VS 600 jointing system....Who's using it?

[The Dude]

Good Morning All, I don't know if it is the "Post AWFS syndrome" or what;  I am getting a ton of inquiries as to the VS 600.  Who is using this machine on a regular basis.  I will leave my own perspective out of it since I am a dealer.  However, I will say that I believe it to be pretty slick....but pricey when you start adding all the templates, and bits, and collets oh my....templates and bits and collets oh my.  (Sorry my kids are in The Wizard of Oz at the local theater.)

Thoughts, opinions, GOOD AND BAD, I would love to know.  Jerry has a "hell-of-a" mangual on the product, but I want to know all your thoughts.  And, YUP!  It has been discussed on FOG before, but perhaps there are new perspectives.

Timmy C

 

[ccmviking]

I use it and really like it.  I only have and use the SZ14 template and bit and use them for making drawer boxes.  Very fast and accurate, easy setup, great results.  I use it with my 1010 router and have minimal cleanup at the end... 

Chris... 

 

[Brice Burrell]

I use it and really like it.  I only have and use the SZ14 template and bit and use them for making drawer boxes.  Very fast and accurate, easy setup, great results.  I use it with my 1010 router and have minimal cleanup at the end... 

Chris... 

Any chance you could post some pictures????

 

[Greg in Memphis]

Hi Timmy
I do not own, nor do I currently use the VS 600 system.
For some time I've been studying the VS 600 just because it's made by Festool.
It seems to be a pretty good setup, but by the time you add all the extras, you could get into some serious dough.
I've also been looking pretty hard at the Domino. Very cool machine.
Lately I have really been leaning towards the WoodRat, to accomplish both functions, and then some. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
I do expect the learning curve on both the Domino and the VS 600 to be shorter than the WR alone.

It would really be nice to see the next generation of Domino cut more than just mortise shaped holes. How about dovetail slots,etc.?
I'm not sure if Festool would come out with that for the sake of their VS 600 line though.

Everything Festool I've bought so far has been golden. I know that the woodrat would be alot more complicated, but heck, it just seems to do so much more for the money.
Maybe, as a dealer, if you could give me a really good deal on a VS 600...

just my thoughts

Greg

 

[Paul Franklin]

I have one and use it alot, I make about 40 drawers a month with mine, It is very easy to use and fast. My only problem with it is that it will not make half blind dovetails in 1/2" stock. I also have a Leigh D4, but it has been sitting there collecting dust. I am seriously looking at a Powermatic or Dodd dovetail machine, but that is even bigger investmant! (3-5K)

Paul

 

[The Dude]

I have one and use it alot, I make about 40 drawers a month with mine, It is very easy to use and fast. My only problem with it is that it will not make half blind dovetails in 1/2" stock. I also have a Leigh D4, but it has been sitting there collecting dust. I am seriously looking at a Powermatic or Dodd dovetail machine, but that is even bigger investmant! (3-5K)

Paul

The non 1/2" thing is a hang-up of mine as well. 

Timmy C

 

[Tinker]

Hi Timmy
I do not own, nor do I currently use the VS 600 system.
For some time I've been studying the VS 600 just because it's made by Festool.
It seems to be a pretty good setup, but by the time you add all the extras, you could get into some serious dough.
I've also been looking pretty hard at the Domino. Very cool machine.
Lately I have really been leaning towards the WoodRat, to accomplish both functions, and then some. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
I do expect the learning curve on both the Domino and the VS 600 to be shorter than the WR alone.

It would really be nice to see the next generation of Domino cut more than just mortise shaped holes. How about dovetail slots,etc.?
I'm not sure if Festool would come out with that for the sake of their VS 600 line though.

Everything Festool I've bought so far has been golden. I know that the woodrat would be alot more complicated, but heck, it just seems to do so much more for the money.
Maybe, as a dealer, if you could give me a really good deal on a VS 600...

just my thoughts

Greg

I bought the VS 600, studied the directions and promptl put it on the shelf for future trial.  Why/  Because i felt i could do so much more with my WR.  I am also looking at the Dominoe, but keep thinking about the fact i have been doing loose tennons and more with my WR for years.  I have about decided to wait on the Domino and the VS 600 will probably continue to gather dust until i hget tired of playing with my Rat.

I will say this for both VS 600 and the Domino, you will not be limited to length of board unless you are 9ft tall and can set the Rat as high as you might need.

