Using an ETS EC 150/5 for Car Paint Detailing - Could Use Some Advice Please

[atacama40]

Morning all, I fall into the capable amateur sector not profession user, but have been using and acquiring Festool products for the last 12 years very happily.

But I have a new area I'd like to explore and could use more knowledgeable folks input on.

We have an older car that could benefit from some simple paint detailing. The sort of thing you see on Youtube were car detailers essentially polish off a thin layer of original car paint to eradicate minor scratches and imperfections, using differing grades of pads and compounds.

The process they show uses specific car orientated products. And if they really are that much different then that's fine. But they seem very little more than the Festool ETSEC 150/5 with more specialised pads on them? Would that be a fair assessment? Would it be a sensible option to be using that unit with the right pads and compounds to improve paint finish? If so what products (pads / grades of pads etc) would it be correct to use?

Just to explain a little further. I'm not refinishing a collectable Rolls Royce for a concourse car show but doing a minor tidy up of the Grandson's 'learn to drive' first car .... a 2017 Toyota Aygo that is already in surprisingly good condition.

Really interested in suggestions, recommendations of products, accessories, and indeed any first hand experience of doing this that you might have.

Many thanks in advance

 

[Cheese]

Unfortunately, the ETS EC will not give you the desired results because the pad will stop orbiting once pressure is applied to the sander. The good news is that any of the Rotexs will complete the task nicely. Here are some before & after examples on a 2012 Equinox using a RO 125. The last photo is an example of the hood when completed.

 

[MMCO]

I would add that it depends on the condition of the paint and the desired result. I used my RO 90 to do some detailing on a car that had oxidization and fine scratches. I already owned the tool and bought the appropriate Festool interface pad. I did not have good luck and I tried many different compounds and foam pads from Griots Garage. I contacted their excellent support and was told it was likely due to the relatively small stroke of the RO 90. I was skeptical and bought one of their random orbital polishers and was truly amazed at the difference the longer stroke made. I cannot say enough about their knowledgeable support people. Good luck.

 

[Cheese]

I contacted their excellent support and was told it was likely due to the relatively small stroke of the RO 90.

Now that's funny...I use the RO 90 to polish out headlights and it works really well on all of them I've done.

 

[onocoffee]

Just a thought - if you find that either the RO90/125/150 are beyond what you're willing to spend, you might consider the Bosch GET75. The Bosch comes in both a 5N and 6N version (5" or 6"). The GET75 is pretty much the Rotex equivalent at a lower price point.

 

[derekcohen]

I detail our cars and have dedicated equipment. My thoughts ...

Sanders will do a decent job on refurbishing headlights ... because they are sanders. On headlights one uses 240 through 2000 grit, before turning to buffing media.

A buffer for paint is a different matter, and I would not instead attempt to use a sander on paintwork. I have dedicated polishers by Rupes, who are the Festool of the car world. These are less aggressive than a sander, with a more control for cooler work. It is necessary to match the polishing pad with the polish, and these are also a match for the polisher 's pad. A sander is likely to be contaminated by grit, and this will create scratches and swirls in the paint surface.

There are a number of inexpensive polishers available. I would recommend you get one.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Chainring]

This is a situation of, "It depends."

The ETS EC is going to be like the super newbie friendly Porter Cable 7424. Both are random orbit only; no forced rotation. Push too hard on the pad and it'll stop. Both have a limited throw, so any correction may take a while. It'll be difficult to mess up with these machines.

The Rotex is going to be like a Flex 3401 in that both have forced rotation. The Rotex has an advantage in that forced rotation can be turned off. Push too hard with one of these (RO in Rotex mode) and you will burn paint. The Flex has more throw than the RO so it should correct faster. Both will be faster than random orbit only machines.

I have the Flex 3401, Flex PXE 80, RO 150, ETS EC 150/3 and RO 90. When I want to go fast, it's the Flex 3401 and that's about all I use on larger panels, but then I've been detailing my cars for the past 30 years and have lots of prior experience with previous polishers. I've had the Flex 3401 since 2011.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I'm an "old-school" trained bodyshop guy. I moved to that sector, from my time as a motorcycle mechanic. This was in the mid 90s..... All of the buffers/polishers back then were rotation only. They had no orbit at all. Essentially, they were just a larger, slower rotating, angle grinder. However, it takes some skill to polish a car, with one of those. That's not to say it doesn't take skill to run the newer versions too, but it is very different. The geared orbiting type is more forgiving.
I too have used an RO 90 for headlights. While it does have a smaller orbit, but it is well suited for the small pad. Some people say that they are difficult to use, jumpy and uncontrollable. It would be worse. with more orbit.
Random orbit sanders are not going to give you the same results.
Your level of woodworking, might determine which way to go here. If you would use it enough, RO150 would be a great addition to your collection.
As onocoffe said above, there are less costly alternatives, if it would be less frequently used.

