Value of the LR 32 vs more affordable Jigs

[Steven Owen]

The LR 32 system looks well thought out and well designed.  The videos clearly demonstrate how the system can be used to create pins and euro hinge installs quickly with a router.

The LR 32

Veritas, Rockler, Woodpeckers, Kreg and numerous other specialty tool companies produce a lot of alternatives.  The Kreg and Rockler are passable.  The Woodpeckers and Veritas are precision machines to high tolerances to be extremely accurate.  Rockler has a very solid Euro hinge jig.  All of these jigs seem capable of producing similar results to the LR 32. 

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=32251&cat=1,180,42311

By the time you buy an LR 32 Kit, OF 1400 and a LR 32 rail, you’re looking at $1700 dollars Canadian or $1450 USD for the router and the LR 32 kit/rail.

For 3 times the price of every other solution, what do you get with an LR 32 over buying a Veritas Shelf pin jig and a Rockler Euro Hinge Jig?  What do you features do you feel justify spending an extra $1200 dollars to buy into the LR 32 system?

 

[Svar]

I like this approach:


Not necessarily specific execution, but the principle. This is how Mafell template operates with their Duo Doweler.
Guido Henn showed the same technique, but he used template with deep cutouts and simple guide bushing instead of sub-base.


1. Minimum parts and setup time.
2. The tool is not attached to anything, unless you use the sub-base.
3. You don't take hands off the tool.
4. You don't lift the tool.
5. You can use any router.
6. Template does not wear out (unlike Kreg etc. jigs)
7. Costs next to nothing.
8. Easy to make.

 

[lwoirhaye]

If you don't need the back row to be perfectly parallel to the front row at 32mm increments, a lot of jigs can work fine.  Cutting the holes with a plunge router is faster by far than a drill.

Useful overview here: http://benchmark.20m.com/tools/Festool/32mm/festool_32mmholes.html

The only router jigs I have seen that look like they really have it figured out are the "Schmitt32" and one not sold anymore called a Kurka jig.  Both allow parallel holes on 32mm centers without measuring.

I have the Maffel.  It drills individual rows very quickly but spacing rows on 32mm increments for drawer slides is not something it is designed to be friendly to at all.

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

I just bought the LR32 Plate.  It’s available as a separate item. I already owned the 1400, 1100 and a holy rail.  So it wasn’t that big of an investment.

 

[Master Carpenter]

I started with the veritas. Still have it and it's come in handy a few times to put a couple holes in assembled cabinets. If you only plan to do a few cabinets a year. I'd say get it. Next step up is the festool, I use the 1010 router with mine to save some money on routers, I already have enough mid sized routers that getting a 1400 wasn't desired. If you want to spend more money or your doing cabinets professionally, get a multispindle line boring machine. If you though festool was expensive...

I think it comes down to volume of cabinets your doing. I'd go with lr32 for 5 to 50 cabinets a year.

And I don't find the lr32 particularly fast. As with all festool, the pointer on the setup bars isint very precise and the pin on my plate is tight, I often have to manually lift it to move to the next hole in the rail.

 

[grbmds]

While in two different Festool classes we used the jig. It's a great jig and I see the value if you are a cabinet maker. However, for the woodworker who doesn't make a living at cabinet making, I have looked for other jigs to do the same things. For the few times I have a use for it, almost any other jig would work.

 

[jeh]

I ran through numerous different products starting at sub-$20 to the LR-32 and finally the Mafell Duo Doweler. For those that don't know it's primary use is for joining, but with the template guide it makes shelf pin holes quickly and efficiently with very little chance for failure. The plus is it does (2) holes at once. I like the homemade jigs in the first post especially the first one though getting the holes exactly lined up will takes some effort. If someone were to go this route I would fine someone with an LR32 or Duo Doweler or a line boring setup to create the template. I'm not sold not the 2nd one as the chance of the router moving or of not having the template guide tight up against the jig could lead to problems.