Mine is set for 43" height, but I have set it up on a WorkMate to do DT's on a 5 foot board.

Every tool has its limitations.  To copy Clint Eastwood, "A man has to know his limitations">>> including his tool uses
Tinker

 

[Jesse Cloud]

I've used the VS600 on a couple of projects.  There is a learning curve, but I suspect you will find that true with just about any dovetail jig.  DEFINITELY read Jerry Work's manual first - its solid gold and has some incredibly useful charts and info.

I like the 600 - it has a large capacity (I use it to dovetail carcasses).  Once you get it set up, its very straightforward.

It is pricey, but for most folks, there's just no reason to buy all the templates, just buy the ones you need for your project.

 

[greg mann]

Lately I have really been leaning towards the WoodRat, to accomplish both functions, and then some. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
I do expect the learning curve on both the Domino and the VS 600 to be shorter than the WR alone.

I bought the VS 600, studied the directions and promptl put it on the shelf for future trial.  Why/  Because i felt i could do so much more with my WR.  Tinker

It sometime amazes me how circular woodworking techniques can be. Both of you are thinking WoodRat could eclipse the VS 600 for your personal approach to joinery, while over on SMC there is a thread about the WR and one guy responds that he thinks an EZ system with the router attachment would give him more versatility than the WoodRat for less investment. Hey, maybe he can do dovetails with it too.  : At the same time another guy ponders that the WR doesn't look as desirable for him since the Domino came along (even though the Domino makes the cost of a WR less intimidating). For me, I have a set of kitchen cabinets to build, the main purpose for which is to replace the ugliest MDF cabinets you ever saw. We're going to use maple to brighten up the room some but for the drawers I don't have a dovetail jig or a WR, so I'm thinking Domi-drawers just to get in and get done. The house is going up for sale in the coming months anyway. I don't have the VS 600 but I might get it and justify it on this project, but, what did I do two nights ago when I couldn't sleep? Watched the 50 minute WR video. Go figure.  ???

Actually, I do have a dovetail jig. Bought it at a garage sale for $2.00. I figure after I fiddle with it for a couple hours I will probably come to the conclusion that I paid exactly what it was worth.

One more observation: The VS600 might not work on 1/2 half blinds but half blinds on the WR will need corners chiseled out.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Greg,

This may be viewed as heresy on FOG, but here goes.  Unless you are determined to make those kitchen drawers with variable spaced dovetails imitating fine handmade furniture, why not buy one of the many relatively inexpensive 12" or 18" dovetail jigs such those available from Hartville Tool.  Here is the URL to the 12" package. http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/10969  I have seen them demonstrated at their store and the setup jig seems to work well.  When I confronted a similar project years ago, I used a plastic jig from Craftsman and later a Trendlines metal jig (PC knockoff design).  The Craftsman jig had surprisingly accurate preset stops and could handle all common stock thicknesses and both flush and overlap front drawers.  Of course, none of these have effective dust collection.  I do not know if a Festool router equipped with one of their bottom side dust collection nozzles would be effective with a non-Festool jig.

Dave R.

 

[cdconey]

I use(used) the VS600 with the dowel template for casework.  Now that I have the Domino,  the casework goes together a little more accurately and quicker.

I guess I need to break out my DT Templates and order the box joint templates. 

Just waiting for Festool to get the 12mm Dovetail templates in for the 12mm stock for drawers ( or provide some detail so I can have one machined ).  In one of the first online chats on yahoo groups, they said they were likely bringing them in in the future, but it's been about 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 years since that chat took place.    Maybe someone could figure out a way to Cheat the 5/8" template for this

BTW, the dowel template works great for dowelling 5 mm dowels in 12mm stock for drawers. 

 

[woodshopdemos]

Please visit the "Dovetail Jig Shootout" on my website:http://www.woodshopdemos.com/dtshoot-1.htm

Every jig you have discussed is in there, I think. Like the other large jigs, the VS600 is most expensive only when you but all the templates and bits. You don't need to. I leave the SZ14 on the jig and use it for all drawers. For those who think they need variable spacing... Why? Drawer height do not need to be all variable. Make them the height that works for you... In my case, I want a 1/2 DT at the top and bottom of the corner. So I measure from the template the distances between the fingers. There are a bunch of numbers here that when you use them to design your drawer height -- you have instant proportioned DTs. It makes set up so much easier too. Simply set your board on the unit and move it right or left until the fingers are equal. Then move the stop over to fit against the board.

