Vecturo 18V in stores now!

[pingvinlakrits]

Went to the local pusher's nest to pick me up some stale biscuits and to my surprise they had the new Vecturo in!

I got there five minutes prior to closing and we only had a brief talk about it. I did have one on pre order from them and they said they just got them in!

We mounted a battery and fired one up. I was honestly not super impressed with the girth of the machine and the vibration level. Also the green locking lever for the mount is made of plastic and really feels like it will break off with time  [eek] which was something the sales rep admitted it was the first thing he noticed.

The accessories look nice though.   For drywall cut outs the vac attachment seems great.
We did not have time to test or verify but according to the sales rep the accessories "should" fit the previous Vecturo too. 

As it stands I honestly think my Hitachi multicutter feels better in hand and so does my Bosch too. Both with even lesser vibration compared to the Vecturo. I could compare with the 18V Bosch multicutter in store and it was smoother in action.

I ended up leaving without the Vecturo 18V. Reasons are simple, I have one corded Supercut and two great cordless multicutters and a HUGE stack of Supercut blades that will not be compatible with the new Starlock. Also the feel of the Vecturo was not to my liking.

I am sure the folks who buy into it with the accessories will enjoy the machine but the ergonomics were not convincing for me.

If I didn't have any other multicutter I might have been more inclined to bite into the full kit but for now it is a pass.

 

[threesixright]

Interesting. I do think if you already own some FT batteries, this might be the one. Then you can go for the basic version.

Nevertheless. Does the supercut also have a plastic lever? [emoji848]

Sent from my X using Tapatalk

 

[tallgrass]

No the supercut does not have a plastic handle. At least mine does not.

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

In a very much tongue in cheek way, in another thread I mentioned my concern at the amount of plastic parts now used in a power tool, in place of metal. The thing is, as other posters in that thread pointed out, it’s because of progress and technology, and no doubt possibly even cost?

So we accept that the “plastic fantastic” application is good for the most part, especially weight saving. However, I think there are times when only metal, or something of equal strength and durability is needed. Like the Vecturo locking lever for example.
Not sure about anybody else but, both of my Supercuts have quite stiff locking levers, and it can take a fair bit of force sometimes to open them?
Also, the lever is a vulnerable part of the tool when in certain uses, I wouldn’t fancy a plastic lever personally.

When my Supercuts were brand new, I remember putting a blade in for the first time, and realised how firm the levers are, and because of the finish, at first thought they were plastic, and was a little dismayed until I found they were alloy.

Another thing I have noticed with the latest Supercut, and the new Vecturo is although they are extremely powerful, and the cordless on par in power with a mains powered, they still have a couple of possible issues.

The power is great, and is what sets these above other multi tools but, I notice both vibrate a lot still, even though the later design has the motor shock absorber type design, it still doesn’t kill enough of the vibration (in my opinion).

My Supercuts are 18 volt and pre Starlock, so do not have the shock absorber design, and this caused a lot of problems, mainly batteries getting welded to the tool body, because of friction heat.
This resulted in repairs on both that had new batteries and tool outer casing replacment, along with PTFE sponge tape a pads fitted to reduce friction and heat build up, through vibration.
So, and expensive tool, that relied on tape and sponge for durability?

My tools were used sometimes for lengthy periods but, well withing Fein guidlines for the tool, and they were simply melting, even on mainly setting no. 1

This was a characteristic problem with this model I later discovered, and many were repaired, hence the design change on the Starlock version.

I have used the latest Starlock type 18 volt Supercut a lot in the last few weeks, and the vibration is still there, and I’m wondering if it will cause the same issues? I have recently had a quick try of the 18 volt Vecturo, and the power seems on par with the Supercut as you’d expect, for obvious reasons, and also, at least with the one I tried, the vibration.

Seems a trade off, great power which is what we want, especially in that type of tool but, the sacrifice seems to be vibration?

Any multi tools I’ve tried where vibration is minimal, were either much less powerful than the Supercut and Vecturo, or with a different anti vibe design.

What’s others experiences, even with the Supercuts?

 

[pingvinlakrits]

My long term experience with the Corded Supercut (FSC2.0) is that it is a great tool. That extra oscillation really works in tougher material. I honestly think the Supercut vibration is tolerable and I also think the Vecturo isn't much better.

