Wago wire connector nuts

I almost exclusively use 2.5 mm2 and that's what I find most in installations.

Here (EU, not sure if its universal for the whole EU...) 1.5 mm2 for switches and 2.5 mm2 for sockets. But we run 230V

So most wiring in US houses is 15amp circuits, which here is wired with 14 gauge.  So not much of a difference,  the 20A stuff is done with 12gauge.  Code only requires 20A outlets in a few spots.  Better builders will just wire everything in 20A/12gauge, that helps when people have a lot of different plugs in use at the same time on a circuit. But they cheap out on everything, so really you will only see it on a contracted home were you spec such wiring. 

I'm not sure on the 1.5 for switches and 2.5mm for sockets? are you mixing wire sizes in the same circuit?  Or do you not power lights and plugs off the same circuit?  20Amp circuits can become an issue if used with multi switch lighting, as 20A 3ways get expensive, 20A 4 ways are insane prices.  Best practice is to have lights and plugs on separate circuits in a room, but it's not required, and builders cheap out.  Makes doing work in such rooms "fun", want to work on the lights, no working plugs to plug a lamp into.
 
I installed low voltage outdoor landscape lighting throughout the yard 15+ years ago. There are 30 bollard lamps and 20+ downward projecting fence lights plus several spot lights and some individual small spotlights highlighting small sculptures. All use LED lights and have been absolutely bullet proof over the years.

For me, the success in this lighting was guaranteed by tinning every electrical connection so that wire oxidation wouldn't eventually compromise the entire system and render it useless. An oxidized connection is a clear path to electrical resistance, a potential fire hazard and ultimately an electrical failure.

To ensure the success of this, at the time, I installed Wago push-in connectors which were cutting-edge 15 years ago. They've given me absolutely no problems and the lights are operated from dusk-to-dawn 365 days a year in rain and snow...sometimes to the depth of 3 feet.

Around 2 years ago I decided to replace the inexpensive ($10) bollards with some RAB items which are more substantial. Here's a shot of the Wago connector attached to the original bollard after 13 seasons of outdoor service.

[attachimg=1]

The issue I had with the original Wago push-in connector, is that to remove the wire ends from the Wago by twisting the wire, sometimes the wire is held so tight that the stranded wire breaks before the wire connection is released. Thus I've begun the task of replacing the original Wago connectors with the new 221 lever connectors...a huge difference when it comes to operating ease.

Inspite of the code restrictions, I'm also using the Wago 221 lever nuts inside the house for electrical connections. They are so slick...it's too bad the local rules & regulations are sometimes so far behind the current times.
 

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DeformedTree said:
I almost exclusively use 2.5 mm2 and that's what I find most in installations.

Here (EU, not sure if its universal for the whole EU...) 1.5 mm2 for switches and 2.5 mm2 for sockets. But we run 230V

So most wiring in US houses is 15amp circuits, which here is wired with 14 gauge.  So not much of a difference,  the 20A stuff is done with 12gauge.  Code only requires 20A outlets in a few spots.  Better builders will just wire everything in 20A/12gauge, that helps when people have a lot of different plugs in use at the same time on a circuit. But they cheap out on everything, so really you will only see it on a contracted home were you spec such wiring. 

I'm not sure on the 1.5 for switches and 2.5mm for sockets? are you mixing wire sizes in the same circuit?  Or do you not power lights and plugs off the same circuit?  20Amp circuits can become an issue if used with multi switch lighting, as 20A 3ways get expensive, 20A 4 ways are insane prices.  Best practice is to have lights and plugs on separate circuits in a room, but it's not required, and builders cheap out.  Makes doing work in such rooms "fun", want to work on the lights, no working plugs to plug a lamp into.

From what I have learnt, US wiring practice is very different to the UK, and I think EU.

Power sockets are normally fed by a ring main, ie the 2.5mm cable goes from one socket to the next and then finally back to the same breaker in the consumer unit (switch box). Here it is protected by a 32A breaker. A typical house may have two rings, upstairs and downstairs. As extensions are built then typically extra rings are added. It is allowed to run any number of spurs off to one double socket each from any point in a ring using 2.5mm. When I refurbished our kitchen I added its own dedicated ring (32A) plus a dedicated feed (4mm) to the cooker, 32A. The house is 60 years old and when I took the old kitchen apart I discovered the cooker was on a 2.5mm spur, off another 2.5mm spur!!!

