Universal blade vs. Panther for TS 55?

[semenza]

Hi,

    The trouble is that for some reason (the plates are the same thickness) the amount of additional splinter strip that gets removed is much more than the amount of kerf difference.  A shim thick enough to do the job will push the keyed arbor washer too far out and nearly out of the keys.

Seth

 

[rodwolfy]

For the TS55 and ATF55, all widths are listed in my catalog as 2.5 except for 48 tooth Fine blade(491952), listed @ 2.2, and the 48 tooth Laminate/Mineral Blade (489457), listed @2.6

Hi,

   In the 2007 US catalog the Universal blade for the TS55 & ATF55 is listed as 2.2 when it is actually 2.5.  Making it the same as the Panther.  Interestingly the catalog lists the Universal and Fine blades for the TS75 as 2.4  and the Panther as 2.6. Can someone who owns the Blades for the TS75 take a look an the blade and verify the kerf. May they do match up for the TS75?

Seth

OK,

I guess I'm a little confused. Festool is offering the Panther Blade as a bonus if you buy the TS55. But, from what I'm reading, it looks like it will re-cut the rubber kerf strip to the left of the blade? Won't that make it so that there is more chipout on sheet goods? Does that mean that I'll have to switch out the rubber strip every time I switch out between the Panther blade and the Combination blade that comes with the saw? Is there any kind of work around, or was this just poor engineering? I want to buy the saw, so that I can do cabinets from sheet goods, with the occasional rip cut on solid lumber. From what I've read of old postings, the TS55 isn't strong enough to rip 8/4 or even 6/4 most of the time, unless you switch to the Panther blade...

If I'm predominantly cutting down sheets of hardwood plywood, what is the best blade to use? The one that comes with the saw kit, or that 28 tooth one that I saw mentioned?

Also, I'm new to Festool products. They offer the Panther free with the saw right now. Do they commonly have other specials before Christmas, but after this one expires (like next month?).

Cheers,

Rod

 

[semenza]

OK,

I guess I'm a little confused. Festool is offering the Panther Blade as a bonus if you buy the TS55. But, from what I'm reading, it looks like it will re-cut the rubber kerf strip to the left of the blade?

      > Yes.

Won't that make it so that there is more chipout on sheet goods?

       >Yes, but the chip out is not much worse. Partly because the Fine blade is so good. The bigger problem in my opinion is that the splinter strip no longer aligns with the cut mark.

Does that mean that I'll have to switch out the rubber strip every time I switch out between the Panther blade and the Combination blade that comes with the saw?

     
       > The TS55 comes with the Fine blade at 2.2mm kerf. If you use the Panther (2.5 kerf) or the Universal (2.5 kerf) blade the splinterstrip will be trimmed more. Inducing a bit more splintering and throwing off the cut line when you go back to the Fine blade.

Is there any kind of work around, or was this just poor engineering?

        > Not a good work around. You can remove and restick the splinter strip. Or adjust the saw on the base plate. Both a PITA.

I want to buy the saw, so that I can do cabinets from sheet goods, with the occasional rip cut on solid lumber. From what I've read of old postings, the TS55 isn't strong enough to rip 8/4 or even 6/4 most of the time, unless you switch to the Panther blade...

          >Pretty much on target in anything other than pine. The Universal blade will do the job pretty well but has the same  wider kerf problem.

If I'm predominantly cutting down sheets of hardwood plywood, what is the best blade to use? The one that comes with the saw kit, or that 28 tooth one that I saw mentioned?

          >The Fine blade will be the best performer on hardwood plywood. The Universal (28 tooth) is not bad and will do the rip cuts also.

Also, I'm new to Festool products. They offer the Panther free with the saw right now. Do they commonly have other specials before Christmas, but after this one expires (like next month?).

Cheers,

Rod

HI,

    See inserted answers above.

                       The kerf thicknesses above are for the TS55 blades. The TS75s  are  different. Also the TS55 comes with the Fine blade, and the TS75 comes with the Universal blade.   Another way to avoid cutting the strip wider is to use the Parallel Stop ( rip guide) for ripping instead of the guide rail. But the guide rail is still the better option most of the time.  If you want to cut down sheet goods  - get the TS55 and use either the Fine blade or Universal blade. You will NOT be disappointed. All of this talk about the "problems" with the splinter strip/kerf is mostly myself and some others getting a bit nit picky about an incredible tool. Don't be put off from the saw by my pickyness.  It is brought on by having perfection within reach because Festool is  a company that strives for it!