For other long term oscillation tools my experience is as follows:

Metabo 18V: good basic model. No real issues with it. Some vibration with certain blades but other than that a strong machine. Supplied with a Supercut blade adapter. LiHD batteries works great for runtime.

Hitachi/Hikoki 18V: also good and basic model. Slim grip and moderate vibration.  Has an extra locking collar (to avoid dropping blades) that makes for a slower blade change. My preferred battery machine thanks to the slim grip.

Bosch 18V: first one rattled the battery loose and if you pushed on the battery the rpm changed...  Second one with no issues. Quite low vibration and cuts well. A bit "square" in design but overall a good multicutter.  Have heard some reports with battery becoming stuck. Or falling off! Though I believe they have had an issue with this my own low sample experience does not reflect this. The one guy I know who has had his for a few years have no issues and neither have I with my machine.

All of them are very good machines and all have metal locking levers.

Festool is not alone in going plastic for some wear and tear parts. Even Mafell has done this - and in a negative way I think. The new DDF40 duo doweler is a technical marvel but all those fiddly plastic parts (that give a little in operation) do not inspire confidence when compared to the DD40G/P model.

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

[member=2085]Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits[/member] both of my Supercuts are cordless, and that's where the issue lies. Your corded version may well vibrate but, you have no battery rattling and humming all over the place when the tool is in use. I have used the corded versions, and although they vibrate, it's not to the level the cordless machine does. So, whilst it may cause a bit of discomfort, and even get quite warm, there is no danger of the battery welding itself to the tool body/casing.

This was definitely an issue on the previous 18 volt Supercut, which the Fein UK service dept admitted to me, after both of my machines had been returned at least twice for new casings and batteries, and bits of sponge and PTFE tape. It's the reason why the latest model has the swiveling head.

The later cordless also vibrates a lot, the new cordless Vecturo too, so I'm wondering how durable they will be?

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Yup, going from memory here, it has been a while since I needed the corded Supercut. I have never thought it bothersome with the vibration and the occasional "rough" experience has been due to the material being cut.

I forgot to add two Multicutters to the list:

Makita 18V multicutter: used a loaner on one or two small jobs. It is not bad but it was probably at the bottom of my list.

The Multimaster AFMM 12V was nice in build and grip but around that time they only had 2,5 Ah batteries and I thought the runtime on them was quite low.

I wouldn't say I would rank them all in any specific order other than that the corded Supercut has been the best performer of the bunch - with some margin.

Out of the cordless none have been bad (except the Bosch dud) but in bang for the buck and ease of use I would definitely say the Hitachi (Hikoki or Metabo HPT nowadays).  I would rank the Vecturo 18V at the top for features but in the middle for size and vibration and at the bottom for value (for the Basic set w/o the accessories it is more than twice as expensive as many of the competition).

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

I had two of the early Makita 18volt machines, and although I’m still a long time Makita fan, they were made of chocolate!
They were so bad, it prompted me to buy the 18 volt Supercut, the difference was night and day in power. Supercut on no.1 was like the Makita on full power.

So, being so impressed with the Supercut, I bought a second one, and as I mentioned, both developed the issue caused by excessive vibration. I have very recently replaced the casings on both again, as they are no longer in warranty.
So, one has had three replacement casings, the other has had four, not to mention the replacement batteries.
I now also have the latest Makita version as a back up, and I agree with you, it’s nothing to write home about. It hasn’t suffered the issues of the Supercuts though, probably because of it’s shock absorber between battery and casing, and it’s lack if power.

We use multi tools on a daily basis for all kinds of jobs, they’re never abused though and so I was very disappointed at the Fein’s obvious design flaw. They built a tool that was very impressive power wise, yet made no allowance for the vibration levels created by such power (cordless version)
The first repair, was after I spoke to the service department, the chap said it was a rare occurance, and they’d not heard of it before, (yeah right).

When both machines suffered the same thing a second time round, I managed to speak to the service manager. He apologised and told me, he’d lost count of how many machines they’d had in for the very same ussue. So, although wondering why I’d paid so much money for something so fragile, I was grateful for his honesty. He also agreed about my comments on the lack of shock absorbers on the machines, and said a soon to be released new model would have a damper/absorber. Can I do a trade in? I asked. You can probably guess the reply.

