Using Festool Radius Router Bits for edge banding in router table??

[Josh2]

Hi,

the Festool Radius Router Bits for edge banding seem convenient because they trim and round-over edge banding in one pass. Has anyone used them in a router table? Seems to be a nice way to get a kind of stationary solution to trimming edge banding. Or am I missing something?

1mm Radius:https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-499811-radius-router-bit-for-edge-banding-1mm-radius.html
2mm Radius:https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-499809-radius-router-bit-2mm.html
(there also is 1.5mm and 3mm)

 

[Peter Kelly]

Trimming the excess overhanging edgebanding would need to happen prior to doing any edge profiling. The panel wouldn't lay flat on the table or ride squarely along a fence (vertically) otherwise.

$150 for a 1/4" router bit?

 

[Josh2]

Stupid that I didn't think about that. I guess it would work with a groove in the router table.

And yes, these bits are expensive.

Trimming the excess overhanging edgebanding would need to happen prior to doing any edge profiling. The panel wouldn't lay flat on the table or ride squarely along a fence (vertically) otherwise.

$150 for a 1/4" router bit?

 

[Cheese]

$150 for a 1/4" 8 mm router bit?

They aren't terribly priced for insert tooling. Each carbide edge can be turned 90º so you have the equivalent of 4 times the life of a traditional carbide cutter.

They're also really convenient if you're in the middle of a project and you chip the edge, just rotate the insert and return to work...downtime = 10-15 seconds. [smile]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Trimming the excess overhanging edgebanding would need to happen prior to doing any edge profiling. The panel wouldn't lay flat on the table or ride squarely along a fence (vertically) otherwise.

$150 for a 1/4" router bit?

This can be overcome with a simple shim. A piece of 1/4" thick MDF double side taped to the table with a gap to the fence or taped to the fence if you want to run your parts vertically. It works well either way, I've done it for years.

As cheese said, that is not out of line for insert tooling. The initial investment may or may not be feasible for homeowner/hobby use. But it will actually end up costing more in the long run to use brazed carbide bits rather than insert bits.
Something like a simple flush-trim or pattern bit will pay for itself at somewhere around the 3rd time you replace a brazed bit. The insert bit will still be going, probably on it's first set of inserts. The carbide itself is different and does last longer.
My experience is based on Amana bits though. Getting Festool router bits is difficult around here.

 

[afish]

[attachimg=2]Well, Im going to disagree that $150 isnt overpriced since Amana makes these bits as well.  They are so close to the festool bits I wouldnt be surprised if they didnt come from the same factory.  The Amana bits do have a 1/4 shaft and are typically less than 65 bucks each.  So more than double for the festool brand  [eek].  However the Amana doesnt make one for 1mm edge banding  so if you use 1mm you will need the festool bit.  The Festool bits are made to work in the MFK700 with the vertical base.  It will trim and round over in one operation that way. 

Even though I own the 1mm festool bit I keep it chucked up in my cordless dewalt trim router and use it as a final pass once everything is flush trimmed.  I still flush trim first with a blade style trimmer for pvc edge banding and the mfk with the horizontal base for real wood or laminate edge banding.  Im not a fan of removing excess banding with a bit that has a bearing closely mounted to the cutter.  Excess glue has a tendency to gum up the bearing and cause issues if your not careful.  Its safer and easier for me to do it in two separate operations. 

 

[Bohdan]

$150 is cheap.

In Aust the cutter is AU$299.50 and the blades are AU$171.00

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Yes, bit for bit in an equal comparison, the Festool version is always going to cost more. Is there more value to it? Probably not. But as stated, there isn't always a direct duplicate. Personally, I don't have any Festool bits, partly because of cost, partly availability. They are just not sold locally.

My focus was more toward the concept of insert bits in general. All of the ones I have now are 1/2" shank as I have not replaced everything that I lost in the fire. I did have a couple of the 1/4" Amana Intec bits, but have not seen the need as of yet.

As far as me doing this task...I would use a MFK700 too, but that would not be my first recommendation to someone who asked about this procedure. For a guy who is not doing this in a large enough volume, the is a very expensive way to go about it. I do love the MFK700, heck I have two of them, they are very versatile. I use mine a lot and as part of my living, so that is totally different. There again, it's because it can be used on a radius, which is far more complicated on a router table. It can be done, with small enough parts, using the shim procedure as mentioned before, but it becomes cumbersome at some point. Then the "shim" idea can be adapted to a routerbase and used upright, which is effectively the way the EB base of the MFK700 works. This is not how I do it however, I use the horizontal base 1.5 degree for thin edges and zero degree for wider edging.

 

[afish]

Agreed, If there is a insert bit for a need its a no brainer to me. The Festool bit is overpriced insert or not. Festool has premium pricing and I dont mind paying it when the value is there.  However if Amana offered the 1mm bit for 65 bucks like the 2&3mm I wouldnt be owning the Festool bit.  Plus I had to buy a specialty collet to use in the Dewalt trimmer adding even more to the overall cost. There is no difference between the amana/festool bit. other than the 8mm shaft.  If you had both bits and used them side by side and trimmed a panel using each There isnt a person here that could tell which was which. So there is no extra value there its not even green...  [smile]

Trust me when I say I wasnt trying to sell anyone an MFK.  I think of it as a specialty and a luxury tool for most and the money is probably better spent elsewhere for most.  Even though some will argue  about it being a specialty tool. For some there is just no cure for the green flu.  The horizontal base is really the only thing that sets it apart from other small routers or trimmers.  Everything else it does can be accomplished with just about any other small router made.  Even the horizontal feature can be accomplished with a standard trim router and a lil' lipper.  Granted, it still wont have the adjustability or dust collection of the MFK. Only the reader can decide if those feature are worth the cost to them.  The reason why I mentioned it is because the mfk does allow both trimming and rounding in one process and was Festools intension that these bits would pair with the MFK, even though IMO there is better way.   