Star wiring is not commonly used. If so typically a 20A breaker is used in the consumer unit.

High power items (ovens etc) have their own dedicated cable and breaker.

Lighting (1.5mm) are also on rings but separate. Each ring will have a 5A breaker.

Nowadays we have Residual current breakers RCCDs (Earth leakage) in the consumer unit, usually one for each bank of say 6 breakers. Thus the whole house is protected in one go.

Our UK plugs have fuses, 3, 5 or 13Amp. These are to protect the power cord and attached equipment. Our plugs are big so as to house the fuse. The pins are long and include an insulated section. It is impossible to get fingers to touch the live part of a pin while inserting the plug. All our plugs have an earth pin even if the equipment doesn't need an earth, in which case it is a plastic pin. This is needed as the socket contains shutters to stop 'items' being poked into the line and neutral holes and the shutter is opened by the action of the (longer) part pin. I think the UK is unique in having fused plugs?

Last figures I saw we were down to about 60 deaths pa from electrocution in the UK (pop 70million). Most of these are humans doing something they really shouldn't. The widespread use of RCCDs has vastly reduced accidental electrocution.

So with a ring main, there should never be more than three cables in the back of a socket. The ring in and out, plus a spur. A typical pattress box is 35mm deep, but 25mm are increasingly common. Many newer sockets are designed to fit even the 25mm deep mattresses and still enable three cables. I even have some that have built in USB chargers that fit a 25mm pattress - can be tight though.

A ring main, plus our socket terminal can accommodate three 2.5mm wires, means that wire nuts aren't commonly needed in the UK. A long time ago ceramic wire nuts were used, but these proved nasty (brittle etc( and the whole concept fell out of favour in the UK. If we wanted to splice wires we would use screw terminals in a dedicated junction box. This is what has now been replaced by Wago blocks in junction boxes.

It is now illegal to do wiring unless you are qualified, (similarly for gas) or you get it inspected and tested by someone who is. I dont think this happens much from the amount of stuff that is bought in DIY stores.
 
DeformedTree said:
I'm not sure on the 1.5 for switches and 2.5mm for sockets? are you mixing wire sizes in the same circuit? 

It's not true, there is no set rule to this. You can buy the 1.5 mm wires, but out of convenience most people and especially professional electricians use 2.5 mm wires only because you are certain they can take the load.

Cheese said:
The issue I had with the original Wago push-in connector, is that to remove the wire ends from the Wago by twisting the wire, sometimes the wire is held so tight that the stranded wire breaks before the wire connection is released. Thus I've begun the task of replacing the original Wago connectors with the new 221 lever connectors...a huge difference when it comes to operating ease.

You are not supposed to use any of those connectors with stranded wires, only with solid wires.
 
Alex said:
You are not supposed to use any of those connectors with stranded wires, only with solid wires.

Correct!  However, if the situation requires the use of stranded wire and solid conductor wire is not available, the only acceptable solution (according to my electrical inspector) is to use crimp ferrules on the wire first to effectively make it a solid conductor.  I doubt he would like using this on the Wago connectors, but when attaching cables to screw terminal blocks, not having the properly crimped ferrules will result in a fail.
 
MikeGE said:
Alex said:
You are not supposed to use any of those connectors with stranded wires, only with solid wires.

Correct!  However, if the situation requires the use of stranded wire and solid conductor wire is not available, the only acceptable solution (according to my electrical inspector) is to use crimp ferrules on the wire first to effectively make it a solid conductor.  I doubt he would like using this on the Wago connectors, but when attaching cables to screw terminal blocks, not having the properly crimped ferrules will result in a fail.

Over here in Holland only solid wires are allowed for steady installations. Stranded wires are for things that get plugged into sockets, that are moveable and require flexibility, you are not allowed to make them part of the building.
 
Those crimp ferrules are indeed often used with stranded wires, but with screw terminals only, you should not stick them into the Wago connectors discussed here. I doubt they even fit.
 