So, I looked at the new model on launch, and immediately saw the new design incorporated a damper, or kind if separator. This told me that Fein were obviously fully aware of the issue on the previous model. I then noticed bits of PTFE tape and sponge pads added to the battery bay?
So again, a tool, with a high price, supposedly re-designed, yet still requires PTFE tape and pads? Really?

I have since used the new Cordless Supercut, as one of my chaps bought one, although an improvement, it still vibrates too much, and depending on use, gets hot still?
I found the Vecturo cordless virtually the same. The only thing I didn’t check, was to see if the Vecturo also has the PTFE tape and pads?

Although I own a lot of Festool tools, I have never bought any Fein tools apart from the Supercuts. So, I am interested to see how the latest Supercuts (cordless) fair in durability. Also, if Fein are still making the Vecturo, I will wait and see feedback further down the line before buying.

I spend a lot of money on tools, and the main concern for me, is performance and durability. The durability with my Supercuts wasn’t there, so I’m hoping the Vecturo will shine in the performance and durability, as I very much doubt I’d buy another Fein, unless it was mains powered.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

I did see a battery pad on the Vecturo.

I can't see how the Vecturo would be any better than the Fein Supercut since they are essentially the same machine. The accessories are what makes the Vecturo stand out.

This is for both good and bad. It is kind of like the Carvex 420 18V which is a whole _system_  requiring two SYS II T-Loc's for transport. For a jigsaw. Which isn't even that great. 

According to the sales rep they don't stock BT batteries or the Carvex 18V at the moment since there is an issue with the saws running BT.  I don't know if this will relate to the Vecturo 18V.

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

I can't see how the Vecturo would be any better than the Fein Supercut since they are essentially the same machine.

Yes, that’s my thinking, and I’m not sure I could handle a repeat saga of the Fein, with another machine that’s wearing different clothes?

Apparently in some areas, the starlock system is effecting sales of the Fein machines, purely because of the blade costs. Which is understandable, as before the Starlock system was introduced, after market blades could be bought for around 10% of what Fein and Bosch charged.
I know a lot of early Supercut owners, want to keep their machines going as long as possible, as with an adaptor the cheaper blades can be used, unlike the Starlock Max etc.

 

[threesixright]

C'mon people, maybe we need a bit of optimism 

FT is not perfect, and not the cheapest. Whats new  [huh]? They do have a nice service (?) and reselling your tools gives you a bit of a return.

That said, can't imagine its a terrible product. If the lever is indeed that bad, I have to assume they will fix it and a new lever may come in the coming year or 2 (After people keep sending it in)?  Also, to me, being able to buy a basic version, means you can just click on your current batteries. So if yo already own some BP powered tools, thats a big plus. And now tou get a BT battery (hope it works) free. Not that bad of a deal. Blades you can still find for better prices than FT.

Anyway, I will bite the bullet one order a (basic) one. I need to cut 50+ meters of wood from a ceiling, which I think is a good job for this. Above the shoulders and here and there some metal nails.

If its THAT bad, it will be going back. At this point I will give them the benefit of the doubt [tongue].

On a side note, I always understood that when FEIN brings new products, FT needs to wait a few years. IMO that would mean that they should have worked out the kinks (by now)...

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

Blades you can still find for better prices than FT.

Not if they are Starlock Max, which it looks like they are? Only Fein and Bosch have the patent on those.

In the UK, before Starlock Max, with the old Supercut fitting, you get an adaptor, and pick and choose the blade type and supplier.
So I would buy 10 fine cut wood blades for £22, a single Fein was/is £15.99  [eek]

As a company, we buy 50-100 blades at a time, if they were all Starlock Max, that's big money! So, when the new Starlock Max was launched, many potential buyers were put off, because Fein and Bosch tied up the new blade fitting patent. This meant that nobody can copy these blades, and as far as I'm aware, there is no adaptor. My regular blade supplier told me they, or anybody else, cannot help with Starlock Max blades.
This, is why I have kept my older Supercuts going, replacing the melted body casings every so often, means I can carry on using our vast stock of blades with the adaptor.

