Washing Machines

[squall_line]

Near boiling, are you sure of that? I've turned our gas hot water heater up to the max and at a tap right next to the heater it was around 156, if memory serves. Recommended tap temp is somewhere around 126F.

Packard has previously written about how his hot water is heated with the system that I believe also heats the boiler that is used to heat his house, without any sort of anti-scald measures in place.  It still gives me the willies to think about it, but I can't say I'd do any differently if I didn't have kids to worry about and the retrofit was as onerous as it is.

 

[Cheese]

Packard has previously written about how his hot water is heated with the system that I believe also heats the boiler that is used to heat his house, without any sort of anti-scald measures in place.  It still gives me the willies to think about it, but I can't say I'd do any differently if I didn't have kids to worry about and the retrofit was as onerous as it is.

We no longer have children at home but one of the best moves I made was to replace the traditional "dumb" gas water heater with a Rinnai tankless water heater. Besides the obvious energy savings and also the lack of temperature swings when taking a shower and the dishwasher or clothes washer suddenly starts, the Rinnai water temperature can be easily controlled in 1º increments. I've set the Rinnai at 120º in the basement and with suitable foam insulation surrounding the copper plumbing lines, the water temperature delivered throughout the house is always 118º - 119º. That's both kid safe and old folk safe.  [smile]

I also installed a hot/cold water faucet outside to wash the dogs in the summer and when running 100' of vinyl hose on the cold ground, the water temps will dip. In that case, I go downstairs, dial the Rinnai up to 135º and we're good to go. After the dog baths are completed, the temp is dialed back to 120º and that takes all of 10 seconds.

Truly...one of the best investments/installations I've made. I'd consider it to be a better investment than the first Festool TS 55 track saw I purchased.  [eek]

 

[tjbnwi]

When we sold our home in Indiana we left behind the Maytag Neptune washer and dryer we purchased in 1994. I had to replace the drive motor on the washer once, door/drum seal once, belt and rollers on the dryer once. As far as I know they are still going strong today.

The home we bought 2 years ago came with the oringinal Kenmore appliances from 2000. I had to replace the oven bake element, other than that they’re still going strong. My wife wanted a new refrigerator there is a new KA in the kitchen, the Kenmore is in the garage.

Tom

 

[kevinculle]

I nursed along a mid-90s pair of Maytag Neptunes for about 25 years, as I recall the dryer was trouble free and the washer needed several controls related repairs, a bearing and a new door seal.  We replaced those with a pair of Electrolux front loaders in 2019 and those have been completely trouble free, other than the washer needing occasional door gasket cleaning that seems unavoidable on front loaders.  My wife is 5'-0" and at our age can no longer contend with top loaders, I'm 6'-4" but in a stroke of early married brilliance I shrunk one of her prized sweaters down to Barbie doll size and was forever banished from the laundry except when machine repairs are needed.

 

[luvmytoolz]

"in a stroke of early married brilliance I shrunk one of her prized sweaters down to Barbie doll size and was forever banished from the laundry except when machine repairs are needed"

Perfectly executed! ;-)

 

[Packard]

Near boiling, are you sure of that? I've turned our gas hot water heater up to the max and at a tap right next to the heater it was around 156, if memory serves. Recommended tap temp is somewhere around 126F.

Packard has previously written about how his hot water is heated with the system that I believe also heats the boiler that is used to heat his house, without any sort of anti-scald measures in place.  It still gives me the willies to think about it, but I can't say I'd do any differently if I didn't have kids to worry about and the retrofit was as onerous as it is.

I will look to see what temperature range my old darkroom thermometer can read.  Otherwise I don’t think I have a thermometer that can measure 150 to 200 degrees F.

I do like that hot water from the tap takes less than a minute to boil for my pour over coffee.  Pour over coffee is supposed to be brewed at 190 F.  (But, brewing coffee from hot water that has come directly from the tap seems very wrong to me.)

 

[Sparktrician]

When I bought my current home in '08, there was a really crappy electric water heater that I replaced in '10 with a Rheem Marathon water heater.  It's set to max out at 120°.  It's been perfect all the way.  That plastic tank will not rust out the way the previous heater did.  [smile]

 

[rst]

My Rheem gas hot water heater just passed 18 years. I plan on replacing it with a Rennai when it finally gives up the tank.

 

[Packard]

I really don’t know what “sani-cycle” means.  For me, it means that the dishes dry faster. 

My hot water comes out of the tap near boiling temperature and is something I have to be careful with.  I know there are fixes for it, but the hot water offers some advantages that I don’t want to give up.