Wrong I"m afraid!
The 2773 series is compatible with solid & stranded.
[attachimg=1]
Alex said:
DeformedTree said:
I'm not sure on the 1.5 for switches and 2.5mm for sockets? are you mixing wire sizes in the same circuit? 
You are not supposed to use any of those connectors with stranded wires, only with solid wires.
 

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The lever locks have usage with stranded and solid as one of the main selling points. Great for connecting light fixtures which often come with 16awg stranded.

Not sure why your codes would take issue with stranded wire in the structure, what do you pull thru conduit?  What do you use for service into the house?

The Typical NM-B  aka (nomex) aka (non-metalic), sheathed wiring used in most residential applications is solid wire, but larger sizes are stranded, and if you are building with conduit, you have to pull individual wires, and that will generally be stranded. Some parts of the country are more extreme like Chicago area, I believe they still require conduit or armored cable for everything, there are special J-boxes just for that part of the country for their codes. Commercial work/multi unit work is also often still conduit or non-metalic.
 
AstroKeith said:
Wrong I"m afraid!
The 2773 series is compatible with solid & stranded.

No, I am right I am afraid. Sorry. [tongue]

On the Wago website you can read they make a difference between Solid, Stranded and Fine Stranded wires.

The 2773 series you mention here are compatible with Stranded or 7-Stranded wires as they call it. Not with Fine Stranded wires. I was reacting to Cheese, and he clearly used Fine Stranded wires. The Fine Stranded wires are most common. Good luck trying to push those in. It only worked for Cheese because he tinned the ends together.

Here Wago shows what is compatible in their promo vid for 2773 series connectors:

[attachimg=3]

And these are the Fine stranded wires I was talking about:

[attachimg=1]

And these are the 7 Stranded wires they mean:

[attachimg=2]
 

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DeformedTree said:
The lever locks have usage with stranded and solid as one of the main selling points. Great for connecting light fixtures which often come with 16awg stranded.

Yes, the lever locks can have all the stranded wires in the world. No pushing in required when the lever is open.

DeformedTree said:
Not sure why your codes would take issue with stranded wire in the structure,

Well, I meant the fine stranded wires. They can't take the loads required for a house.

DeformedTree said:
what do you pull thru conduit? 

What does that mean?

DeformedTree said:
What do you use for service into the house?

What does that mean?  [smile]
 
DeformedTree said:
I almost exclusively use 2.5 mm2 and that's what I find most in installations.

Here (EU, not sure if its universal for the whole EU...) 1.5 mm2 for switches and 2.5 mm2 for sockets. But we run 230V

I'm not sure on the 1.5 for switches and 2.5mm for sockets?

Maybe I should have mentioned  that its for switches that are used for lights. Lights here (CZ) are on its own breaker. If you would be switching your sockets or other heavy stuff I wouldn't go with 1.5 for the switch.

BTW that info comes from my (certified) electrician, so I will assume he knows what he is talking about.
 
Alex said:
What does that mean?  [smile]

Large gauges of wire or only stranded, there is no solid 2/0 wire  (well, maybe someone makes it, but it would be rebar).

A standard service for a home in the US/Canada is 200Aamps.  "service" if that was a point of confusion is the term used for the connection from the utility to your house.  Older homes have 100 (or even less) services.  Cheap builders will often put 150A services in. Bigger homes will have 400A services, those are basically just 2, 200Amp panels (breaker panel) in parallel. 

For 200Amps  in copper you need 2/0, and if using aluminum 4/0.  You can see Bob D. post for a table with conversion if you need it.  Those size wires/cables are only stranded.

You can buy cables/wires in multiple forms here.  You can buy SER cables which are purpose made for this, they have the conductors and ground in a durable covering which can be left exposed. Other wise you have to run individual wires.  (2 hots, neutral, and ground (home side of meter socket).  These need to be color coded too (they allow colored tape). When you run individual wires, they must be in conduit. This can be Rigid (basically galvanized pipe), Metallic (thinner stuff), PVC conduit (grey PVC), ENT (flexy stuff).  I'm not sure if you were joking, or if you have a different term for conduit over there.  For some reason I was thinking a lot of the wiring there is run in conduit.
 
