Vac questions Cleantex, CT22, Mini

[fso]

Hi,

I'm considering replacing my starmix shop vacuum with a festool one. A lot of tool dealers in this region (belgium) seem to prefer the starmix because it has an automatic filter cleaning which makes it suitable for use with concrete and other heavy dust. As a hobby user who also does renovation work on his house it is a benefit to be able to use the vacuum also when cutting into concrete walls, sanding plaster, etc. For the rest I'm mainly processing MDF for which I find the dust extraction on my festool saw insufficient with my current vac. (BTW festool own documentation claims that working with wood, and I assume MDF especially requires a level M certified vacuum, at least in Europe)

So a first question is if the Festool holds up to occasional abuse with concrete, plaster dust.

The second question is related. The CT22 has the manual filter rake. Is this a useful feature to have? I had the impression that the new cleantex units no longer offer this functionality. Seems to me to have some value, but I don't know if people actually use it. If it is useful I may still get my hands on an overstock unit.

Finally I would be interested in some feedback of the European users regarding the new cleantex series and how they compare with the CT22.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Frank

 

[jvsteenb]

I own a CT22, and have no problems constantly abusing it with plasterdust or even concrete dust. In fact, I don't mind abusing my Festools at all.
I don't believe the use of MDF would require an "M" class vacuum, but I might be wrong there. Actually I think the Festool CTL's are underrated, for the construction is generally the same, it's just that the flow-indicator has been spared, thus making it possible to market this vacuum in a different pricerange.
I think the manual filter cleaning gizmo/thingy is quite useful, but an automatic one would be better. I have no experience with the new cleantex units, but it may be that the filter rake functionality has been replaced with the "self-cleaning" functionality of the new bags. If that is the case, I don't know if it's a good thing.

I have experience using some Starmix vacuums, and I think they're on par with my CT22, perhaps even ever-so-slightly better in the vacuum department. I don't know wich Starmix vacuum you own so my comparison may be totally useless.
The solid integration with "the system" however meant way more to me so I haven't regretted the purchase of the CT22 for a second. In hindsight I think it may be my most effective Festool purchase ever. 

Regards,

Job

 

[Brice Burrell]

I'm from the States so I can't comment on the Starmix but I'll add my thoughts on the CT22 raker function. Simply put, I don't like it. Here's why, the agitation can, over time, wear the HEPA filters. Second, the dislodged dust is sucked right back up into the filters as soon as you turn the vac on again. Not the best designed feature in my opinion so I'm not surprised it is no longer included on the new model vacs.

 

[woodguy7]

I have the Cleantex 26 & think it is a great vacuum.  I use it a lot on m.d.f & it works great.  Cant compare it with the 22, sorry.  One thing about the Cleantex 26, it is much bigger than i thought it would be I quite heavy when the bag is full.

Overall, really pleased with it, just wish the longlife bags wernt so darn expensive  [unsure]

Woodguy

 

[fso]

I own a CT22, and have no problems constantly abusing it with plasterdust or even concrete dust. In fact, I don't mind abusing my Festools at all.
I don't believe the use of MDF would require an "M" class vacuum, but I might be wrong there. Actually I think the Festool CTL's are underrated, for the construction is generally the same, it's just that the flow-indicator has been spared, thus making it possible to market this vacuum in a different pricerange.
I think the manual filter cleaning gizmo/thingy is quite useful, but an automatic one would be better. I have no experience with the new cleantex units, but it may be that the filter rake functionality has been replaced with the "self-cleaning" functionality of the new bags. If that is the case, I don't know if it's a good thing.

I have experience using some Starmix vacuums, and I think they're on par with my CT22, perhaps even ever-so-slightly better in the vacuum department. I don't know wich Starmix vacuum you own so my comparison may be totally useless.
The solid integration with "the system" however meant way more to me so I haven't regretted the purchase of the CT22 for a second. In hindsight I think it may be my most effective Festool purchase ever. 

Regards,

Job

Hello Job,

Thanks for your input. If you read the suitability information on the German festool site it states that wood dust requires a class M vac. This is german regulation. Basically I think that the vacs are the same (if using the filters), but for a class M the flow sensor with an acoustic alarm is mandatory. For me the alarm is not that important, but the filters are. The hepa filters for the CT22 should be great and I think for the Cleantex 26 it should be available as well. The mini would not meet the requirements though. For me that is an issue since MDF dust gives actually bothers me. It also cloggs the filter on my starmix which does not use a dust bag. (their dust bag for my type is not great and I think that the overall concept of the festool is much better, such as managing the hose, cords, etc).

Frank

 

[fso]

I'm from the States so I can't comment on the Starmix but I'll add my thoughts on the CT22 raker function. Simply put, I don't like it. Here's why, the agitation can, over time, wear the HEPA filters. Second, the dislodged dust is sucked right back up into the filters as soon as you turn the vac on again. Not the best designed feature in my opinion so I'm not surprised it is no longer included on the new model vacs.

Thanks Brice that's a valid point. The filter agitation is typically used on a vac without a dust bag using a cyclone type system, makes more sense in those designs. I find out working with MDF that not using a dust bag is a really bad idea. The filters clog and cleaning sort of defeats the use of the vac in the first place.

Regards,

Frank

 

[justinmcf]

hi frank.

i see from your profile that you are located in belgium.
have you considered the protool vacs.
i am looking at the protool vcp-450 for concrete and fibre cement dust.

regards, justin.