Eliminating the sand-cycle shortens the cleaning cycle to around 2 hours.  Certainly not 90 seconds or 180 seconds that the commercial restaurant units offer. 

I think the bar glasses are cleaned with really hot water as they unload the machine holding onto a plastic carrier. 

In any event, why so much longer for the home washer?  I’ve seen articles about deluxe kitchens with two dishwashers.  Why not one only that cleans in 3 minutes?  I am missing something in this whole process.

You previously wrote "(including the super hot “sand-cycle”."

I'm assuming sand-cycle is a mistype and is supposed to be sani, as in sanitizing cycle. If so, that means the water is heated to a temperature of, IIRC, 165F or higher. The dishes dry faster because the heated water, thus the heated dishes, have water evaporating off them quicker.

Near boiling, are you sure of that? I've turned our gas hot water heater up to the max and at a tap right next to the heater it was around 156, if memory serves. Recommended tap temp is somewhere around 126F.

Unless you're doing a quick rinse, your washer is going through at least two cycles. First is a pre-rinse and second is the main cycle. That second cycle takes a while.

Technology Connections on YouTube has done a really good video on dish washers and the various cycles. This is his first; there are newer ones.

My computer has been “upgraded” to an A.I. spell checker that frequently changes properly spelled words for different words entirely.

‘Sand” cycle was originally “sani-cycle” (which it just now changed to “sand”.).  I have to proof read every line now.  I wonder if there is any way to turn off the AI function and go back to the old nuts and bolts spell checker. 

However, I don’t know if the spell checker resides in my operating system, software or even in the FOG software.  So I have no idea where to look.

When I first got a spell checker, I was concerned that it would make me a “lazy speller”.  But instead, it made me a better speller (if my spelling was the issue).  It did not improve typos, and it introduces a whole ‘nother layer of AI induced errors.

 

[Cheese]

My Rheem gas hot water heater just passed 18 years. I plan on replacing it with a Rennai when it finally gives up the tank.

I installed a new Rheem when we first purchased the house. We got just under 20 years of service from it before it started that "water dripping on the floor" problem. Get ready...you're getting close.  [smile]

 

[rst]

 

[Packard]

Near boiling, are you sure of that? I've turned our gas hot water heater up to the max and at a tap right next to the heater it was around 156, if memory serves. Recommended tap temp is somewhere around 126F.

Packard has previously written about how his hot water is heated with the system that I believe also heats the boiler that is used to heat his house, without any sort of anti-scald measures in place.  It still gives me the willies to think about it, but I can't say I'd do any differently if I didn't have kids to worry about and the retrofit was as onerous as it is.

If I interrupt the cycle in the first 5 minutes, nothing appears to be happening.  I have always assumed that the washer was heating the water to a higher temperature during the first 5 minutes.  I have no way of checking that though.

My highly accurate Kodak darkroom thermometer only goes up to 120 degrees, which makes sense because the acetate film will probably shed the emulsion at higher temperatures.

I ordered a cooking thermometer (waterproof) and it should arrive tomorrow.  It was $9.88, so I am financially invested in this thread. 

I will check my water temperature when it arrives.

 

[Packard]

My thermometer for hot water was delivered to my home a just now.  I will test it when I get home.

Addendum (thermometer arrived):  The water is not nearly as hot as I imagined it to be, but still in the “dangerous zone”.

Second try.  Lens fogged from the steam.

Third try:  Couldn’t get an image because of the steam, but 173.3F.

I don’t know what the max/min is on the thermostat.  I’m done with the thermometer, but the range could be a couple degrees hotter and a couple of degrees cooler at the ends of the range,

Meanwhile, I did some research on hot water scald injuries. Here is what I found, most from several sources.

This from a U.S. government agency (which might disappear soon):
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3605550/

Nationally, about 1,500 people per year are hospitalized for scalding.  It is more likely to occur for renters than home owners.

Human exposure to hot water @ 140 F, will need hospitalization after exposure of 3 seconds; at 120 F, the same result will happen at 10 minutes.

The Consumer Products Safety Commission recommends 120F as the top temperature for water heaters.

From other online sources 112F (2 sources) 113F (1 source) was listed as the maximum safe shower temperature.

I am fairly certain that I have been living dangerously.  The thermometer will tell me how dangerously I’ve been living.

Also listed was hot bathes.  They are far more dangerous because the water will cover a really large portion of a person’s (especially a child’s) body.

To be continued . . .

