Using UK 240 tools in USA

[dyates]

I am going to be moving to the US from England and planning to take my festools.
Does anyone have any information or experience using 240 volt- obviously I will need a converter of some sort which I believe I can arrange over here.

I was just wondering if anyone on the forum has done this and if they encountered any problems or issues?

Many thanks,
Daniel

 

[ajones]

I think festools are cheaper in the states so if you sell your tools here and buy new in the states it may not cost too much and you would have the advantage of three years warrantee and the convenience of being able to use them anywhere  [cool]

 

[merlinmaster]

I am pretty sure your going to have trouble with that.  Most power tools are ok with the use of an transformer, but those are the ones that do not have the electronics in them.  The frequency of the power in the UK is 50Hz and in the US it is 60Hz.  This will mess with the electronics, very specifically, the speed control circuits.  a great example is in computers with older power units that can't do the 60Hz, the clocks run fast.  You can purchase an inverter that converts the AC to DC then back to AC again with the correct frequency, but they are expensive and you would need quite a large one to provide the amperage you would need for motors. I agree selling your existing tools and getting new ones would be a better value, especially accounting for shipping.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I am pretty sure your going to have trouble with that.  Most power tools are ok with the use of an transformer, but those are the ones that do not have the electronics in them.  The frequency of the power in the UK is 50Hz and in the US it is 60Hz.  This will mess with the electronics, very specifically, the speed control circuits.  a great example is in computers with older power units that can't do the 60Hz, the clocks run fast.  You can purchase an inverter that converts the AC to DC then back to AC again with the correct frequency, but they are expensive and you would need quite a large one to provide the amperage you would need for motors. I agree selling your existing tools and getting new ones would be a better value, especially accounting for shipping.

The 50 or 60 HZ numbers for electric tools is not a figure set in stone because there are even fluctuations in a the powergrids themselves. The electronics in Festool's powertools will work just fine with a 10 Hz difference.

I am also not sure about what you say about computers. Maybe what you say is true for very old computers, can't comment on that because I wasn't around then, but I sincerely doubt modern equipment has that problem. Every piece of electronic equipment runs internally on voltages much lower than what the grid delivers, mostly 12 and 5 volts. For this every modern computer has it's own stabilised power unit that can take in a range of volts, amps and Hz, and then deliver the required stabilised DC voltage to the electronic parts. Stabilised means the output of the power supply is within extremely tight tolerances.

I have a some music equipment from America that I bought from a Dutch music producer who worked on shows like The Bold and the Beautiful, hooked up with step down transformers, and they all work just fine. A synthesizer module, mixer board and a tracker. All pretty complicated electronic stuff. A lot more complicated than any power tool.

 

[merlinmaster]

I am pretty sure your going to have trouble with that.  Most power tools are ok with the use of an transformer, but those are the ones that do not have the electronics in them.  The frequency of the power in the UK is 50Hz and in the US it is 60Hz.  This will mess with the electronics, very specifically, the speed control circuits.  a great example is in computers with older power units that can't do the 60Hz, the clocks run fast.  You can purchase an inverter that converts the AC to DC then back to AC again with the correct frequency, but they are expensive and you would need quite a large one to provide the amperage you would need for motors. I agree selling your existing tools and getting new ones would be a better value, especially accounting for shipping.

The 50 or 60 HZ numbers for electric tools is not a figure set in stone because there are even fluctuations in a the powergrids themselves. The electronics in Festool's powertools will work just fine with a 10 Hz difference.

I am also not sure about what you say about computers. Maybe what you say is true for very old computers, can't comment on that because I wasn't around then, but I sincerely doubt modern equipment has that problem. Every piece of electronic equipment runs internally on voltages much lower than what the grid delivers, mostly 12 and 5 volts. For this every modern computer has it's own stabilised power unit that can take in a range of volts, amps and Hz, and then deliver the required stabilised DC voltage to the electronic parts. Stabilised means the output of the power supply is within extremely tight tolerances.

I have a some music equipment from America that I bought from a Dutch music producer who worked on shows like The Bold and the Beautiful, hooked up with step down transformers, and they all work just fine. A synthesizer module, mixer board and a tracker. All pretty complicated electronic stuff. A lot more complicated than any power tool.

Alex,

We have found when we have flux in the grid we had problems with our Kapex not running correctly, the electronics can only take a small change before they act up (lots of testing with an oscilloscope).  and yes the computer reference was older ones that do not support the 60Hz as an exapmle.  but I have found when I travel between europe and the US which I do often, some of my equipment does not function correctly.  Your power supply on the board is probably marked with 50/60 Hz compatable as a lot of newer computer equipment is.  Other equipment however does not usually have the capacity.  If it says it is to run on 60 it means it.

