VS600 or Leigh Superjig?

[gkeas]

I'm looking at the VS600 Radomir has in the classifieds, but even at his price, I could get the Liegh superjig and all the extras.

My understanding is that the Leigh is incredibly versitile, without the need from lots of templates.  Can anyone with either or both of these chime in and let me know whats up?

Thanks!

 

[Jim Becker]

I'm not familiar with either of the two you ask about, but do own the Leigh D4. It's an incredible versatile dovetail system with the absolute best manual on the planet you'll ever get for a tool.

 

[wnagle]

I've never used the v600, but I do have the leigh D4R... If you decide on the leigh, I'd get the D4R....  Just my opinion....

 

[gkeas]

There is not an enormous price difference between the Superjig and the D4R.  I can see the occassional use for the variable pin width, I guess.

I'm beyond the point of buying something to save a few bucks, then going back in a week or a month or a year and getting the bigger/better/etc unit I originally coveted.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[wnagle]

Well in my opinion, the D4R is there cadilac and the superjigs are scaled down in quality and function to appease the price shoppers...(Although for some it fits there needs completely)  The D4R was designed better and more complete for the woodworker...

 

[Overtime]

Still have the VS 600 and still love it.
    The good ....
It's part of the "System" so if you have a festool 1010 or 1400 (w/little dust attachment too) great - a CT vac, even better
Easy to setup and use ( short learning curve)
Excellent results and easy to dial the fit in. (tight - loose) 
Get only the templates and bits that you will need.
Repeats are also easy - like if you trashed a drawer side and need to remake one.
Wide capacity

    The not so good....
Half blind minimum stock thickness is 5/8"
All fixed spacing so no variable or custom dovetails - (no big deal for me - don't miss it)

It seems that most woodworkers just don't want to be limited to the fixed spacing thing when they have other good choices available.
I like the compatability with my routers and bits (festools) and I know what to expect as far as quality of the workmanship.

The super jig looks real nice, esp the price.  I have the Leigh FMT and the quality and precision of the tool is outstanding.

 

[nickao]

I was very happy with the Akeda jig when I made cabinets. The ultimate dust collection.

 

[Loren Hedahl]

I've had my Leigh D4 for a long time, before I'd even heard of Festool.

The reason I got it in the first place was because I had a remodel of a kitchen to do in an upper class residence where the cabinets were in fine shape structurally and functionally, but needed refacing and new drawers.  The owners wanted to do the drawer construction with dovetails, but the existing drawer sizes were such that using a standard dovetail jig just wouldn't work to get a reasonable half-pin at the ends on just about every drawer in that kitchen.

With the variable spacing of the D4 I was able to accommodate this client with custom spaced half-blind dovetails.  This was a big factor in making that job a real success and quite easily done with the D4.

On the other hand, where projects can be designed within the constraints of a standard jig with fixed standard spacing, there can be a fairly extensive production time advantage in going that direction.  There's also client expectations to consider.  Most are very familiar with cabinetry done with standard fixed space dovetails as done by most cabinet shops.  They might not be completely accepting of a variable spaced dovetail job.

Using a D4 is a bit more complicated, but once you've been through it a time or two, it just isn't any big deal.

 

[fshanno]

I have a Super Jig 18 with the support bar and dust collection kit.  I've never owned or used any other jig so my frame of reference is very narrow but I'll add my two cents worth anyway. 

I think my results are pretty good with this jig.  It was easy to set up and learn.  Dust collection is good and it's fun to use.  I use my OF 1400 with it.

I don't consider my Super Jig to be a super well made device.  It's ok but not perfect by a long shot.  Its an analog device, you can tweak it and get better results.  I'm not just taking about tightness of the joint, I'm talking about the beauty of the result.  Sometimes I get tear out and sometimes I don't.  Sometimes the cuts are almost perfect and sometimes not so perfect.  In other words it's not a dial in lock down process for me.  Sometimes I'm really on with the jig and sometimes I'm not.  I've never ruined a board other than by committing a stupid error like putting the wrong angle bit in or cutting tails in a piece that should have gotten pins.  But I have gotten results on occasion that were barely acceptable.  On other occasions I've gotten joints that were nearly perfect. 

