept of Festool premium shops ... a premium shop has a comprehensive range, skilled people with product knowledge and both a readiness to support a sale or assist with post sale problems encountered. All round excellent service.

My local Festool premium shop is just down the road from a massive discount tools warehouse that also sells Festool. You notice the customers going from the discount warehouse to the premium shop ... asking a bunch of questions ... then returning to the discount warehouse.

The discount warehouse obeys the "fixed price policy" that Festool dictates, but nothing stops them throwing in other products to make a deal more attractive.

This is the side of the retail landscape that annoys and frustrates me .... my local premium shop will be gradually squeezed out of business by discounters (both bricks and mortar and online) and with them will go all of the Festool benefits I pay for at their premium service shop.

This always reminds me of a discussion I had with a client that owns a large chain of sports footwear stores ... his frustration that he would drive people out of the store if he charged a refundable $10 for a fitting, yet an estimated 50% of his customers try on several shoes, get advice, then leave and order online cheaper. His retail overhead and stocks don't allow him to compete with a web retailers, yet he gives expert advice and fitting of correct shoes for different types of feet and athletic requirements.

At the end of the day three things will happen ...

First the businesses that like to make a good profit in exchange for a beneficial service will go out of business

Next the discounters will undercut each other until only one or two remain

Lastly the dominant players remaining in the landscape will provide what ever they can get at the cheapest price and change to poor end consumer absurdly high prices ... because they can

... to compete with this ultimate brand destruction, manufacturers will go direct and take over narrow verticals of their entire supply chain direct to their consumers, but at premium prices - standard, direct, premium prices.

 

[PeterK]

Thanks for that post Kev.
So much of what you wrote applies to many other products. I am into audio/video stuff. Loved the high end stores but they are virtually all gone now. Even the mid level stores are mostly gone or only offering low end products. Some audio manufacturers only offer their products through physical stores but this is backfiring now with the closure of so many stores. The current trend seems destined to destroy many physical businesses and maybe more important to lower the overall quality or the end of products.

 

[Wooden Lungs]

I think its ALLOWED  to shop around for a bargain. I would rather buy a good quality tool from a faceless web site than have a chat with some rep in a shop who will sell me the same tool at a higher price!
I am perturbed by the fact that Festool are manufactured in Germany and sell in Ireland and the UK for a higher price than they sell in the US????.
Surely the shipping costs alone would increase the cost to sell in the US? Or am I missing somthing and its all about government tax?

I think the notion that certain tools should give people a notion of elitism is pathetic.

It is all about creating good work and for tradesmen to better themselves and provide for their families. To own good quality tools from any good tool manufacturer that will help them in their day to day work.

We can all see the changes on the high street. It is not getting destroyed it is in a period of change. Actual stores are being replaced by online companies.
These companies still have to employ people and they have owners who turn a profit and they have customers who use them over and over!

I think people need to realise that how people shop whether online or on the high street is in a dramatic period of change where even experts can not forsee where it will all end up.

 

[Davej]

I think its ALLOWED  to shop around for a bargain. I would rather buy a good quality tool from a faceless web site than have a chat with some rep in a shop who will sell me the same tool at a higher price!
I am perturbed by the fact that Festool are manufactured in Germany and sell in Ireland and the UK for a higher price than they sell in the US????.
Surely the shipping costs alone would increase the cost to sell in the US? Or am I missing somthing and its all about government tax?

I think the notion that certain tools should give people a notion of elitism is pathetic.

It is all about creating good work and for tradesmen to better themselves and provide for their families. To own good quality tools from any good tool manufacturer that will help them in their day to day work.

We can all see the changes on the high street. It is not getting destroyed it is in a period of change. Actual stores are being replaced by online companies.
These companies still have to employ people and they have owners who turn a profit and they have customers who use them over and over!

I think people need to realise that how people shop whether online or on the high street is in a dramatic period of change where even experts can not forsee where it will all end up.

+1 [thumbs up] [thumbs up]

 

[neth27]

I think its ALLOWED  to shop around for a bargain. I would rather buy a good quality tool from a faceless web site than have a chat with some rep in a shop who will sell me the same tool at a higher price!
I am perturbed by the fact that Festool are manufactured in Germany and sell in Ireland and the UK for a higher price than they sell in the US????.
Surely the shipping costs alone would increase the cost to sell in the US? Or am I missing somthing and its all about government tax?

I think the notion that certain tools should give people a notion of elitism is pathetic.

It is all about creating good work and for tradesmen to better themselves and provide for their families. To own good quality tools from any good tool manufacturer that will help them in their day to day work.

We can all see the changes on the high street. It is not getting destroyed it is in a period of change. Actual stores are being replaced by online companies.
These companies still have to employ people and they have owners who turn a profit and they have customers who use them over and over!

I think people need to realise that how people shop whether online or on the high street is in a dramatic period of change where even experts can not forsee where it will all end up.

+1 [thumbs up] [thumbs up]

+2  [big grin]

 

[Deansocial]

Good post wooden lungs

 

[skinee]

i don't believe that festools price rigging is for the benefit of the dealers (thereby ensuring they provide a good service),i think its simply to increase their own profits, we have seen here recently the demise of several major bricks and mortar retailers and the online traders going from strength to strength,this tide won't be turned and if conventional dealers close it will be because of this type of competition,what sort of 'good service' do we need from a dealer anyway?i think most potential premium tool buyers will have a good idea of what they want and will have researched reviews and  forums online before they go near a shop to fork out a hefty sum of money,this then negates theory that specialist knowledge from the dealer is a prerequisite in the tool buying process, the vast majority of festool dealers wether online or otherwise sell many other brands of tools and even though they may have been on courses i think it would be hard to be thoroughly knowledgeable on  all their stock lines,personally all i want from a dealer is to supply the tool in a good condition,reasonably quickly and as cheaply as possible,any technical problems encountered thereafter are best dealt with the manufacturer who are best qualified to sort it out.