By time the blades are all used up, I'm hoping the patent for Starlock Max will be lifted, or there will be an after market licence for cheaper options?

For somebody that uses these machines professionally but, with only occasional use, or a hobbyist or weekend woodworker, a handful of assorted blades looked after, will not be so much of an issue. The usual gulp at the price, and then it's forgotten. However, for set ups like mine, where we are using numerous machines on a daily basis, even with extreme care, blades, cheap or expensive have a short life span.
My son was trimming the bottoms of door jamb architraves just last week, ready for us to start laying an oak floor. He used a depth stop but, still caught a flooring brad that somebody had fixed the frame with. He swore a lot as it was a £22 blade.  [blink] This is unavoidable, even bi metal blades blunt quickly when hitting nails.
We even keep blunt blades, and hone them down to fine edge almost razor blades, which come in handy for glue and sealant removal, just to keep cost down.

I once bought a Fein diamond edged paddle blade, it was £80, I then managed to buy a set of three after market same shape etc, for £45, and they lasted the same amount as the Fein?

 

[threesixright]

Blades you can still find for better prices than FT.

Not if they are Starlock Max, which it looks like they are? Only Fein and Bosch have the patent on those.

In the UK, before Starlock Max, with the old Supercut fitting, you get an adaptor, and pick and choose the blade type and supplier.
So I would buy 10 fine cut wood blades for £22, a single Fein was/is £15.99  [eek]

[eek] Didn't realise this, can get pretty expensive!

Nevertheless you can put the cheaper starlock blades in the machine (supposed to be downwards compatible)? Or am I wrong?

 

[rst]

All this makes me more than happy that I bought both my corded and cordless Supercuts before the Starlock came out.  And I thought I was lucky at the time that I could use my extensive number of blades that I had for my MM and that I could buy the Festool plunge attachment to fit to my Supers.

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

I’ll try and keep it simple, as it can be confusing even for me, and I learned it all when Starlock was launched.
In the Starlock system, there are three fittings:

Starlock: This is the basic fitting, used for the lower power, home owner type machines. These blades can be used on some older machines but, older blades cannot be used with this machine fitting.

Starlock Plus: This is a more expensive fitting, designed for the mid power range of tools, including the pro stuff, like Multi Master etc. Again, some of the blades fit older machines but, older blades will not fit this machine fitting.

Starlock Max: This fitting is for the most powerful of machines, such as Supercut, abd the Bosch GOP Professional. These blades will not fit older machines, and older blades will not fit this machine fitting. If you own either of these two machines, you have to buy the very expensive Starlock Max blades.

Personally, I’m only interested in the higher power machines, hence me buying Supercuts.
Starlock Max though, means my blade buying options are zero.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

C'mon people, maybe we need a bit of optimism 

FT is not perfect, and not the cheapest. Whats new  [huh]? They do have a nice service (?) and reselling your tools gives you a bit of a return.

That said, can't imagine its a terrible product. If the lever is indeed that bad, I have to assume they will fix it and a new lever may come in the coming year or 2 (After people keep sending it in)?  Also, to me, being able to buy a basic version, means you can just click on your current batteries. So if yo already own some BP powered tools, thats a big plus. And now tou get a BT battery (hope it works) free. Not that bad of a deal. Blades you can still find for better prices than FT.

Anyway, I will bite the bullet one order a (basic) one. I need to cut 50+ meters of wood from a ceiling, which I think is a good job for this. Above the shoulders and here and there some metal nails.

If its THAT bad, it will be going back. At this point I will give them the benefit of the doubt [tongue].

On a side note, I always understood that when FEIN brings new products, FT needs to wait a few years. IMO that would mean that they should have worked out the kinks (by now)...

I had my order in for the Basic one, making the same assumption you did (sort of anyway) but seeing it in the flesh raises doubts.
At that price level  - which again is about twice the cost of most other brands - I don't buy on "good faith".
I don't want to send it in either or wait until they iron kinks out when I have competing brands that have machines that actually work well. Plastic lever,  excessive vibration (as compared to its peers) and no Starlock Max makes it a deal killer for me.