DeformedTree said:
A standard service for a home in the US/Canada is 200Aamps.  "service" if that was a point of confusion is the term used for the connection from the utility to your house.  Older homes have 100 (or even less) services.  Cheap builders will often put 150A services in. Bigger homes will have 400A services, those are basically just 2, 200Amp panels (breaker panel) in parallel. 

For 200Amps  in copper you need 2/0, and if using aluminum 4/0.  You can see Bob D. post for a table with conversion if you need it.  Those size wires/cables are only stranded.

Wow. Is that really true, such thick wires and such high amps? I keep being amazed about how American electricity works.

Over here, the main breakers for a standard home are 25 amps max. They are supplied with electricity from outside through 4 mm thick wires. All single core, solid wires. And they will supply all the energy needed for a house, no need to use thicker wires.

Then everything inside the house is 2,5 mm2 thick wires, and only a wire that runs between a wall switch and a lamp may be 1,5 mm2.

Everything you mention above is considered "industrial" here.

So when I think of "Stranded" wires, I think of the fine stranded wires, we don't see any other here inside a house. I had no idea American lines need to carry such loads you need to get such thick wires.
 
Quote from: DeformedTree on Yesterday at 12:25 PM
what do you pull thru conduit?

What does that mean?


What type wire or cable do you use in a raceway or conduit?

Quote from: DeformedTree on Yesterday at 12:25 PM
What do you use for service into the house?

What does that mean?  [smile]


What type cable do you use for the service drop from the utility pole on the street to the meter and then the service entrance cable from the meter to the breaker panel?
 
Alex said:
You are not supposed to use any of those connectors with stranded wires, only with solid wires.

Ya I know...I just sort of cheated on this one.  [big grin]

However it does work well, and you can't knock success. The first landscape lighting system I put together, I tinned the wire ends and then used twist-on wire nuts. Eventually though contact through the wire nuts wasn't continuous so sometimes the lights went on...sometimes they didn't...and sometimes they flickered. I've never encountered that when using the Wago 773 connectors. However the Wago 221 lever nut connectors are miles ahead.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

 

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Bob D. said:
Quote from: DeformedTree on Yesterday at 12:25 PM
what do you pull thru conduit?

What does that mean?


What type wire or cable do you use in a raceway or conduit?

Quote from: DeformedTree on Yesterday at 12:25 PM
What do you use for service into the house?

What does that mean?  [smile]


What type cable do you use for the service drop from the utility pole on the street to the meter and then the service entrance cable from the meter to the breaker panel?

In my part of the world (where Alex also resides) there are no overhead electricity lines, except high voltage. Everything is underground, even in rural areas. We have to use two parties to get electricity: one firm is responsible for bringing the lines to your home or business. There are a few of those, all active in certain areas (mostly a couple of provinces). They charge for delivery and rental of the meter.
Then there are the 'energy brokers' — there are quite a few of them. And they are available everywhere. Some market themselves on being green, others on being cheap. They are really competitive and good deals can be had when you switch between them. They charge by the kW/hr and also take in all applicable taxes (of which there are quite a few). Most also do natural gas, which is still the most used product for heating and hot water in Holland.

Everything inhouse is subject to code, as in most civilised countries. But in the Netherlands there is one code for all, depending on whether you are a home owner/renter or business. Everything is house has to be in conduits. PVC and ABS are omnipresent. In some cases other conduitmaterial may be used. We only use solid copper wiring.
I do not know if this is still current, but there used to be two ways to do wiring: Centralized (which is with boxes that fork aof to receptables etc., and looped — more or less you Americans do it. BUT: in Holland not every line has a breaker. We group rooms and machines, to use a common breaker. In my home I have two breakerhousings (had to do with division into home and business). Both have six or seven breakers. There is also a main cut off /breaker.

Edit: fixed a few typo’s.
 
Alex said:
DeformedTree said:
A standard service for a home in the US/Canada is 200Aamps.  "service" if that was a point of confusion is the term used for the connection from the utility to your house.  Older homes have 100 (or even less) services.  Cheap builders will often put 150A services in. Bigger homes will have 400A services, those are basically just 2, 200Amp panels (breaker panel) in parallel. 