 

[Alan m]

i can only take the last posts as fact as i dont know either way but it sounds like there are a lot of posabilities for ruining your tools.
welcome to the fog

i would sell the tools but keep the accesories etc and buy new ones in the us.
i would look into bringing a few NAINA tools with you thow.
maybe a cms or 4-5. im sure you would sell them when you get there
a few plug it cord female ones, etc would go down well with your new friends across the pond.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

EU Festools will work fine over here. My Kapex is an EU model and I have even modified one of my 120V CT-Mini's to trigger from the 240 Kapex. A standard adapter plug you find in the stores won't do you much good, especially the ones you find in EU (because they're most commonly for using 120V products on EU power). A straight adapter plug (without transformer) would have to convert a U.S. 240v NEMA 6-15 plug to your IEC plug.

If this is long-term, you would be better off replacing the plug with a NEMA 6-15 plug. These are readily available in most hardware stores and home centers here. You would need to make sure your shop has 240v outlets. If you need your tools to be portable, then you would need a 2:1 step-up transformer.

As for the computers, there has never been a computer that utilized line frequency for any of it's timing circuits. Line frequency is 50/60 Hz. The first commercial computers (6502 and 6800 processors) operated a 1MHz and they used a crystal oscillator for timing. Even the ENIAC in 1940's used a 100KHz internal clock. Yes, some alarm clocks used line frequency for timing, but I believe even that is rare these days.

 

[fisheye]

I've got no idea about the EU Festool compatibility with U.S. power, but do have an anecdote on OLD computers with 50/60 Hz issues.  Some of the CRTs used the power frequency to sync the video, and you could get very odd pictures by messing with the 50/60 setting.

 

[Kev]

You can tweak the power - that's a very common thing ... cost a little bit and will introduce a level of inconvenience.

Here's the list of things to consider to make certain you think it through (add to the laundry list anyone)

Negatives:  [sad]

Long term service - will a local service centre want to touch them:
General inconvenience
Parts availability for electronics (or extra shipping costs)
Warranty on recent purchases
Freight costs
Reduced local value (in the US for 240v)

Positives:  [cool]

Potential savings
Unique tools you may have, not available in the US

My personal thoughts - sell local, buy new. You get warranty, local support, no OS shipping, no transit risk.

All said - be selective ... all the small no powered parts, jigs, cutters, etc ... take them for certain.

Kev.

 

[greenMonster]

Sounds like a pain.
Factoring in the cost of shipping may take some of sting out of the loss of rebuilding your collection.

 

[Alan m]

i just got  a ro 90. on 3 places on the outside of the systainer it says not to be used in north america. not sure why but there must be some reason

 

[dyates]

Thanks for all the feedback.
I think I will try and sell most of the tools locally and then buy new ones in the US.
I'll post them in the classifieds nearer the time.

Thanks again for all the advice,
Daniel

 

[mouppe]

i just got  a ro 90. on 3 places on the outside of the systainer it says not to be used in north america. not sure why but there must be some reason

Clearly, they must have had some stickers left over from the Carvex systainers!

 

[woodguy7]

Oh, the Carvex thing again.  You guys not got it yet ? 

Seriously though, you don't want it !  Not Festools finest hour.  Mine has been repaired but back the way it was .

 

[CO_JCD]

Thanks for all the feedback.
I think I will try and sell most of the tools locally and then buy new ones in the US.
I'll post them in the classifieds nearer the time.

Thanks again for all the advice,
Daniel

Daniel,

If you are using these at your house (as opposed to traveling to work at different sites etc) you really don't need to sell anything.  The US system used a split phase system and it is easy to have 240v directly available.  I have written more on this subject in another thread so won't repeat in this one.

It is clearly up to you, however, I am speaking from experience having lived in the US for a period of five years and taken most tools / appliances etc with me and used 100% successfully.

If you need to use the tools at locations without directly wired 240v being available, I agree that selling makes most sense.

John

 

[Sam fitz]

Hi Daniel
I have just moved to Canada with all my tools lots of people told me to sell all my gear and buy new, homes in the US are the same as Canada 120v 60hz and 240v 60hz for air con, dryers, ovens. All I have done is installed several 240v outlets in my workshop. Basement. And kitchen my wife brought her coffee machine every thing has worked fine, all of my festool stuff is 110v 50hz which I plug straight in and is fine, the only problem could be if you want to use your power tools out on site, I even brought a 3 phase 415v pillar drill which I run through a inverter and that's also good

Hope that helps

Sam.