Oh, and I checked my FOG profile this afternoon and I see I joined FOG on March 15, 2020.  So this is my 5 year anniversary.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I have always kept mine at the minimal end of the scale, somewhere around the 1 hundred teens?
I just prefer to have it where I can turn on the hot only, and use it that way. It wouldn't be great for extremely long showers, since you are introducing cold water into an already lower temperature tank. It works for me though

 

[leakyroof]

Although the OP has sorted out their Appliance issue, I agree with the thoughts about newer machines not lasting as long.
Our Maytag Neptune pair, Gas dryer Front Loader, and Washer , Front loader, have only needed repairs on the Dryer side.
I replaced the roller set, belt, seal, on the Dryer a year or two ago. They're from the later 90s, early 2000s, so we've gotten our moneys worth from them.
The washer has only gotten a new set of feed hoses, just as preventative maintenance.  We leave the door open on it for a day or so after doing a load. Dries out the interior and we don't need any smell treatments like we did before we started doing the Open Door trick.

Bosch Dishwasher, that one worked, and worked, until it needed lots of attention. And was not easy to work on compared to the Dryer... [sad] [sad]
First repair was the known issue of the door spring system breaking.  That was easy.
Some years later it started dumping water, so after I pulled it and inspected it, almost $700s in parts was installed for various issues. If the motor goes next, that's all the money we'll put into it. The internals are tightly packed, and a bit fragile in design for some systems. And definitely a case of you having to pull multiple things apart that are joined together to get to one assembly in the mix for R&R. So, while you're in there......  [wink]

It's super quiet, it's super efficient on cleaning all the dishes we throw at it, but repair costs have hit the 3/4 cost of a new one, so we would just replace it.

 

[Packard]

Although the OP has sorted out their Appliance issue, I agree with the thoughts about newer machines not lasting as long.
Our Maytag Neptune pair, Gas dryer Front Loader, and Washer , Front loader, have only needed repairs on the Dryer side.
I replaced the roller set, belt, seal, on the Dryer a year or two ago. They're from the later 90s, early 2000s, so we've gotten our moneys worth from them.
The washer has only gotten a new set of feed hoses, just as preventative maintenance.  We leave the door open on it for a day or so after doing a load. Dries out the interior and we don't need any smell treatments like we did before we started doing the Open Door trick.

Bosch Dishwasher, that one worked, and worked, until it needed lots of attention. And was not easy to work on compared to the Dryer... [sad] [sad]
First repair was the known issue of the door spring system breaking.  That was easy.
Some years later it started dumping water, so after I pulled it and inspected it, almost $700s in parts was installed for various issues. If the motor goes next, that's all the money we'll put into it. The internals are tightly packed, and a bit fragile in design for some systems. And definitely a case of you having to pull multiple things apart that are joined together to get to one assembly in the mix for R&R. So, while you're in there......  [wink]

It's super quiet, it's super efficient on cleaning all the dishes we throw at it, but repair costs have hit the 3/4 cost of a new one, so we would just replace it.

I have a Bosch, and I agree it is very quiet.  I was surprised when I first used it to see a red light aimed at the floor to indicate it was in the cleaning cycle.  Without that red light, I would never know if it was running or not.

Amusingly, the final end of civility between me and my sister-in-law was over a dishwasher. 

I was at my brother’s house and there was a magnet on the dishwasher that indicated “clean” or “dirty” for the dishes inside. 

I asked my brother, “What’s that for?”  And he replied, “So we know if the dishes are clean or dirty.”

I said, Really?  I look at the soap dispenser.  If the dispenser is empty, the dishes are clean.  I put in soap before I load any dishes.  So if the dispenser is full, the dishes are dirty.”

He said, “So we wasted $5.00 on the magnet?”

“I guess so.”

My sister-in-law, who apparently purchased the magnet was standing behind me.  It was not my intention to insult her, but that was the end of civility between us.  She became aggressively hostile.

The last time I visited, I checked into a nearby hotel rather than stay at their house.  I’m sure that did not improve our relationship any.

 

[leakyroof]

Although the OP has sorted out their Appliance issue, I agree with the thoughts about newer machines not lasting as long.
Our Maytag Neptune pair, Gas dryer Front Loader, and Washer , Front loader, have only needed repairs on the Dryer side.
I replaced the roller set, belt, seal, on the Dryer a year or two ago. They're from the later 90s, early 2000s, so we've gotten our moneys worth from them.
The washer has only gotten a new set of feed hoses, just as preventative maintenance.  We leave the door open on it for a day or so after doing a load. Dries out the interior and we don't need any smell treatments like we did before we started doing the Open Door trick.

