Water based clear coat?
- Thread starter nate858
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Nate,
I was a long time user and distrubtor of Fuhr Intl finishes. They have an excellent product line with some of the best WB finishes on the market. That not withstanding, before I used them I used a product from ML Campbell called UltraStar which I liked, but the Fuhr products where better in many respects. Campbell as recently introduced a new product called Agualente which is probably the best I've used thus far.
I was a long time user and distrubtor of Fuhr Intl finishes. They have an excellent product line with some of the best WB finishes on the market. That not withstanding, before I used them I used a product from ML Campbell called UltraStar which I liked, but the Fuhr products where better in many respects. Campbell as recently introduced a new product called Agualente which is probably the best I've used thus far.
Hi Joe,
One of my suppliers caries ML. Campbell I have not tried it yet. I use Valspar Inviro plus, I like it, but I find when I use it a top very dark stains, there seems to be a faint purple haze. I usually use Valspar with their water based stains, but it seems I get better results when I used oil based stains, like Becker Acroma.
How do the products you mentioned react in the conditions I described? simply put, does it look good on dark stains?
Mirko
One of my suppliers caries ML. Campbell I have not tried it yet. I use Valspar Inviro plus, I like it, but I find when I use it a top very dark stains, there seems to be a faint purple haze. I usually use Valspar with their water based stains, but it seems I get better results when I used oil based stains, like Becker Acroma.
How do the products you mentioned react in the conditions I described? simply put, does it look good on dark stains?
Mirko
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Mirko,
Traditionally just about ever WB finish had the dreaded "bluish case" to it, it was a big problem in the beginning. Fuhr and UltraStar had a bit of a case as well, but the Fuhr 355 had a bit more. Their 250 line was very nice and had almost none. The new AGUALENTE has the best finish I've seen being most like a lacquer.
This is some MLC traditionally mahogany under Agualente.
Here are some legs as well.
Traditionally just about ever WB finish had the dreaded "bluish case" to it, it was a big problem in the beginning. Fuhr and UltraStar had a bit of a case as well, but the Fuhr 355 had a bit more. Their 250 line was very nice and had almost none. The new AGUALENTE has the best finish I've seen being most like a lacquer.
This is some MLC traditionally mahogany under Agualente.
Here are some legs as well.
Hey Joe,
the pics didn't show.
I strive to give my customers the best product, frequently they applaud when I explain my finishes are safe for the environment.
Now, waterborne product have there issues, I've had a dozen accounts where I nearly quit and resort back to traditional Lacquer.
I need to keep using the waterborne products, because I believe in it, and believe it will surpass Oil-base lacquer in quality and ease of use.
Unfortunately I have not found that product yet.
See if you can fix them pictures, and I will give that ML Campbell product a go.
Mirko
the pics didn't show.
I strive to give my customers the best product, frequently they applaud when I explain my finishes are safe for the environment.
Now, waterborne product have there issues, I've had a dozen accounts where I nearly quit and resort back to traditional Lacquer.
I need to keep using the waterborne products, because I believe in it, and believe it will surpass Oil-base lacquer in quality and ease of use.
Unfortunately I have not found that product yet.
See if you can fix them pictures, and I will give that ML Campbell product a go.
Mirko
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Edit....
Opps Mirko,
Sorry about this, I'll re-post some new links to the pictures. I figured out what the problem is. :
Opps Mirko,
Sorry about this, I'll re-post some new links to the pictures. I figured out what the problem is. :
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Once again sorry about the links. Here are the pictures.
Joe,
I am new to spraying and just bought an Earlex 5000 HVLP. I am told the unit works pretty nicely even though only 2 stage nad inexpensive. It comes witgh a 2mm tip I believe. It was sugested to me to maybe go a little smaller on the tip for waterborne finishes. what I was wondering since the agualente is a little thicker, do you think the 2mm tip would work ok with it? Any other tips appreciated as well.
I am new to spraying and just bought an Earlex 5000 HVLP. I am told the unit works pretty nicely even though only 2 stage nad inexpensive. It comes witgh a 2mm tip I believe. It was sugested to me to maybe go a little smaller on the tip for waterborne finishes. what I was wondering since the agualente is a little thicker, do you think the 2mm tip would work ok with it? Any other tips appreciated as well.
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Wayne,
I remember seeing that setup over at the wood whispers site, Mark did I nice job on demo-ing it. I have a accuspray 230K and I use a 036 tip with either a #8 or #9 air cap and I have no problems spraying the Aqualente.