 

[FulThrotl]

I am pretty sure your going to have trouble with that.  Most power tools are ok with the use of an transformer, but those are the ones that do not have the electronics in them.  The frequency of the power in the UK is 50Hz and in the US it is 60Hz.  This will mess with the electronics, very specifically, the speed control circuits.  a great example is in computers with older power units that can't do the 60Hz, the clocks run fast.  You can purchase an inverter that converts the AC to DC then back to AC again with the correct frequency, but they are expensive and you would need quite a large one to provide the amperage you would need for motors. I agree selling your existing tools and getting new ones would be a better value, especially accounting for shipping.

The 50 or 60 HZ numbers for electric tools is not a figure set in stone because there are even fluctuations in a the powergrids themselves. The electronics in Festool's powertools will work just fine with a 10 Hz difference.

not really pertinent to the compatibility issue, but the 60 hz frequency of the
north america grid is pretty much set in stone... it doesn't vary much
at all, maybe a tenth of a HZ for a moment or two.

the reason is straightforward... all the power plants on the grid have
to have the sine waves synchronized before tying into the backbone.
once they are tied into the grid, if there is a phase shift caused by a
momentary frequency flutter on a generator, it will disconnect from the
grid instantly. failure to do so will cause a current flow of almost infinite
inrush, burning very expensive things up very quickly.

imagine the grid as a huge flywheel, hooked to several tens of millions of
horsepower worth of engines.... if one engine sputters, not a big deal...
if the engine goes to half throttle or dies completely, the flywheel effect of
the grid will try to spin it at the same speed as everything else.... if it can't,
it will blow it up trying, literally.

so, that speed doesn't vary much. it can't.

the reason that there is a difference between frequency, is that british
generators turn at 2500 rpm, and US generators turn at 3600 rpm.

 

[dyates]

[/quote]

Daniel,

If you are using these at your house (as opposed to traveling to work at different sites etc) you really don't need to sell anything.  The US system used a split phase system and it is easy to have 240v directly available.  I have written more on this subject in another thread so won't repeat in this one.

It is clearly up to you, however, I am speaking from experience having lived in the US for a period of five years and taken most tools / appliances etc with me and used 100% successfully.

If you need to use the tools at locations without directly wired 240v being available, I agree that selling makes most sense.

John
[/quote]

Hi John,
Thanks for your input- I'd be interested in reading your other thread on the topic- would you mind posting the link?

Have you had any experience with portable transformers? I'm not much of an electrician and I would likely need them on site at times.

Cheers,
Daniel

 

[PaulMarcel]

So the Carvex comment was priceless.  Now if someone can work in "Robertson Centrotec", we're golden.

I think the reason the RO-90 says "not for use in North America" is because the Plug-It socket on the 240V RO-90 has the same shape as our 110V Plug-It socket so you could easily plug it into a 110V cord over here.  Trying to run a 240V tool on 110V only works for JMB.  I say the socket is the same because I had some 240V Plug-It pigtails mailed to me (thanks fellow accomplices!) and they are the same format.  The UK 110V Plug-It sockets have an extra set of notches so our Plug-It cords couldn't fit in there without a couple minutes with an 1/8" chisel.

 

[CO_JCD]

Hi John,
Thanks for your input- I'd be interested in reading your other thread on the topic- would you mind posting the link?

Have you had any experience with portable transformers? I'm not much of an electrician and I would likely need them on site at times.

Cheers,
Daniel

Daniel,

This was the post I was referring to:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/voltage-and-frequency-of-german-appliances-ok-in-uk/msg128524/#msg128524

Other than frequency, the only thing to be mindful of is that the US split phase system has dual live connections with earth in the centre as opposed the UK system where neutral sits at or close to earth.  This is not an issue for double insulated tools such as most Festools.  A US house already has 240v sockets fitted ready for dryer, cooker hob, cooker etc.  You can make up a conversion lead between a US 240v plug and a UK trailing socket to accept the normal UK plugs, or simply have an additional 240v breaker added to the panel with a 240v socket wired in your garage etc.  Clearly there are saftey issues to consider and US code comes into play, therefore, if you are not experienced in electrical matters, I suggest getting a US local qualified electrician to run the 240v extension circuit and / or make up the conversion cable - just remember to take the necessary UK flying lead / socket with you as you will not be able to buy that in the US.

Re transformers - my only experience is regarding the step down ones to use US equipment in the UK and this was for items less than 300W.  Most tools are much more powerful than 300W so, if you would want to use a step-up transformer, it would have to be a large one.  Much better just to plug into a 240v socket where you can.

Hope this helps.

John

PS, also remember to take a UK kettle with you, the 110V US kettles are lower powered and only to be found in places such as 'Crate and Barrel' - take a 'proper' 240V kettle that will boil water quickly for your tea rather than make you wait twice as long!