Want but can't afford a Kapex, any suggestions?

[mlfaber]

wood pulp,
think about this....$1300 divided by 12 months =$108 per month.  $108 divided by 4 weeks = $27 a week. 
Can you save $54 a week for 6 months?  (don't forget the taxes)
How much money a week do you spend on coffee?  I stopped buying $3 coffee and saved $21 a week!
Every time I went shopping for things I check in with myself and asked myself "do I really need this?"
I have a lot of will power and self control.  So for my first festool purchase I cut back on a lot of junk I
was wasting my money on.  My first Festool purchase was $1500.  I wanted to save $63 a week for the
6 month plan I had for myself.  After 4 months I had the tools I wanted and I don't drink as much coffee  [big grin].
It's a great practice I have for myself and my festool fetish. 
I'm like you, a  hobbiest but it's slowly turning into a career, and I can afford the tools that I want.  But  for me
saving for what I want also give me time to think about the tool and do more research on it.
Gool luck!  hope you find a way to get what you want.
Eric

Eric,

I totally agree with your logic.  As it turns out my mortgage company is going to buy me a Kapex.  I just received a letter that for the next year my payment is dropping to the tune of $110.00/mo.  110x12mo=$1320.00  [laughing]  I do think this, and all Festool, is worth the money, I am just cautious about large purchases.  Thanks for all the feedback to everyone.  If I was a betting man, I would say I will most likely end up with a Kapex in the future.

What does everyone do for the accessories.  I.E. stand, supports, etc?

Marc

 

[mlfaber]

There is one thing that keeps me from buying any other miter saw and keeps the Kapex at the top of the list even though it is WAY over my budget. Dust collection. I have a basement shop and while I want to protect myself, I think about dust going everywhere including upstairs for my wife. My current POS Hitachi is the biggest dust generator in the shop. Cleaning up after it is a real chore. Same think with every other miter saw.

All the other factors of the competing saws at half the price are becoming less important than dust. I don't worry about weight or size of the Milwaukee or Bosch, but what about dust? Either may clean and square, but again, what about dust? Each may or may not have a good fence, but what about dust? Lasers might be there or not, but what about dust? Having less space behind the saw, okay, that's nice, but what about dust?

I don't know if I am an oddball in the world of tool marketing, but if any other saw demonstrated as serious an approach to dust collection as Festool, I would buy it in a heartbeat, even if it were $700 - $800. People say the Bosch does this, but the opinions and demonstrations are few and seem to disagree. I need to know for sure.

Funny you talk about this because I just made a few rip cuts with my TS55 in some Cherry.  Because it is so nice out, and there were only two cuts I did not bother with the Dust Extractor.  WHAT A MESS!  I got so used to the fantastic DC, that I forgot what a mess it made without.  I won't do that again, even outside!

 

[Julian Tracy]

Here's a tip to cutting outside with the TS55 without a vac.  Bosch's planer dust bag is a square, wired framed deal and fits the TS55 perfectly.  Probably gets about 75% of the dust - handy even when you're oustide.

JT

 

[Timtool]

you can always try to find a used one, i got mine from a woodshop who bought a new one at the end of last year to make expenses, and sold their 2 year old one.
i still payed €900 for it,

it's a nice saw, but it's got some issues.
i bought it for the space it saves at the rear, looking back im happy that i didn't pay the full retail price because i don't think it's worth that much money.

 

[nehardwoodfloors]

+1 for messed up 1016l!
Bought one and tried several different blades. Nope that thing cut worse then my cheap dew alt 10"!
I loved everything about it though. Had it set up with double lasers. But the cut was rough. Lots of tearout and took too much effort to get the blade through the wood.

So I ordered myself an ls0714. From what ive read, can't lose with that baby!

 

[billg71]

Personally, I have a classic love/hate relationship with my Kapex: I love it for the dust collection(I work in a small basement shop) but, for whatever reason, just can't get the hang of the ergonomics of the saw. I can't say exactly what it is but I'm just not comfortable with it. I've used at least a dozen different chop saws and sliders when I cut wood for a living and never had this problem. There's just something about the way the Kapex handles that I just don't get on with...

Maybe it's that I used to make a few hundred cuts a day and it didn't take long to get up close and personal with a new saw. I haven't made a hundred cuts with the Kapex in the 6 months or so I've had it, maybe I'll grow into it...(I hope so, I have to trim my basement this Spring)

But the DC works better than anything I've run across short of building a box around the saw and hooking it up to a real shop DC unit. I was at the Woodworking Show the other weekend, wandered past the Bosch area and just couldn't help but to drag out the iPhone and snap this:

[attachthumb=#]

Not exactly the greatest advert for dust collection I've seen, going to stick with the Kapex for a while yet and try to get better acquainted.