When I had the LR-32 I used it with the OF1010. I think the 1400 would be awkward to slide due to the weight difference. I'll add that if you do not use the LR-32 regularly always make a practice run on a scrap.

 

[Ptk16]

I use the lr32 setup with the 1400...and I find it super fast, really easy to set up and incredibly accurate. I hesitated because of the cost, but do not regret it at all.

 

[Steven Owen]

It would have been nice to see an expanded ecosystem for other tools with the LR 32.  They could have added a something for precision layout of dowels and dominos as part of the system.

Between the Veritas and the LR 32.  The real advantage would be speed and dust collection.  The Veritas should be every as accurate as the LR-32.  Veritas obsesses about precision in every tool they make.

The slower speed of drilling and lack of a dust collection solution would separate the Veritas from the LR-32.  I would think you would need to stop and brush off the bit on the drill for every 8-9 holes you drill to clear the bit.

 

[Svar]

I like the homemade jigs in the first post especially the first one though getting the holes exactly lined up will takes some effort. If someone were to go this route I would fine someone with an LR32 or Duo Doweler or a line boring setup to create the template.

I did similar template on a router table, the way you do finger joints. Perfect repeatability of spacing, but getting it 32 mm takes some tweaking.
You can also buy a melamine panel with 32 mm holes in store and use as a template.

 

[Holmz]

I use the lr32 setup with the 1400...and I find it super fast, really easy to set up and incredibly accurate. I hesitated because of the cost, but do not regret it at all.

I have the Bosch variant with their holy rail. I would not call it fast... Fiddly or something, but not fast nor super fast.

If I was really doing lots of 32-mm holes I would look hard at the duo doweler, but others may not.

 

[Cochese]

I tried to cheap out with the Woodpecker, but ultimately I decided I'd rather spend several hundred more to do it with the LR32 system. I absolutely love it, even though it does challenge my math skills sometimes.

I'd expand on this further, but I just took a happy little pill for my unhappy big headache and I'm ready for some shuteye.

 

[J0hn]

The LR 32 is one of the Festools that I really regret buying (another one is the parallel guides for the Tracksaw, but those were returned)

I also have the Veritas jig, and feel it was well worth the money

If you are building cabinets using the 32mm system, LR 32 would probably work out.  I ran into problems trying to drill shelf pin holes because the length of the boards did not conform to the 32mm system and I had problems when trying to drill the second set of holes (I don't remember all the details now since it has been a while and I haven't tried to do it again)

The Veritas jig makes it very simple.  For now, I have dedicated a Dewalt Trim Router to the LR32 plate and I use that when I need a light duty track router

If your looking for a good jig to install euro hinges, I have the Hettich and I am very pleased with it ($220) or look at the Blum ($300)
https://www.woodstocksupply.com/hinge-drilling-jig-47303-hettich.html
https://www.amazon.com/Blum-M31-100...&ie=UTF8&qid=1421568965&sr=1-9&keywords=hinge+boring+jig

Someday I will own the Duo Doweler  (I have no interest at all in the Domino)

 

[lwoirhaye]

Construction boring for dowels, Confirmats or other RTA methods is a whole other issue, but for drilling Euro style base cabinets with a combination of drawers and doors, this is the most sensible setup I have seen short of a 46 spindle double line bore.  I have a construction boring machine and it is less versatile than I thought it would be, though it can be set up for a great many tasks in a set-it and forget-it sense for a large shop.  I have left it set up for Confirmat boring because it is not worth the switchover time to do line boring with it and it does not without considerable setup time overcome the issues inherent to single row line boring machines, specifically that any time you flip the panel around you take a risk that it is not dead-nuts accurate in width and squareness.  Both the system in the video and a 46 spindle machine use the bottom front corner of both left and right side panels as the reference corner. When you work with a system that has to move the reference corner around sizing errors are  compounded.  For shelves and hinges these errors may not be a factor but for drawer slides they are.