So here's my advice and it's based on the assumption you already have a Festool router.  If you are content with template spaced dovetails get the VS 600 because it will work better with your 1400 or 1010.  If you need variable spaced dovetails then go shopping because you have many options. 

One last thing I'd like to add.  The reason I wanted the ability to make variable spaced dovetails was appearance.  Different patterns have their relative appeals.  And if appearance is important then surely the thinkness of the throat of the pin is important.  Elegant hand cut dovetails often have very narrow pins.  None of the jigs provide this elegance because they all use carbide dovetail bits.  The WoodRat on the other hand uses HSS bits which come much closer to that hand cut look.  To me this is not insignificant.  Therefore my second guessing has not been about the VS 600 or the DR4 or the OmniJig or the Akeda but about the WoodRat.

 

[spikfot]

variable spacing means that you can choose the width of your workpiece, say a drawer, and divide the pin spacing for a perfect layout.  with a fixed jig you are forced to work within a very limited number of widths for good spacing.

a cab maker who pumps out drawers as fast as possible from the same plans week after week might like the simplicity of a fixed jig.    a nut like myself enjoys pumping out drawers about 1/2 the time, and the other 1/2  i design and make custom furniture and my d4r leaves all the options open for me.    i also use fixed jigs when the appearance is not  priority, or when i'm making  sliding dovetails or box joints.      sometimes i ad a wide tail or even fade the pins into tails and back to pins over a  workpiece giving the piece a very custom look.  as opposed to the s t a m p e d o u t  look a fixed jig offers. 

  i have also made the mistake of "nicking" my jig with a bit,  (not waiting for the bit to stop before removing router)  with a fixed jig this mistake would be very costly.  with the d4r,  i just ordered an extra slider.  the shipping cost me more than the part!       

  then theres the manuals.  i think god wrote them himself.  mortals just don't think that clearly.      i have a small fortune in tools,  the majority of which i have not read the manual for.  but i love to read my leigh books,                               

 

 

[fshanno]

Ditto for the Super Jig.  The manual is excellent.  Also the Leigh web sight has lots of info.

With variable spacing you can get creative.  On tall drawers I like to put two very close together at the top and two very close together near the bottom, leaving a wide gap in the middle or maybe one lone dovetail in the middle.  Still plenty strong and looks very good.

You can also cut needle pins with Leigh Jigs.  You have to cut the tails by hand but the pins are more than half the job.  But again, you have to have jig which provides variable spacing.

 

[gkeas]

Thanks for all the responses.

 

[josephgewing]

I have not used anything else, but have been very pleased with the Akeda Jig. 

There are slight restrictions such as:  The drawer parts should be made in heights that are divisible by 1/8 inch;  The joint spacing is also *limited* to 1/8 inch increments - so it is not infinitely variable - but on the other hand it is very precisely repeatable, and easily so.

The instruction book is excellent.  Kevin Lear, the inventer is a quick phone call away if you need more help or want to bounce things off him.  Very knowledgeable and friendly.

I have made over 50 dovetail drawers with this jig and have no complaints.

Joe Ewing
Las Cruces, NM

 

[sw1211]

Garry, Are you going to the WW Show in Denver this weekend?  Leigh usually has a booth and would be available to answer any questions.  Who knows, they might even have their stuff on sale.

 

[gkeas]

Garry, Are you going to the WW Show in Denver this weekend?  Leigh usually has a booth and would be available to answer any questions.  Who knows, they might even have their stuff on sale.

I didn't know about the show, but I may check it out.  Thanks for the heads up!

 

[sw1211]

Here's a link,http://cms.thewoodworkingshows.com/cms/