 

[atacama40]

Unfortunately, the ETS EC will not give you the desired results because the pad will stop orbiting once pressure is applied to the sander. The good news is that any of the Rotexs will complete the task nicely. Here are some before & after examples on a 2012 Equinox using a RO 125. The last photo is an example of the hood when completed.

Many thanks for the reply. I do have a Rotex but it felt very heavy duty compared to the ETS. I'd sort of wrote it off on that basis but that's interesting to know about. I'm just trying to remember the model number of our unit. It's certainly of the same era as the unit you mention.

The photos are very interesting and great result. There's clearly more to learn here than I originally thought.

 

[atacama40]

I would add that it depends on the condition of the paint and the desired result. I used my RO 90 to do some detailing on a car that had oxidization and fine scratches. I already owned the tool and bought the appropriate Festool interface pad. I did not have good luck and I tried many different compounds and foam pads from Griots Garage. I contacted their excellent support and was told it was likely due to the relatively small stroke of the RO 90. I was skeptical and bought one of their random orbital polishers and was truly amazed at the difference the longer stroke made. I cannot say enough about their knowledgeable support people. Good luck.

I have to admit to having the same thoughts ..... but without the actual experience. I had been leaning towards buying a dedicated unit but the cost was a little eye watering for a somewhat budget car. That said I've had this itch to learn how to do this for two or three years now. Has to happen one way or another

Many thanks for sharing your experience on this one.

 

[atacama40]

Now that's funny...I use the RO 90 to polish out headlights and it works really well on all of them I've done.

More I think about it, the more I think my unit is a 90 .... picked up off ebay some year back cheaply.

And whilst the car in question's paint is actually is surprisingly good condition, we also have the issue with plastic light covers that have degraded over the years. So this is also very interesting to know about.

Thanks for the photos. Is it possible you could describe the steps you did and material choices please? I can see the various grades of disks and get the basic idea but little step by step would be brilliant. There's not so much data out there on Festool and paint polishing although I did see reference to a kit that Festool do for this purpose.

 

[atacama40]

Just a thought - if you find that either the RO90/125/150 are beyond what you're willing to spend, you might consider the Bosch GET75. The Bosch comes in both a 5N and 6N version (5" or 6"). The GET75 is pretty much the Rotex equivalent at a lower price point.

I definitely do have a Rotex and soon as sun up (its a little early here) I'll check out which model it is. I know it's very noisy and get very hot around the handle area when used. But it does rip up hard wood floors rather well. I think it might have an issue internally and why I've got the impression it was more heavy duty. I think maybe it might be time to get it serviced by Festool anyway. But thanks for the steer on the Bosch.

 

[atacama40]

I detail our cars and have dedicated equipment. My thoughts ...

Sanders will do a decent job on refurbishing headlights ... because they are sanders. On headlights one uses 240 through 2000 grit, before turning to buffing media.

A buffer for paint is a different matter, and I would not instead attempt to use a sander on paintwork. I have dedicated polishers by Rupes, who are the Festool of the car world. These are less aggressive than a sander, with a more control for cooler work. It is necessary to match the polishing pad with the polish, and these are also a match for the polisher 's pad. A sander is likely to be contaminated by grit, and this will create scratches and swirls in the paint surface.

There are a number of inexpensive polishers available. I would recommend you get one.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Many thanks for sharing the experience Derek ..... a picture is coming together.

And indeed over here I have read articles about a budget polisher from one of the budget supermarkets (lIdl) that has gained somewhat surprising reviews for a very low price point. I read about the Rupes suit also but whilst it reads best of breed, it's probably above our need point. That said, I do like to get these things right and I suspect it won't be limited to just this current car in question. Many thanks for that summary .... is helpful stuff.

 

[atacama40]

I'm an "old-school" trained bodyshop guy. I moved to that sector, from my time as a motorcycle mechanic. This was in the mid 90s..... All of the buffers/polishers back then were rotation only. They had no orbit at all. Essentially, they were just a larger, slower rotating, angle grinder. However, it takes some skill to polish a car, with one of those. That's not to say it doesn't take skill to run the newer versions too, but it is very different. The geared orbiting type is more forgiving.
I too have used an RO 90 for headlights. While it does have a smaller orbit, but it is well suited for the small pad. Some people say that they are difficult to use, jumpy and uncontrollable. It would be worse. with more orbit.
Random orbit sanders are not going to give you the same results.
Your level of woodworking, might determine which way to go here. If you would use it enough, RO150 would be a great addition to your collection.
As onocoffe said above, there are less costly alternatives, if it would be less frequently used.