Seth

 

[gkeas]

so has anyone tried (compared) the Panther with the special blade for laminates (in relation to the splinter striP?)  the kerf with is very close (.1mm difference) is very close between those. 

I also wonder how the laminate blade would do for cross cuts.

 

[Tinker]

I have used the laminate (negative pitch) blade for cutting plywood and MDFB.  I have not had any noticable problems cutting either material.  Next riany day, I will pull out some scraps of each and make a few cuts, both square and at 45?.  I want to do some experimenting with compound angled cuts wuth my ATF 55 anyhow. 

It is difficult to set the tilt so it is even close to dead on, and i have a project coming up where I want to try several different settings. I will do my experimenting with the combi and the negative pitch blade.

i'll try to give something of a report.
Tinker

 

[Michael Kellough]

I've used the Panther blade a few times and each time I have to reset the rubber strip. It isn't simply a matter of the static kerf difference between blades it is the radical actual (dynamic) kerf difference. My Panther's actual kerf varies from 3 to 6mm or more. Twice it came within a cats whisker of cutting into the guide rail. The aluminum part.  Out of frustration with that I bought a Universal blade. It is a bit wider than the fine tooth blade but it is pretty stable and not too slow to rip with. I doubt I'll be using the Panther again.

Tinker the ATF 55 trunnions are not well suited to bevels beyond 40 degrees. At that point there is almost no contact between the saw and the base. The TS models are much better in that regard. The trunnions are much bigger and double tracked so you can more easily get a reliable bevel setting. I've done it with my ATF55 but I had to use a Wixey digital angle meter (and modify the saw so it would stay plunged). I could get the angle I wanted eventually but I couldn't maintain the proper toe (at 45 degrees) with so little contact between the saw and base so I'd have to change the angle to suit the effect of the wrong toe and hope I didn't change the toe again too.

If you have a lot of compound miters to do I'd suggest an upgrade to the TS. Also, if you get close to the angle you need you might want to tape shims to the bottom of the saw's shoe to sneak up on the angle rather than the back and forth hit or miss process involving the knobs. And keep in mind that it is often better to overcut than undercut when joining beveled pieces.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I'd like to order a couple of your shims!

Dave R.

A quick search, this is the closest i found.

Click me

it's 3/4" (with .015" extra) by .254mm thick.

Thanks, Garry.  Did you notice those shims are advertised as being made of PVC, which is confirmed by the lack of any hardness information and low strength.  PVC has a rather high coefficient of thermal expansion.  Thus, my concern would be that the blade may work loose with usage due to thermal cycling.  And as Seth as pointed out, the key on the saw's arbor doesn't extend very far and insertion of a shim will reduce engagement of the key.  (I don't view that key as the primary torque transfer mechanism in Festool's TS 55 saw; I think torque is primarily transferred through frictional engagment of the sides of the blades with the flanges on the arbor and arbor bolt/washer.  (On my 7 1/4" Skillsaw, the arbor bolt is equipped with a Belleville washer (cupped) and the bolt is tightened to a specified torque.  This simple mechanism functions as a clutch.  If an overload condition occurs, such as hitting a hard knot, the blade will slip relative to the arbor and washer on the bolt.  All of these parts are smaller in diameter than the Festool TS 55 components, and that Skillsaw has a more powerful motor.  Of course, it is not designed to be as accurate in terms of arbor/blade runout as is the Festool TS 55.)

Dave R.

 

[gkeas]

I'd like to order a couple of your shims!

Dave R.

A quick search, this is the closest i found.

Click me

it's 3/4" (with .015" extra) by .254mm thick.

Thanks, Garry.  Did you notice those shims are advertised as being made of PVC, which is confirmed by the lack of any hardness information and low strength.  PVC has a rather high coefficient of thermal expansion.  Thus, my concern would be that the blade may work loose with usage due to thermal cycling. 
Dave R.

I did find some low carbon steel options,  too, but without as much extra room for the 3/4" ID. I found 3/4" with .006" thickness (.152 mm)

 

[semenza]

HI,

      If someone is going to try the shim idea , the shim will need to be about 1/32" of an inch. Not the difference in the blade kerf. As that is about how much gets trimmed off. When I checked out the depth of the keys on the washer it is quite possible that this will put them completely out of the key ways. Now to me that sounds bad because the keys could then be sliding or slipping around the arbor on the blade surface.  Another side effect is that the blade will be moved that much to the right and will be getting VERY close to the bottom edge of the housing were the blade exits. As much as I want to see this problem fixed the shimming sounds like a recipe for trouble.