For 200Amps  in copper you need 2/0, and if using aluminum 4/0.  You can see Bob D. post for a table with conversion if you need it.  Those size wires/cables are only stranded.

Wow. Is that really true, such thick wires and such high amps? I keep being amazed about how American electricity works.

Over here, the main breakers for a standard home are 25 amps max. They are supplied with electricity from outside through 4 mm thick wires. All single core, solid wires. And they will supply all the energy needed for a house, no need to use thicker wires.

Not sure how you could run any home on 25amps.  I just check, while sitting here with just a couple things on, the house only pulls a couple amps, but when the AC runs, that's 16amps (@240V) by itself and that is a small AC.  Code is now 100Amp min and it would be rough to have a modern house on that.  Trailers/Mobile homes have 60A connections, but those assume a lot of the appliances will be Natural Gas/Propane.

I have to assume you run basically everything on gas.  Otherwise it's just not going to work.  A smaller AC unit takes 30-40amp circuit. A dryer ~50amp, cooktops, ~50amp, oven ~50amp,  if you have electric heat or electric back up to a furnace, you will probably have 40-80amp of electric heat.  These are all 240V.  The general assumption is not everything is running at once, or at full power. Water heating is another load.  Tanked water heaters don't draw much electricity, they just waste it.  As we move to tankless, now you have another item that needs massive amps.  The best such units come from Germany. This Company Makes a lot of stuff used here, you can buy them at home centers. That unit is 36kW (150amps). Made in Germany.  So folks must have power for such things.

That unit alone would require a house to have over a 200Amp service. If you were trying to support many showers in a home, you would need multiple units.

While in many areas, such as cities/suburbs,  you can get natural gas service, that is about it. It doesn't exist in rural areas and never will. The cost is over the top compared to running power lines. Now with the early stages of eliminating natural gas usage (some cities have now started banning new gas connections), everything will be electric, this will just make the bigger services (400A) more common/normal. In rural areas, electric heat (baseboards) has been the norm since the 60s unless you heat with wood, or you have to use Propane/Oil which is a hassle and subject to major price shifts, and fear of running out before the fuel truck comes.

If your electrical system is that minimal, then keep that in mind from the discussions we have had one 110V stuff in the US and the idea of getting rid of it.  The US/North America has a massive electrical grid, it's very extensive. Our homes are heavily electricity dependent and have very extensive/heavy duty electrical systems in them compared to other places in the world. Changes to them are hard. The 110V stuff is just lights and outlets, big stuff is all 240V.

Heating and cooling are also major loads that most of Europe doesn't have. Large chunks of the country need both massive heating and cooling systems based on the seasons. Few parts of the country is not having AC realistic. And only maybe Hawaii, Puerto Rico might get away without heat. Electric Air Source Heat Pumps are becoming much more common across the country for heating/cooling.

Also now we get into EV cars, there is another 50-60A 240V load.

 
What I think Alex is referring to, is pretty much a single circuit - long after what is actually supplied to the house (and probably split over 3 phases) by the utility.

At least, that is what is done in Germany. Do not generalize "Europe" when it comes to electricity/code.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 
Bert Vanderveen said:
In my part of the world (where Alex also resides) there are no overhead electricity lines, except high voltage. Everything is underground, even in rural areas. We have to use two parties to get electricity: one firm is responsible for bringing the lines to your home or business. There are a few of those, all active in certain areas (mostly a couple of provinces). They charge for delivery and rental of the meter.
Then there are the 'energy brokers' — there are quite a few of them. And they are available everywhere. Some market themselves on being green, others on being cheap. They are really competitive and good deals can be had when you switch between them. They charge by the kW/hr and also take in all applicable taxes (of which there are quite a few). Most also do natural gas, which is still the most used product for heating and hot water in Holland.

Everything inhouse is subject to code, as in most civilised countries. But in the Netherlands there is one code for all, depending on whether you are a home owner/renter or business. Everything is house has to be in conduits. PVC and ABS are omnipresent. In some cases other conduitmaterial may be used. We only use solid copper wiring.
I do not know if this is still current, but there used to be two ways to do wiring: Centralized (which is with boxes that fork aof to receptables etc., and looped — more ore less you Americans do it. BUT: in Holland not every line has a breaker. We group rooms and machines, to use a common breaker. In my home I have to breakerhousings (had to do with division into home and business). Both have six or seven breakers. There is also a main cut off /breaker.

