vac+sanders advices needed for small shop

[jzaavy]

Hi guys,
This is my first post here and Ive been reading since a couple of months. My head is about to explode, so I figured maybe you guys could help me to settle on something and just buy new tools.  [laughing]

I am looking for a vacuum and a new sander, and an "upgrade path" since I am pretty sure a sanders combo would be better.

My plan A was ct22 + accessories + ro150 + accessories, and then a rs2 when I have spare money.

Now I dont know anymore. Maybe an ets150 would be better, plus some other sander...

My background is:
1 man high end furniture shop and will probably need to hire soon.

I do mostly "square" furniture ( I guess contemporary Italian style), so a lot of veneered panels and mdf.

I dont have any good aggressive sander. When I happen to need fast stock removal, its a pain.

I am really concerned about sanding through and not perfectly controlling the sander.

I am willing to invest in quality tooling, but right now I need "primary" tools that I will use daily.

Hopefully someone will have some kind of advice to finally relieve me.

Thanks a lot.

Jerome

 

[Mac]

Welcome to the FOG Jerome!  [smile]

there are many, many extremely experienced and knowledgeable folk on here in a position to offer serious advice to you...no doubt they'll be along shortly! In the meantime, for what it's worth I use the ETS 150/3 alongside a midi vacuum and find it to be fantastic; totally controllable and responsive, delicate when required and also able to remove reasonable amounts of stock when needed. I've not managed to sand through any veneer yet (a great fear I've had) which I'm not sure I'd be able to say if I'd gone for the nasty bad tempered brute that is the Rotex 150.

Hope you get the advice you're after.
Cheers,
Rick

 

[Kevin Stricker]

Maybe a question to ask yourself is if you are looking for a sander with polishing capabilities.  If you usually take your stock to 220 and call it good I think you will find the ETS150/3 to be a better "daily driver" as it is more balanced and easier to use.  If you want a sander that can take your pieces to 2000+ for a mirror shine then the Rotex is amazing. 

You could buy an ETS 150/3 and an PC Armadillo sander for less than the Rotex.  The Armadillo is not as good at fast stock removal but is a reasonably priced and easily controlled belt sander that has great dust extraction.  It's a great addition to the install kit for fine tuning scribe lines.

IMO the Rotex is a better solid wood and refinishing sander than a cabinet finish sander.  Of course once you start sanding with Festool you will not be able to only have one...they are that good.

 

[Bob Marino]

Jerome,

I am sure you will be getting tons of good advice here shortly, but don't let Festool's large array of sanders confuse you.
Amongst the sanders, even into "subgroups (ros, orbital, dual mode, linear, etc.) there's a whole lot of overlapping. and more often than not, with a bit of research, it's hard to make a wrong decision. Check out Jerry Work's article on Festool sanders.
You say you need an aggressive sander, ok that tells me Rotex. You also will be doing MDF and veneer sanding, ok that tells me Rotex too, BUT the ETS 150/3 may better suit that bill (as well as one of Festool's "hidden gems" - the RS 2).
I would opt for the Rotex (my preference RO150) first (either the 150 or 125 - doing a search on RO 150 VS RO 125 may very well make your head explode though ). It can handle most any sanding application you will encounter (not corners) and do it well. It also has the largest array of accessories and consumables available.
Once you use that as your "workhorse" sander, then see what other applications the RO isn't the best at and check out  the other  sanders. It's rare that even a sander as versatile as the Rotex can best suit all your shop applications.
The 22 would be my first choice as your dust extractor - decent capacity and greater suction.

  Bob

 

[jzaavy]

wow! you guys are awesome! I could not have expected quicker replies!

mac:
Your kinda confirming my fears... [unsure]

Kevin:
I dont usually sand above 150-180. I am not really shopping for an dedicated aggressive sander. I have a bosch 3x21 but I hate it. (I guess I should write down some kind of review). When I need fast stock removal, i usually grab my crappy 5" ROS.  [eek]
And your right, I dont do much solid wood.

Bob:
do you agree with kevin's "Rotex is a better solid wood and refinishing sander than a cabinet finish sander"? I think my ratio is near 90% veneer+mdf and 10% aggressive sanding. The problem is that 10% is a pain and it would be nice to have the polishing feature (but I dont do any right now).

thanks!

Jerome

 

[tbellemare]

Jerome:

I'm not Bob but I've said it here before and I'll say it again...

If I could have only 3 sanders and had to use them to do everything (cabinets, furniture, carpentry, painting, etc.), I'd pick the:
RO 150
DX 93
LS130

With those sanders, you can do everything I can think of. I have them all and those are my go-to sanders.