As far as a router table goes for trimming.  Yes small parts can be beneficial to trim on a table but for anything bigger than approx. 12x12 I would start to use a handheld trimmer most likely.  The problem is, If the router table or part isn't perfectly flat the edge treatment can become inconsistent especially when you are talking about a 1mm round over. With a trimmer its only referencing from a small area right near the cutter which will give a more consistent edge treatment. Of course there are exceptions to every rule but typically speaking that would be best combination of results/effort. 

 

[Crazyraceguy]

You are absolutely right, I wouldn't try to do the round-over with the table mounted method, especially that tiny 1mm. For flush trimming though, especially with laminate "self edge", it works fine.
I've seen those lil lipper devices, but never used one myself. For my use, the MFK700 is as good as I have seen. The only thing I could say against them is the opening where the bit goes. It is very restrictive, requiring very short bits. I can only assume that I was designed around (more likely in conjunction with) their own specific bit. Those are not readily available here though. I have found alternatives for the 1.5 degree base and modified the zero degree base for larger bits.
I even have the right angle mount and plate for the OF1010, if I came across something really odd. I have only used it once in the last year, but it did the job.

 

[afish]

the lil lipper works good for what it is and is a great for someone on a budget. you wont get the 1.5 bevel , dust collection, or fine tuning of the mfk but its less than 50 bucks compared to almost 600

 

[Crazyraceguy]

the lil lipper works good for what it is and is a great for someone on a budget. you wont get the 1.5 bevel , dust collection, or fine tuning of the mfk but its less than 50 bucks compared to almost 600

Would you trust it with a 3/4" wide solid wood edge? Or a radius?

 

[afish]

As long as the edge banding was only overhanging a slight amount, yes. You also use a bottom bearing bit in combination with the lil lipper so its pretty stable the lil' lipper is just providing the stability to keep the trimmer from rocking on the narrow edge while the bearing references the finished surface.  Typical flush trimming rules apply such as dont project the bit more than needed, use a good sharp bit, and dont try to remove to much in one pass. 

 

[afish]

I dont do much if any hardwood edge banding much beyond the 1mm stuff but if I did. I would pick up the EQB base with the bearing break removed for the MFk and the 500368 bit they offer.  That might be the better combo for doing thick edge banding.  I know the Horz. base needs modification but I see very little about using the vertical eqb base.  Any experience with that?

 

[Crazyraceguy]

No I don't. Both of my MFK700s are the normal set units. I would pick up an EB base if I came across one, though I'm not actively looking. It's just more of the having all options thing.
I do have access to a Cantek router that belongs to the shop as part of a portable edgebander set. (MX550AU) It has the off-set handle base and the elevated baseplate, bearing brake, etc. It is strictly set up that way, not modular like the the MFK700.
I really don't do that much in the way of round-overs, especially as flush trimming at the same time.
I do quite a bit of hardwood edging on shelves and countertops. This was the reason for my entry into the Festool realm in the first place. I got a DF500 for this because of the size of the things that I make.
It's not really needed on simple 4' or shorter shelves. Helpful? Sure, especially if it is easy to deploy,(and you already have one) but not required. Once you get into countertops that can easily be 4 times that length, it sure does help. I was new to the brand back then and had no idea that the MFK700 could have helped with this too. It only became a viable solution when I saw Paul Marcel's Youtube video about the modification.
The only lipping planer I had heard of at that time was made by Hoffman. They were quite expensive and limited to a single operation. I did come across Virutex later too, but the cost was more than the MFK700 and not nearly as versatile.

 

[afish]

so, I could be wrong but I dont think so. It looks like based on the Festool parts catalog the only thing that is different from the vertical base that comes in the set and the eqb base is the bearing break assembly and the riser spacer. Since the bearing break isnt really needed for use as a lipping router its only a 15 dollar part and four 4mm screws.  I never use my vertical base anyways so I think Im going to either order one or make one to have around just incase. I have never ordered parts from festool, it doesnt look ypu can order directly from the site.

 

[squall_line]

so, I could be wrong but I dont think so. It looks like based on the Festool parts catalog the only thing that is different from the vertical base that comes in the set and the eqb base is the bearing break assembly and the riser spacer. Since the bearing break isnt really needed for use as a lipping router its only a 15 dollar part and four 4mm screws.  I never use my vertical base anyways so I think Im going to either order one or make one to have around just incase. I have never ordered parts from festool, it doesnt look ypu can order directly from the site.

Correct, on the EKAT for the EQB router, parts 82, 83, 84, and 85 are the differences between the standard base and the EQB base.  Also, the EQB base doesn't come with screws to hold the parallel edge guide rods.

That said, it's even better than you said because part 82, the thin riser/liner, is held on by the same screws as the liner on the bottom of the standard base, so you don't need to buy those 4 screws.

The only difference between my EQB base and EKAT is that mine doesn't have the phenolic piece that covers the entire base (part 55).  I bought the base used, so I'm not sure if it was ditched along the way or if it isn't actually part of the EQB base (the parts fiche have been wrong before).  If you find for some reason that the screws for the riser aren't long enough, remove the long pad as well.

 

[afish]

thanks for clarifying, also I just saw that cmt makes a 1mm insert bit
https://www.cmtorangetools.com/na-e...sert-knives/roundover-bits-with-insert-knives