Just my experience, YMMV...

Bill

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Bill, that's Bosch's older external dust collector.  It's meant to statically collect saw dust on it's exterior surfaces.  [wink] ...and bagless operation.

 

[billg71]

External static collection, bagless, I feel SO stupid...  [blink]
How could I have missed that?  [wink]

Living in shame for the rest of my days,
Bill

 

[Dongar]

Deke I have the Milwaukee 12" saw. I bought it before Milwaukee had a vacuum adapter for it and it had the best dust pick up of any saw I had ever used without vacuum. Meaning the bag actually collected dust and had to be emptied occasionally. I would guess 60 to 70% collection. I wanted better collection so I found a rubber round gutter leader to 4" pipe adapter at Home depot. I also picked up a dryer hose clamp set that had wing nuts for tool less installation and removal. Originally I just stuffed the 50 mm hose from my boom arm into the adapter and clamped it with a hose clamp. I estimate the pick up was around 95% when hooked up to my dust extractor. Once I decided I liked the setup I wanted a quicker way to switch between the Milwaukee and the boom arm. My locale Festool dealer had a dust collector fitting that fit in the leader adapter and allows for an easy push fit connection.I am really happy with my current setup. my miter saw sits right behind one of my MFTs , my dust extractor sits below it and I can reach from either side to switch the hose. I have a 3-way splitter plugged into the extractor so I don't have to switch the cords. Milwaukee has since come out with an adapter but it drops down to around a 1.5" opening which would cut the air flow down quite a lot especially since the reason the dust collection seems to work so well (IMO) is the large size of the collector and dust chute. I think all three parts cost around $12 which I think is less then Milwaukee's adapter.The only disadvantage of this saw is the lack of a laser which does slow things down on certain cuts (like crown where the blade hits in the center of the molding first instead of the edge where the length is marked. I am thinking of ordering a laserkerf? to add to the saw. This projects a laser line the exact thickness of the blade onto the work. I think I would like this even better then the double lasers. I think it cost around $70. Maybe for the next crown job. I will post some pictures below.
Don[attachimg=#][attachimg=#]

 

[tiralie]

Personally, I have a classic love/hate relationship with my Kapex: I love it for the dust collection(I work in a small basement shop) but, for whatever reason, just can't get the hang of the ergonomics of the saw.

Same here, well I did until I got a MFT/3 Kapex for it.
When I put the saw on the regular MFT/3 the height was a problem, it just felt awkward to cut with.
Tim

 

[Timtool]

some of the issues i have with my Kapex are;
the knob to turn on the lasers is placed on the rear of the engine! still need to feel around and oftenly bend around the saw to find it.
as has been posted elsewhere by other users, mine has the lowering bearing problem also, a little bearing gets stuck and the saw becomes hard to lower, verry annoying. some lubricant on the bearing solves it temporarely.
as the woodwhisperer's safety Kapex video tried to imply without really saying it, is that the saw is almost dangerous at rough length cutting of rough wood. wich is actually 90% of what mine is supposed to do.
if your wood isn't perfectly straight and touching the fence on both sides, then the saw has a tendancy to jump up and fly towards you with violence, never had this on any other saw. the clamp use is obligatory on this saw, on the saws i used before there was no need for clamps to hold the wood.
the controlls are scattered all around the saw with not always a clear indication of their use, requires some fiddeling around.

if you are a festool fan, then i guess you should have the Kapex, but don't mistake "most expensive saw in the world" with " best saw in the world" it may be the best in the world for those who do crown mouldings, complex final cuts or indoor jobsite cuts with DC. but for me, with my european sliding tablesaw i can make better final cuts on that and complex angled cuts aswell. my Kapex mostly serves for rough length cuts, and it doesn't really excell at that!

 

[ccarrolladams]

By the time Festool introduced Kapex in Europe over the decades I owned in excess of 25 different radial arm and miter saws, some sliding compound bevel. The day I first used a Kapex during a trip to Germany I had two different SCMS in my condo. Together they cost less than the expected price in the USA.

Yet for me it was no question. The SCMS I already owned appeared to have been designed for construction framers. I am sure the cut quality and accuracy of setting was better than necessary for framing. My problem with those other saws was that the cut quality and accuracy was not enough for fine furniture and cabinet making.