To answer your question, in RO mode, the Rotex is quite tame.

Tom

 

[jzaavy]

Hi tom,
if you had to choose only one for my use (as described above), which one would it be?

Adding a couple of variables here:

Im in montreal, canada.

My budget is roughly the amount needed to buy a ct22, a ro150 and accessories, but only once...

But then, I am still struggling to pay for my two "belles autrichiennes"  :-* (sorry, it sounds way better in french)

Jerome

 

[mwhafner]

I think you are right on target in your original thinking.  The RO150 and the R2 should be a great combination for the work you described.  The Rotex can perform admirably for more delicate tasks, but it takes a little getting used to.  I would suggest that you get the soft and hard pads.  The ETS150/x is more ergonomic, but Rotex can get the same results.  

I think Bob's suggestion regarding the CT22 is a good one.  It includes the HEPA filters, and is not too bulky if you need to go mobile.  The Midi has plenty of power for sanding (and most other tasks), but the 22 is worth the price difference.  I use the CT22 in the shop and the Midi in the field.

 

[Bob Marino]

Bob:
do you agree with kevin's "Rotex is a better solid wood and refinishing sander than a cabinet finish sander"? I think my ratio is near 90% veneer+mdf and 10% aggressive sanding. The problem is that 10% is a pain and it would be nice to have the polishing feature (but I dont do any right now).

thanks!

Jerome

The Rotex, in ro mode will certainly work perfectly well with veneer. Would it be my first choice for strictly veneer work? No, that would be the ETS 150/3, BUT you have say you need an aggressive sander and the RO won't dissapoint you and can go from aggressive to fine - as well as being a superb polisher, but I think a shop needs more than one sander. Tom's recommendations are one place to start, another would be the  RO 150, DTS 400, RS E2, other combos can be just as valid, BUT you need to use what's right for you; your hands, your sanding style, etc. Start with the Rotex, see how that meets your expectations, see where it doesn't and then  buy your next sander.

Bob

 

[Brice Burrell]

While I'd prefer the ETS150 for sanding veneered MDF you may be better off trying the RO150 for the 30 days no questions asked return policy. However, I'd strongly recommend going to a Festool dealer and trying all the sanders out first before you buy.

 

[tbellemare]

Bonjour, Jerome!

I'm in agreement with Bob. I think the RO 150 is the best and most versatile sander on the planet. It is, however round, which may not matter to you. It can take a rough hewn object and bring to a smooth, polished finish pretty quickly. I say object because I've used it for rough wood and stone.

I also agree with Bob and Matt - the CT 22 is a great choice unless you're climbing into attics or 700-year old Dutch houses a lot.

It sounds like you already have it figured out.

I also agree with Brice, go try them.

Tom

 

[jzaavy]

OK, I think that I am considering either a ro150 or an ets150.

All of you suggested an ets150/3. Would it not be a better choice to get first an /5 and then a finer sander??

I will go to my local dealer, but I dont expect them to have a lot of knowledge about festool yet (new dealer).

What accessories do you guys suggest? I tried to read everything I could find. Heres my list (can$):

-->CT22E (700$) +
---->compact cleaning set (103$)
---->CT hose garage (65$)
---->Filter bags 5 pieces (43$)
---->handle (103$)
---->suction hose holder (46$)
---->Universal brush (20$) (thanks Bob! very good idea)

-->RO150 FEQ (681$) (or ets150 (400$))
---->hard pad?(50$) I dont know the hardness of the pad included in the package
---->rubin p80 (33$)
---->rubin p120 (32$)
---->rubin p180 (32$)

Do you guys think theres anything important missing? I dont consider right know the boom arm. Maybe I should not buy the handle right away.

Jerome

 

[Bob Marino]

OK, I think that I am considering either a ro150 or an ets150.

All of you suggested an ets150/3. Would it not be a better choice to get first an /5 and then a finer sander??

I will go to my local dealer, but I dont expect them to have a lot of knowledge about festool yet (new dealer).

What accessories do you guys suggest? I tried to read everything I could find. Heres my list:

-->CT22E (700$) +
---->compact cleaning set (103$)
---->CT hose garage (65$)
---->Filter bags 5 pieces (43$)
---->handle (103$)
---->suction hose holder (46$)

-->RO150 FEQ (681$) (or ets150 (400$))
---->hard pad?(50$) I dont know the hardness of the pad included in the package
---->rubin p80 (33$)
---->rubin p120 (32$)
---->rubin p180 (32$)

Do you guys think theres anything important missing? I dont consider right know the boom arm. Maybe I should not buy the handle right away.