This setup makes 1/2 blind. Even though I think thru dovetails give a stronger joint, they also require two bits and two templates. So I use 1/2 blind. One template, one setting and cut both boards at once.

By the way, in my catalog I see a knob listed as an accessory. Get it. It is for tightening the mid-section of the hold down. When you are doing small drawers like 6" wide, that clamp is necessary.

 

[The Dude]

WOW! What great feed back.  I have directed inquiries  regarding the VS 600 to this thread on FOG...such a tremendous resource! I am sure we will see some new members very soon. Thank you all for your support and input!

Timmy C

 

[ccmviking]

Here's a picture of some cabinets I made a while back.  I prefer to only work with BLUM hardware and for the tandem slides they have 2 models.  One will only work with wood up to 9/16" and the other 3/4".  Well on this project I accidentally selected the wrong slides (I get most of this stuff online via www.charlesmcmurray.com).  Well I went ahead and planed some lumber down to 9/16" and it worked fine.  You can see they got a little then but they were still very strong and went together well... 

Chris...

 

[greg mann]

Greg,

This may be viewed as heresy on FOG, but here goes.  Unless you are determined to make those kitchen drawers with variable spaced dovetails imitating fine handmade furniture, why not buy one of the many relatively inexpensive 12" or 18" dovetail jigs such those available from Hartville Tool.  Here is the URL to the 12" package. http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/10969   I have seen them demonstrated at their store and the setup jig seems to work well.  When I confronted a similar project years ago, I used a plastic jig from Craftsman and later a Trendlines metal jig (PC knockoff design).  The Craftsman jig had surprisingly accurate preset stops and could handle all common stock thicknesses and both flush and overlap front drawers.  Of course, none of these have effective dust collection.  I do not know if a Festool router equipped with one of their bottom side dust collection nozzles would be effective with a non-Festool jig.

Dave R.

Not heresy, Dave. Your suggestion makes a lot of sense. I was just trying to point out the ironies involved in the decision making process for various folks and how the determining factors never seem to be consistent. The expense of the solution really does not matter to me, even though as I read my post it may have come across that way. This is my hobby. For someone like Per or Mirko or any other number of Pros out there decisions often need to be based on economic realities. For me, in the end, I will buy the tool and use the process that will give me the most satisfaction, and, I will probably derive that satisfaction from leaving behind a set of well crafted drawers even if it does not necessarily make economic sense to do so. After all, the next project may be an heirloom dresser for my daughter and I will have had some practise in hand. Even the notion that it might be overkill can be challenged. How many of us despair over mediocre work that we encounter in our everyday lives? Just maybe, if I make a really great set of kitchen cabinets they will not wind up in a landfill because subsequent owners like them so much they don't want to replace them. One can always aspire for such things, eh? Looks like a VS 600 might be in my future. 

 

[Dan Lyke]

I got one of the $80 (may have even been less) jigs at my local hardware store. It ain't Festool. The whole frame has a slight warp in it, the adjustments are sticky, blah blah blah.

On the other hand, once I built a little holder to clamp the thing on to my MFS, I've been turning out half-blind dovetails as my "by default" 90 degree joint. True, they're all regularly spaced, but, you know, $80.

And when I want to go for a more complex corner I'll either finish up the indexing component to my router table (haven't done so yet, using the 1010 handheld has been so convenient I haven't put the last few touches on the table) so that I have Incra jig like capabilities, or get a VS600 or a Lee Valley or a Wood Rat or...

But for knocking out drawers and planter boxes with half-blind dovetails, the $80 thingie has worked fine.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

I have tried several different dovetail jigs.  For quick drawers, the $80 wonders do the job.  I seem to wind up making lots of carcasses that will hold heavy weights (buffet/bookcase in the works now, hanging tool cabinets next), so I need to cut wide panels - the 600 excels at that.

Having said that, the 600 is probably the least unique of Festool's offerings, certainly not as revolutionary as the plunge saw or the domino.  It is, though, a very sturdy, very precise tool and I'm happy to have it, especially with the OF1400 router and the CT22.  One caution though, hogging out dovetails can fill a vac bag fast!!