Seth

 

[rodwolfy]

HI,

    See inserted answers above.

                       The kerf thicknesses above are for the TS55 blades. The TS75s  are  different. Also the TS55 comes with the Fine blade, and the TS75 comes with the Universal blade.   Another way to avoid cutting the strip wider is to use the Parallel Stop ( rip guide) for ripping instead of the guide rail. But the guide rail is still the better option most of the time.  If you want to cut down sheet goods  - get the TS55 and use either the Fine blade or Universal blade. You will NOT be disappointed. All of this talk about the "problems" with the splinter strip/kerf is mostly myself and some others getting a bit nit picky about an incredible tool. Don't be put off from the saw by my pickyness.  It is brought on by having perfection within reach because Festool is  a company that strives for it!

Seth
[/quote]

Seth,

Thank you for the answers! The parallel guide rail works, then? Like if I wanted to rip a 1"x6" into two 2 1/4" pieces, I could do this on site using the Panter and the Parallel guide? Or would I be better off ripping them at home on my table saw and taking them to the job site to assemble into frame and panel doors? (like is the parallel guide used much if you have guide rails?).

I've read over several posts on the guide rails. I'm thinking of buying the 75" in addition to the one that comes with the saw and either the 106" or 118" (I cut down a lot of sheet goods). The long one will likely hang on my wall, so the length doesn't matter with regards to storage. However, which one of the long ones is better for ripping 8' sheet goods? I read that I need several inches before and after the wood for the saw. Will the 106" cover this just fine? Any reason to spend the extra for the 118"? I'm not planning on getting any of the guide rail connectors.

Thanks again,

Rod

 

[semenza]

Seth,

Thank you for the answers! The parallel guide rail works, then? Like if I wanted to rip a 1"x6" into two 2 1/4" pieces, I could do this on site using the Panter and the Parallel guide? Or would I be better off ripping them at home on my table saw and taking them to the job site to assemble into frame and panel doors? (like is the parallel guide used much if you have guide rails?).

I've read over several posts on the guide rails. I'm thinking of buying the 75" in addition to the one that comes with the saw and either the 106" or 118" (I cut down a lot of sheet goods). The long one will likely hang on my wall, so the length doesn't matter with regards to storage. However, which one of the long ones is better for ripping 8' sheet goods? I read that I need several inches before and after the wood for the saw. Will the 106" cover this just fine? Any reason to spend the extra for the 118"? I'm not planning on getting any of the guide rail connectors.

Thanks again,

Rod

Hi,

      Yes the parallel guide works well. You could do the rip you describe. Your table saw would be better of course. The guide rails will do better than the parallel guide. Just a note the rails are excellent for straight line ripping rough boards.  I used to have the 106" rail and it is long enough to do eight foot cuts. When I upgraded to the FS/2 rails I got the 118". I just like the extra length.  The 75" is very useful. long enough to make cuts that are over 48" but not unwieldy.  If you  have been reading other threads on the rail lengths you will find plenty of opinions.

Seth

 

[Corwin]

There might just be more going on where the rubber meets the blade -- though somewhat less of a factor than the kerf differences, the depth of cut should also come into play.  This would not be the case if the saw were to run true down the rail, but the saws are set to glide down the rail with a heel out attitude.  I would think that if you were to trim a new rubber strip with a shallow depth of cut you would find that with each next deeper cut the rubber would get trimmed a little more.

The issue here with the rubber strip is surely not a big deal, but it something to take into consideration in some instances.  It would be better if the different blades cut kerfs that were a little closer in size, as this would minimize the effects. 

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I mostly work at my home shop so I don't have to be concerned about transport of my guide rails.  Had I better understood the convenience, time savings and accuracy provided by a longer single-piece rail for cutting plywood, I would have bought the 118" guide rail.  I find joining my two 55" rails to rip cut  plywood a bit of a nuisance.  More time and care are needed to ensure they form a truly straight line and that they don't shift at their joint when repositione from cut to cut.  If you ever decide to purchase a TS 75, the extra length will come in handy to better support the larger base of that saw.

Dave R.