 

[Timtool]

The LR32 is great and well designed, especially if you are into the system. I bought the OF1010 and LR before having a track saw so I bought the LR rail, and a second one when I got my saw (paid the difference to get an LR with the saw)

But it still is a jig, I have it because I rarely need it and it was the only thing available at the time. But a professional who needs this often should really invest in a stationary row/hinge boring machine. A hobby user would probably be better off with a cheaper alternative now that they exist.
What still sells the LR to me is that with two coupled rails I can do any project size in one go.

 

[sancho57]

I own and use the LR 32 system ad ave for a while. IMO if you are doing onesies or twosies then there are other jigs that might work for you. If you are doing a lot of shelf hole drilling then the LR 32 is pretty darned good.

The deal is if your doing one or two it takes almost as time to set up as it does to drill the holes.

 

[peter halle]

Before I got my first Festool I used a Rockler template guide.  One of the clear plastic ones that used a drill bit.  I still have it hanging somewhere.  I don't know why I still have it.

Then I progressed to a Woodpeckers one that used a guide bushing and a router.  I already had the 1400 and had used the LR-32 in training classes.  I ended up buying the 5 mm Festool router bit and used it to do some projects.  The results were better than the old Rockler one.



Then I had the need to do some cabinets for a garage project.  I decided to go the LR-32 route.  It offered far more variability than the others I owned, it was based on stuff that I already owned, and it worked.

Yes there is a learning curve.  And because I don't use it that often I have to refresh my memory prior to using it again.  But once I do it does what I need it to do.  And could do more.  And it is portable and stores in a Systainer until the next time.

No regrets from me.

Peter

 

[Cheese]

I purchased and still use the Woodpecker Shelf Pin Template Guide. I think I paid only $50-$60 for it at the time. Pretty inexpensive if you're not doing cabinets for a living. On average maybe I build 1 cabinet per year. This year is an exception as I'll be constructing 4 of them.

The Woodpecker item is accurate and the locating pins are a nice snug fit. I use a cordless drill with standard brad point bits and the optional Woodpecker drill guide. It's slow but I'm very satisfied with the results. 

Having said all that, I purchased the Woodpecker Guide before I owned a 1400 & 1010 Festool router and a holey rail. Maybe now is the time to pick up the LR 32 Set with 8 ea 48" panels that will need to be drilled?

I'm very impressed with the ease of use and the speed of the Schmitt 32 setup.  [thumbs up]

Interesting, just Googled the Schmitt 32 System and they're fabricated in Wisconsin. They cost either $379 or $489 depending upon the model. Unfortunately the systems only work with 3 routers; A Dewalt, a Sears and a Master Force. [eek] [eek]
http://schmitt32.com/shop-2/

 

[Sparktrician]

The thing about the LR 32 for me is the repeatability, especially when used with the parallel guides.  Once I set up for a particular set of drawer glides, it goes quickly.  The setup does take time, but once set up, it's quick to use.  Once I figure out my system and mark all pieces as to top/bottom/front/back/inside/outside with painter's tape, I can lay out lines on which to set up the LR 32.  On the other hand, all line-boring must be done before assembly.  Once a cabinet is assembled, forget using the LR 32. 

 

[Steven Owen]

The thing about the LR 32 for me is the repeatability, especially when used with the parallel guides.  Once I set up for a particular set of drawer glides, it goes quickly.  The setup does take time, but once set up, it's quick to use.  Once I figure out my system and mark all pieces as to top/bottom/front/back/inside/outside with painter's tape, I can lay out lines on which to set up the LR 32.  On the other hand, all line-boring must be done before assembly.  Once a cabinet is assembled, forget using the LR 32.

I’m not opposed to spending the money on the LR 32.  The Kreg stuff is a waste of money.  It wears out after your third or fourth project. 

I plan to get the OF 1400 as my freehand router.  The LR 32 is about double the price of the Lee Valley Veritas rig with it’s full set-up.  And 30% more if you factor in the cost of buying a hinge boring jig.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=42200&cat=3,61998&ap=1