Bosch Dishwasher, that one worked, and worked, until it needed lots of attention. And was not easy to work on compared to the Dryer... [sad] [sad]
First repair was the known issue of the door spring system breaking.  That was easy.
Some years later it started dumping water, so after I pulled it and inspected it, almost $700s in parts was installed for various issues. If the motor goes next, that's all the money we'll put into it. The internals are tightly packed, and a bit fragile in design for some systems. And definitely a case of you having to pull multiple things apart that are joined together to get to one assembly in the mix for R&R. So, while you're in there......  [wink]

It's super quiet, it's super efficient on cleaning all the dishes we throw at it, but repair costs have hit the 3/4 cost of a new one, so we would just replace it.

I have a Bosch, and I agree it is very quiet.  I was surprised when I first used it to see a red light aimed at the floor to indicate it was in the cleaning cycle.  Without that red light, I would never know if it was running or not.

Amusingly, the final end of civility between me and my sister-in-law was over a dishwasher. 

I was at my brother’s house and there was a magnet on the dishwasher that indicated “clean” or “dirty” for the dishes inside. 

I asked my brother, “What’s that for?”  And he replied, “So we know if the dishes are clean or dirty.”

I said, “Really?  I look at the soap dispenser.  If the dispenser is empty, the dishes are clean.  I put in soap before I load any dishes.  So if the dispenser is full, the dishes are dirty.”

He said, “So we wasted $5.00 on the magnet?”

“I guess so.”

My sister-in-law, who apparently purchased the magnet was standing behind me.  It was not my intention to insult her, but that was the end of civility between us.  She became aggressively hostile.

The last time I visited, I checked into a nearby hotel rather than stay at their house.  I’m sure that did not improve our relationship any.

  I don't mean to laugh, but geez, that's funny.  [big grin] [big grin]
And yes, the Red Light of Operation spooked our Cats for a few days until they got used to it. There were a few cautious paws thrown at that light in the evening when the Dishwasher was running... [embarassed] [big grin]

 

[Packard]

I’m sure that my Bosch was on sale at Lowes when I bought it.  It would have been near the lower priced dishwashers.

I do have one issue with mine. There is some sort of timing device that opens the drain to allow the water to drain out.

That valve frequently closes too soon and there is about 1/4” of water sitting on the bottom when I empty it.  Sometimes it self-corrects and fully empties, but then it goes back to its bad habits again.

At some point, I expect that not enough water will drian out and it will flood the kitchen when I open the door.  At that time, I will call for service.  It has been about 2 years since it started up and about 2 months since its last self-correction. 

But the dishes are always uniformity clean when the cycle is done.  I would not be opposed to buying another Bosch when this one dies.

 

[leakyroof]

I’m sure that my Bosch was on sale at Lowes when I bought it.  It would have been near the lower priced dishwashers.

I do have one issue with mine. There is some sort of timing device that opens the drain to allow the water to drain out.

That valve frequently closes too soon and there is about 1/4” of water sitting on the bottom when I empty it.  Sometimes it self-corrects and fully empties, but then it goes back to its bad habits again.

At some point, I expect that not enough water will drian out and it will flood the kitchen when I open the door.  At that time, I will call for service.  It has been about 2 years since it started up and about 2 months since its last self-correction. 

But the dishes are always uniformity clean when the cycle is done.  I would not be opposed to buying another Bosch when this one dies.

  Is the machine setting any error codes when it screws up?  We would have water drainage issues, and I learned how to go below the filter that's on the bottom of the machine's interior floor, to access the  drain pump inlet.  There are YouTube videos on this.
You remove the big filter assembly with that twist of the knob, pull that out, then down in the middle, you have a plastic contoured piece that you gently pop out. You then look for debris at the pump's 'cup' of sorts with that plastic guide piece out of your way.
Food, bone, or anything that the pump can't get out of the washer interior , can get lodged there. We once had several trying times getting a stainless chain and pieces that had fallen off a Tea Infuser Ball that my Wife washed in the machine.
It got passed the main filter somehow, and ended up jamming the pump or obstructing it. Since there was more than one piece, it took a couple of cycles for it to reappear at the Pump inlet.

Other pieces to the puzzle for drainage, obstruction on the drainage hose itself, or is it pinched somehow in the cabinet as it goes to your drain pipe under the sink.
Ours is plumbed to the Garbage Disposal, so keeping that clean and clear is job 1

 

[Packard]

I’ll see if I can figure that out. 

I have removed the top grill and fished around for obstructions, but I have not disassembled anything.

I will give it a go when my back is feeling a little better.