New developments and such are underground, but older neighborhoods are above ground.  Rural areas are a mix, it is slowly moving underground as less issues of damage in a remote area when underground. Things vary by state, they each have a board which oversees the utility companies, and have different laws.  In general, your bill is 2 parts. Generation and Transmission. In some states you can pick your Generation company separate from transmission. You have no real option when it comes to who connects to your house, there are never 2 companies with wires to your home. Thus your only option if the service is bad, is to go off grid.  So in general, it sound more or less the same as what you describe.

In the US, the wiring practices in houses in probably the most unified part of building code.  While some states have their own code, most code in states in going to IBC (international building code), which covers all forms of buildings, they make a subset of it called IRC (international residential code), which just removes everything that doesn't apply to a home as things needed for a skyscrapper or manufacturing plant may not apply to a 2 story home. This code calls out other codes for some things, such as electrical. Electrical in all codes in the US goes to NEC (National Electrical Code). If covers everything that uses electricity. From a small home, the a massive industrial plant. It's all one mega code. The building codes of Canada are more or less identical to the US codes. Any construction in the US, done by professional, or done by homeowner is subject to this code (even if someone things it doesn't apply to them, it does).

Ring buses would be illegal in the US. Houses have a main breaker that will shut everything down, and then every circuit has a breaker. What is on that circuit could be any combination of things.  Ideally, every room/zone of a house would have 2 circuits, one for plugs, one for lights. But that rarely happens.  Things get lumped together, a room may get feed from a 15A circuit, near the door, it splits with a branch doing the plugs, and another branch going to the light switch and then to the light.  Some stuff is defined as being on it's own. Bathrooms need a dedicated 20A GFCI circuit for each bath.  Kitchens have many circuits.  Two 20a countertop plug circuits, 1 dishwasher circuit, 1 fridge circuit, lights are often on their own, then assuming electric cooking, you would have 2 more 240V ~50amp circuits for those items. So you could have 7 circuits just in a kitchen.  240V stuff is almost always single device stuff (furnace, heat, AC, washers, dryers, etc).

A standard full size main panel in a house is 200A, with 40 breaker spaces. Keep in mind anything 240V takes 2 breakers, so the kitchen above would use 9 spaces.  You can fill such a panel very fast.  If you run out, you put a 240V (double pole) breaker in it and install a sub panel, often 100A, 20-30 spaces.  Older homes with just 100A, 20breaker panels run into problems on upgrades as there is no place to add circuits, and they can't easily support 240V appliances because of space limits.

As was mentioned, we assume not everything is on at once, otherwise a panel with 40 breakers, all 15A, would need to be 600A.

One thing that jumps out watching film and tv filmed in Europe is how there are no outlets anyplace. In the US, you are never more than 6ft/2m/1(social distancing) from an outlet in basically any room/hallway/etc by code.  You known when you are watching stuff from Europe because you don't see outlets anyplace. Do folks run extension cords for everything? We have switches at almost every doorway, plugs all over the places, often because code dictates you have them pretty much everyplace.  I would guess on some levels this is a result of a large number of buildings being pre-electricity, so code has never pushed for rules that would make such extensive wiring required.
 
six-point socket II said:
What I think Alex is referring to, is pretty much a single circuit - long after what is actually supplied to the house (and probably split over 3 phases) by the utility.

At least, that is what is done in Germany. Do not generalize "Europe" when it comes to electricity/code.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Agree on not generalizing "Europe", but it's a bit difficult especially from the outside. Just like I wouldn't expect someone from "Europe" to separate our different US states from the whole.  There isn't a great alt way to define things.  Alex being from the Netherlands probably wouldn't want to see a survey of Americans when asked to point to "the Netherlands" on a map *cringe*.

While your region of the world is famous for things like the multiple electrical plugs for each country, some of the basics of the electrical look to be fairly standardized with all the countries agreeing to unifying voltages, wiring color codes, etc.  Some of it is a mystery to me, like which countries send 3phase right to homes and which don't. It's rather hard to find details of wiring practices in Europe from N.America.
 
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