My HUGE stack of Supercut blades helped in the decision too.  [big grin]

 

[threesixright]

I have also found out, that the new Vecturo, is Starlock Plus blade fitting. This tells me, that machine is not of high power, at least not in Supercut territory. If it were, it would be Starlock Max fitting.
So although a few of us have been comparing the Vecturo to a Supercut, it’s almost certainly more comparable to a Multi Master.

Not sure where you get that info from? The FT website clearly states its StarlockMax

Furthermore, the StarlockMax tool holder makes it possible to change tools quickly without the need for additional equipment, while the brushless EC-TEC motor with vibration isolation ensures that work can progress at an ultra-rapid pace at the same consistently high level of comfort.

https://www.festool.co.uk/products/...c-18-cordless-oscillator/574852---osc-18-li-3,1-e-set-gb#Overview

 

[wpz]

C'mon people, maybe we need a bit of optimism 

FT is not perfect, and not the cheapest. Whats new  [huh]? They do have a nice service (?) and reselling your tools gives you a bit of a return.

That said, can't imagine its a terrible product. If the lever is indeed that bad, I have to assume they will fix it and a new lever may come in the coming year or 2 (After people keep sending it in)?  Also, to me, being able to buy a basic version, means you can just click on your current batteries. So if yo already own some BP powered tools, thats a big plus. And now tou get a BT battery (hope it works) free. Not that bad of a deal. Blades you can still find for better prices than FT.

Anyway, I will bite the bullet one order a (basic) one. I need to cut 50+ meters of wood from a ceiling, which I think is a good job for this. Above the shoulders and here and there some metal nails.

If its THAT bad, it will be going back. At this point I will give them the benefit of the doubt [tongue].

On a side note, I always understood that when FEIN brings new products, FT needs to wait a few years. IMO that would mean that they should have worked out the kinks (by now)...

I had my order in for the Basic one, making the same assumption you did (sort of anyway) but seeing it in the flesh raises doubts.
At that price level  - which again is about twice the cost of most other brands - I don't buy on "good faith".
I don't want to send it in either or wait until they iron kinks out when I have competing brands that have machines that actually work well. Plastic lever,  excessive vibration (as compared to its peers) and no Starlock Max makes it a deal killer for me.

My HUGE stack of Supercut blades helped in the decision too.  [big grin]

correct me if I'm wrong, but according to the festool and fein websites:
- the OSC 18 does have a starlock MAX tool holder.
- compared to the fein AFSC 18 QCSL, measured vibration levels are exactly the same as the OSC 18
- advisory price for OSC 18 and AFSC 18 is quite close to each other (€457 excl. VAT for fein with 2x 2.5A bat + charger + case / €434 excl. VAT for festool with 1x 3.1A bat + charger + sys + 1x blade)

I haven't seen the OSC 18 in the flesh yet, so I cannot comment on the plastic lever or real world vibration levels, but it looks to me like the fein and festool are pretty much identical machines, apart from the housing and the battery (and maybe the lever).
So which one you buy probably comes down to which battery platform you already own (fein or festool), no?

wpz

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

Well, good news and bad news, I was given the wrong information regarding the Vecturo 18 v blade fitment, it is not Starlock Plus, it is Starlock Max. Which means it is on par with the power of the Supercut, and Bosch GOP Pro. This would explain the similar vibration levels.

The bad news is, it will only take the most expensive blades Starlock Max, from either Bosch or Fein. So, blades will be a very expensive consumable, for some more than others.
Yes the Supercut and Vecturo are very similar, as they are both made by Fein.
The vecturo has the better accessory kit but, a plastic lock lever.

If the blade patent wasn’t tied up, I’d consider either, just for the incredible power they put out.

 

[ss]

The bad news is, it will only take the most expensive blades Starlock Max...

Is this correct? My understanding was that a Starlock Max tool (such as the OSC) could take Max, Plus and Starlock blades.

e.g. Three accessories listed against the OSC are Starlock, Starlock Plus and Starlock MAX respectively...https://www.festool.co.uk/accessory/203333---hsb-5035josc5https://www.festool.co.uk/accessory/203332---hsb-5065josc5https://www.festool.co.uk/accessory/203336---usb-7842biosc5