Jerome

Jerome,

All the accesories you list are good options, you may want to add one of Festool's "suction''or "universal" brushes" to your list - very helpful in cleanup.
Also, if you get the 150/5 there isn't enough difference to warrant getting the 150/3.

  Bob

 

[jzaavy]

Jerome,

All the accesories you list are good options, you may want to add one of Festool's "suction''or "universal" brushes" to your list - very helpful in cleanup.
Also, if you get the 150/5 there isn't enough difference to warrant getting the 150/3.

  Bob

Well, I was thinking maybe an ets150/5, then later add a lighter sander, like a rs2 or one of tom's preferred ones

Ill check those brushes.

Thanks!

Jerome

 

[Bob Marino]

Well, I was thinking maybe an ets150/5, then later add a lighter sander, like a rs2 or one of tom's preferred ones

Ill check those brushes.

Thanks!

Jerome
[/quote]

That will work, but get a feel for the 150 and see how well it meets your needs; you may prefer another sander to the RS E2.

  Bob

 

[tbellemare]

Jerome:

I would consider holding off on the handle. You can get the handle, boom arm, and boom arm tool holder all in a kit. It started out as a promotional set, where buying them together, you get the tool holder free. It has since been made a permanent SKU by Festool. I suspect that, down the road, you will want a boom arm. The hose holder you've chosen is a good economic alternative for now.

Tom

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

My first and so far only Festool sander was a 150/5 and it does a great overall job.  My shop is in the basement so dust was an issue but it is not now as virtually nothing escapes the 150's colection and I am still using it with a cheap sears vac with gortex filter...  Extracter CT33 and a dust deputy and I will have it made....but those are still to come...

As a second Festool sander I have actually though of gong smaller with the 400 which looks to be about a 1/6th of a sheet sander. This I would use on narrow door and frame edges where the 150 sometimes gets a little tipsy..

Best,
Todd

 

[Frank Pellow]

Welcome to the FOG Jerome!  [smile]

there are many, many extremely experienced and knowledgeable folk on here in a position to offer serious advice to you...no doubt they'll be along shortly! In the meantime, for what it's worth I use the ETS 150/3 alongside a midi vacuum and find it to be fantastic; totally controllable and responsive, delicate when required and also able to remove reasonable amounts of stock when needed. I've not managed to sand through any veneer yet (a great fear I've had) which I'm not sure I'd be able to say if I'd gone for the nasty bad tempered brute that is the Rotex 150.

Hope you get the advice you're after.
Cheers,
Rick

Here we go again.  The debate over whether or not the Rotex 150 can do fine work is one that I have engaged in many times.  My experience has been that in 'fine sanding' mode it does just that and that the sander is very controllable.  I can even use it one handed and I have small hands.

Just this morning, I used them Rotew 150, mostly one handed, in order to sand and polish all the parts for a small music box in stages from 120 grit all the way down to 4000 grit.

And the advantage, of course, is that the sander can also be used to remove a lot of material in a hurry when that is what you need to do.

 

[Frank Pellow]

Jerome:

I'm not Bob but I've said it here before and I'll say it again...

If I could have only 3 sanders and had to use them to do everything (cabinets, furniture, carpentry, painting, etc.), I'd pick the:
RO 150
DX 93
LS130

With those sanders, you can do everything I can think of. I have them all and those are my go-to sanders.

To answer your question, in RO mode, the Rotex is quite tame.

Tom

I agree with Tom.  I have three Festool sanders and they are the ones recommneded by Tom.

And I see that, like me, he contends that the Rotex 150 is `quite tame`in RO mode.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Good advice above.  You really can't go wrong with a Festool sander.  I have both the Rotex and the ETS 150 and my personal preference is the ETS, but that's just me.  I agree the Rotex can be mellow in RO mode, but it does take some getting used to.  And beyond a doubt, it can hog out material in no time in aggressive mode.  The advice on going to a dealer and taking a test drive is the best of all.

BTW, whichever sander you go with, buy the sander and CT22 as a "package", you will save a few bucks.

When I am building furniture, the CT22 pretty much stays in the same place most of the time, and the handle would be useless except to hold the boom arm (which is great!).  Good idea to defer that for a while.  Also a good idea to try small quantities of the paper first, you might use a different sanding schedule with Festool and the paper lasts a long time compared to other brands.

Hope you will post some pics of the furniture you build!