I crunched the numbers during the wait before I could even place a pre-order.

My finding was that on a typical day when I was making critical parts from hard wood, at wholesale I spent more for the wood than the retail price of a Kapex. My investment in the Kapex would pay out over years.

The fact is the equipment we use in woodworking is expensive. So is the raw material we use. Our time is also valuable.

Each of us has to crunch the numbers and make the choice. In some cases perhaps the Kapex is not appropriate. When I need to cross cut 2x4 or 4x4 I use other saws. A Kapex can cut a 4x4 in two passes, but the result is hardly a glue ready cut. My 18" RA saw makes a better cut in 4" thick material. Oh yes, that RA saw cost me more than 3 Kapex.

 

[billg71]

Same here, well I did until I got a MFT/3 Kapex for it.
When I put the saw on the regular MFT/3 the height was a problem, it just felt awkward to cut with.
Tim

Tim,

Wish that was it but I've got it on a rolling stand and the bed is about 35-5/8" AFF, just a tad higher than the MFT-3. I'm 5'8 and I have to raise my forearm above my shoulder to grip the handle and pull the trigger, that's one reason it's uncomfortable. Another factor is the location of the thumb safety, having it on top only adds to the awkwardness. It'd be a lot more comfortable if it were on the side like on the routers.

I'm going to mess around with a lower stand, build in some table extensions instead of relying on the MFT/bench/table saw for stock support and maybe pin the thumb safety, see how it works out. I sure wish Festool had designed the saw with a horizontal grip...  [sad]

Thanks for the suggestion,
Bill

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Bill,

I'm not sure if you're doing it this way or not, so I'll just mention it.  I believe it was Gary Katz that showed me this.  Sorry that I don't recall exactly, but that's really not that important.  When grasping the Kapex's handle, leave your index finger pointing straight out the whole time during use.  That changes your hand grip to a more comfortable movement from fully up position through fully down in the cut position.  Your wrist is what's actually changing doing it that way.

 

[Deke]

Dongar, thanks for the information! I think this is really the only other saw on my list and I would really like to use an extra $700 for some hand planes and a few other things. Sorry Festool, but if I have an alternative, I will go for it. However, I do realize the Kapex is unique and why.

 

[mlfaber]

Ok, here it is...  I got a Kapex!!  This past weekend someone in my area posted a very lightly used Kapex, Mft Kapex, and crown stops on CL.  I jumped on it and it looks as if it has mabe a dozen cuts on it.  I verified the ownership and purchase dates with Festool (still in first year of warranty)!  Can't wait to put this through the paces.  In fact, I will be going thru the Lebanon, IN area in a few weeks and am thinking about taking it in just to have it checked over from the experts, besides is there a better excuse to go to Mecca??  Is there anything I should be aware of being a new Kapex owner?  By the way, this Blog is great!!  The level of expertise and info is priceless, thanks to all.

Marc

 

[Timtool]

hey thats's great news for you!
all i can say is check the accuracy and adjust where neccesary. it will get you accustomed with the at first sight rather complex controls.
and also preventively lubricate that little bearing behind the saw head on wich the lowering mechanism slides, do it every few weeks or months and will keep the lowering action smooth!

 

[mlfaber]

hey thats's great news for you!
all i can say is check the accuracy and adjust where neccesary. it will get you accustomed with the at first sight rather complex controls.
and also preventively lubricate that little bearing behind the saw head on wich the lowering mechanism slides, do it every few weeks or months and will keep the lowering action smooth!

It was a great deal, and maybe a little fate!  The previous owner had it for about 6 months and with very little use, ended up regretting the purchase. it feel like it could use a little lube in the head/spring mechanism and as well as the rails.  Any suggestions for the type of lubrication used?  I was thinking a little dry lube spray in the spring area and maybe a lite machine oil on the rails??? 

 

[Dan1210]

Im really thinking about one of these saws but it seems to have a few issues, mostly great reviews but a fair few criticisms too, i guess some of it is what your used and if your willing to change to accomodate it, but some of the mechanical issues are off putting, my dewalt is heavy and isnt too accurate, but its comfortable to use, easy to use and doesnt need constant service.

 

[Guy Ashley]

Dan

Dont forget Festool UK are now doing the 30 day return if not satisfied system that has been going in the US for a long time.

I have just sold my DW718 and it was a good workhorse but the mobility of the Kapex with the UG stand did it for me.

No regrets.