 

[score0matic]

The ProTool is just a rebadged Nilfisk Attix 12  Replaced by the Attix 30/50 series.
I love my Attix 30 
here is the thread including my first impressions
http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/new-king-of-the-vacuum-hill-the-nilfisk-attix-30/

Craig

 

[fso]

The ProTool is just a rebadged Nilfisk Attix 12   Replaced by the Attix 30/50 series.
I love my Attix 30 
here is the thread including my first impressions
http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/new-king-of-the-vacuum-hill-the-nilfisk-attix-30/

Craig

Nice vac, just watched the video review. I really like the noise level spec, but it does not address two issues I have with my vac, which is proper on board storage for the hose and accessories. Nor does it seem to have a power adjustment which I need for my sander. On the plus side it may be easier to get one at a decent discount.

I learned something new from your review to look into a bit more which is specifications for the filter bag as well as consumable cost.

Thanks for the input.

Frank

 

[justinmcf]

hi frank, just to clarify.

the protool vacs have the same power adjustment as the festools, so it would be perfect for your sander.
the lack of storage on top is an issue, but not a deal breaker for me.

regards, justin.

 

[Frank-Jan]

Last week I bought a ctl26 vac; I allready had a ct22, a spit ac1600 (which is built by starmix) and a hitachi WDE1200.
I haven't been able to compare the old CT and the new one side by side yet, (the CT22 was at a different job), and I only used it briefly sofar, so I can only give a first impression.

Aside from not having the filter- rake lever, which seems to me like a more or less useless function, for the reason Brice already mentioned; it also doesn't have the blower function, but I haven't used that on my CT22  in the +6 years I used it sofar.

First impressions of the CTL26: it's a bit easier to carry; the installation of the bags is easier; Allthough the specifications say it's more powerfull, I haven't really noticed a difference, but it does appear to make a slightly higher pitched noise.
A box of 5 replacement bags does take up a lot less room than such a box for the CT22, because the selfclean bags are made of a cloth-like material that's folded smaller.

The CT22 has two rubber "antenna's" with metal contacts at the end sticking into the compartment where the bag is installed (Their function is to shut of the vac when sucking up water) but sometimes they puncture the bags if you open en close the vac regularly to check how full the bag is; if that happens you'll have to clean the filters. I have also used the "vlies" bags for my CT, those won't be damaged by the antenna's, or sharp objects that get sucked into the vac, but they are more expensive than the paper bags (2 euro extra/bag) ; while the bags for the ctl26 cost the same as the paper bags for the ct22.

I bought the spit vacuum to be used for grinding concrete and brick, because I noticed that the vacs with bags would lose suctionpower when the bags were only partially filled. (I learned later that this happens because the "pores" of the filterbags get blocked by the fine dust); With the automatic filtercleaning, the filters get "shaken" by an electomagnetic pulse; and the fine, but heavy dust falls down.
Woodshavings and regular dust won't fall down by the shaking, but cling to the filters; so if you want to use such a vacuum for sawing mdf for instance, you should use a bag. (I don't know if you do this already).

Both the spit and the hitachi vacs can also be used with the festool hoses. The CT vacs have an advantage over vacs with a central round filter, which is that, when used with a dustbag, the entirel volume of the vac's dustcompartment can be used.
The starmix vacs also have the flat, cartridge-type filters,  but in this case they are installed vertically,and because they're  located along the sides of the motor,they also won't take up room where the dustbag is located.

I do prefer using the CT with the saws and routers, but just because it's a bit fussy to clean out the spit to install the bag , the sound of the ct is also less annoying than that of the spit, and it's more powerfull than the hitachi (which is, according to the specifications, about as powerful as the ct mini)

As a sidenote: starmix also makes vacs for other manufacturers that use systainers for storage (mafell and metabo), maybe the latching-system they use to attach the systainers on top of their vacs is available as an accessory.

In hindsight I should have went with a protool or nilfisk vac for the automatic filtercleaning, because those clean the filter when the tool is working, the starmix only does it when the tool is turned off; but it does have a feature that shuts of the vac when the filter is too clogged... which doesn't shut down the powersocket for the tool. So I have to remember to pause regularly so the filters get cleaned in time, or else the room will fill up with dust in no time in spite of using a vac.

In your case, if you aren't using the bags when sawing mdf, I would first try it with the bags and see it the dustcollection becomes satifactory. (the selection dial for the automatic filtercleaning has 4 positions, if you use the vac with a bag in it, you should put it in the position where the filtercleaning is turned off, but the vac itself still turns on and off with the tool; this way you won't have to put up with the noise of the filtercleaning everytime you shut off your tool)

 

[fso]

Last week I bought a ctl26 vac; I allready had a ct22, a spit ac1600 (which is built by starmix) and a hitachi WDE1200.
I haven't been able to compare the old CT and the new one side by side yet, (the CT22 was at a different job), and I only used it briefly sofar, so I can only give a first impression.

Thanks Frank-jan, nice extensive set of information I was looking for. I just missed out on a used Attix XC with the automatic filter cleaning. The protool 260 or Attix 21 PC is my second choice but considerably cheaper than the XC version or Festool vacs. I really like the festools, but the Nilfisk Alto is attractive for a number of reasons. Mainly low sound level, probably better suction in the XC versions and more versatile for general renovation work besides working with wood. Also filters and bags are much cheaper than Festool, which is a bit overpriced in my view.

My starmix does not have the filter cleaning (simple model) and I'll try with dust bags. Biggest issue is that it is to powerful when sanding, which is a shame since I can't create dust in my mini workshop.

 

[Corwin]

...
My starmix does not have the filter cleaning (simple model) and I'll try with dust bags. Biggest issue is that it is to powerful when sanding, which is a shame since I can't create dust in my mini workshop.

I'm not at all familiar with the Starmix vacs, but if yours is too powerful for sanding operations you might put a Y adaptor inline and rig up a bleeder valve on one side to reduce the suction at the sander.  There are several options for a bleeder valve -- the simplest may be to just duct tape over the opening and peel back some of the tape to relieve some of the suction.