And contradicting my earlier post, I'm now convinced it is indeed the RO150 that we have here. But I am wondering if there is an issue with it as it is a bit of a beast to control. Maybe that's why I'm getting a somewhat negative impression of it ... despite it being great at renovating hardwood flooring.... which has been our main use f it to date.

I think tomorrow I'm going to book it in to Festool's repair service here in the UK and get it looked over and repaired if necessary. I guess car paint work is not the place to find out there's a broken gearbox in it!

But it's good to know that at least I have the right tools for the job even if it was not the tool I imagined it would be. And I think I'm going to try and find an old car panel or wing to try it on before attacking an otherwise fairly good condition car. Thanks for taking the time with the advise

 

[tjbnwi]

Buy a fender from a junk yard that the finish is in very bad shape, this will give you something to practice on with a small cash outlay. Being off the vehicle allows you to practice flat and vertical.

The most important thing when it comes to paint correction is a very thorough wash and dry. A small bench blower or leaf blower is great for blowing out the cracks and crevices.

Once you get the real bug you’ll be wet sanding and de-nibbling with a nib file.

Tom

 

[atacama40]

And just a general note of thanks to all replying to my post ..... The Festool forum is a genuinely helpful and responsive platform .... especially to us non professionals who maybe come in with odd questions. It's really nice to get genuine and useful advise without being made to feel a total idiot.

 

[atacama40]

Buy a fender from a junk yard that the finish is in very bad shape, this will give you something to practice on with a small cash outlay. Being off the vehicle allows you to practice flat and vertical.

The most important thing when it comes to paint correction is a very thorough wash and dry. A small bench blower or leaf blower is great for blowing out the cracks and crevices.

Once you get the real bug you’ll be wet sanding and de-nibbling with a nib file.

Tom

Is a good call Tom. Thanks for that.

As it goes I do have a very solid car cleaning set up. I bought a new high end EV three years back and treated myself to all the toys and tools car valet wise ..... driers, a di-ioniser unit, the full nine yards. Ironically I did stop at the polishing and ceramic point .... it was just a bridge too far then .... scary stuff but now to be braved

I did look at some videos of folks doing the wet and dry routines. But again was just a bit 'out there' then. Now? well maybe. And as you say, on a test panel or old car. And indeed we do have an old Nissan Micra .... a 1994 unit can you believe? that would be a good test candidate for just that.

I have a terrible feeling that once I start and have a little success, that this could become addictive .... as it has with the car cleaning routines.

 

[Cheese]

And indeed over here I have read articles about a budget polisher from one of the budget supermarkets (lIdl) that has gained somewhat surprising reviews for a very low price point. I read about the Rupes suit also but whilst it reads best of breed, it's probably above our need point. That said, I do like to get these things right and I suspect it won't be limited to just this current car in question. Many thanks for that summary .... is helpful stuff.

I completely buffed out a Chrysler 300M with the RO 125 so while that's possible, it led me to purchase a Shinex for the next vehicle. The Shinex normally uses a 150 mm pad but an 80 mm pad can also be fitted for those small difficult areas and a 180 mm pad is also available.
A dedicated automotive polisher is the way to go if there's any likelihood of future use. They're just ergonomically easier to use and are lighter than an RO 150 and less tiring to use. Here's an interesting comparison of a Vecturo 400 vs the Shinex. There's really not much difference in size.

Here's a Festool brochure on #503 Restorative Polishing and a cheat sheet on Festool foam pads.

 

[onocoffee]

I definitely do have a Rotex and soon as sun up (its a little early here) I'll check out which model it is. I know it's very noisy and get very hot around the handle area when used. But it does rip up hard wood floors rather well. I think it might have an issue internally and why I've got the impression it was more heavy duty. I think maybe it might be time to get it serviced by Festool anyway. But thanks for the steer on the Bosch.

It seems to me that the heating on my RO150 is normal - but perhaps one of the others can confirm. My GET75 also gets similarly warm.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

They all get a little warm, but it shouldn't really be, what you would call hot.

Once you get the real bug you’ll be wet sanding and de-nibbling with a nib file.

Tom

Now, you are talking about some skill. Then there is shaving the tops off of runs. with a razor blade. That one takes a minute to master too.