I'm sorry to admit that I don't know how that would translate into you setup. The best thing to do is just 'try it out" ;D You'd be amazed at how much you can learn from just experimenting with new things. I'm sure within no time you'll be spraying just like a pro.
I remember seeing that setup over at the wood whispers site, Mark did I nice job on demo-ing it. I have a accuspray 230K and I use a 036 tip with either a #8 or #9 air cap and I have no problems spraying the Aqualente.
I'm sorry to admit that I don't know how that would translate into you setup. The best thing to do is just 'try it out" ;D You'd be amazed at how much you can learn from just experimenting with new things. I'm sure within no time you'll be spraying just like a pro.
Hey thanks Joe for the vote of confidence. I called my dealer where I buy my tools. There paint department sells campbell but never heard of agualente. He's gonna call and see if he can order it in for me. Also, I was wondering about the glossiness. In another review, of target coatings, the writer suggests getting a step lower gloss than what you want. ie get satin if you want gloss or flat if you want satin. Is that typical of waterborne products or maybe just an idiosyncrasy of target coatings product?
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Wayne,
No trouble at all. The sheen issue is a hard one to discuss because it might be subjective. How a particular sheen appears to someone verses how it appears to someone else. I do a fair amount of kitchen cabinets and I like to use a stain finish myself. Once again I hate to say this, but it's something you are going to have to experiment with to see what you like.
One thing I do is I always apply 2 coats of gloss and then a coat of the sheen I want to have. Since a gloss coating has no flattening agents in it, it makes for a more durable finish.
No trouble at all. The sheen issue is a hard one to discuss because it might be subjective. How a particular sheen appears to someone verses how it appears to someone else. I do a fair amount of kitchen cabinets and I like to use a stain finish myself. Once again I hate to say this, but it's something you are going to have to experiment with to see what you like.
One thing I do is I always apply 2 coats of gloss and then a coat of the sheen I want to have. Since a gloss coating has no flattening agents in it, it makes for a more durable finish.
Wayne,
Here's my experience with WB: I bought a Wagner HVLP conversion gun which is a unit that will allow high velocity low pressure from a conventional compressor. You set your compressor to about 45 psi and the gun to around 15-20 psi before pulling the trigger. I shot over a gallon of Minwax polycrylic on my entertainment center and got a very nice finish with a warm glow to it. The finish was satin, not semi gloss. The issue I had was not getting good atomization on my first attempts. I either got a dry finish or a lot of orange peel. After thinning the poly 10%, the finish shot much better and I pretty much eliminated the dry finish and orange peel.
Do you spray the Aqualente undiluted? Bear in mind that the Earlex is only going to put out around 10 psi which may be taxed by thicker coatings.
Here is a post on another forum that mentions the product:
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Considering_Waterborne_Finishes.html
Here's my experience with WB: I bought a Wagner HVLP conversion gun which is a unit that will allow high velocity low pressure from a conventional compressor. You set your compressor to about 45 psi and the gun to around 15-20 psi before pulling the trigger. I shot over a gallon of Minwax polycrylic on my entertainment center and got a very nice finish with a warm glow to it. The finish was satin, not semi gloss. The issue I had was not getting good atomization on my first attempts. I either got a dry finish or a lot of orange peel. After thinning the poly 10%, the finish shot much better and I pretty much eliminated the dry finish and orange peel.
Do you spray the Aqualente undiluted? Bear in mind that the Earlex is only going to put out around 10 psi which may be taxed by thicker coatings.
Here is a post on another forum that mentions the product:
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Considering_Waterborne_Finishes.html
Dave Ronyak
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Joe Fusco said:
Joe,
I concur that the gloss coats are generally more durable (wear resistant). And in my limited experience with both solvent and WB finishes, a finish with more clarity and depth of color. I am not satisfied with many of the "spray it and foget it" finishes that I have seen, including some custom cabinets with catalyzed lacquer made for my home (not my own work), end up with a somewhat muddy look which somewhat hides the true character of the wood grain below the finish. I paid for solid cherry cabinets and got them, but the appearance and especially the clarity of the finish is a disappointment compared to items I have made of cherry using oild based stains followed by solvent based lacquer or polyurethane. My wife holds the same opinion and yearns for the finish that was on the cabinets I made for our previous house. Sometimes I prefer simply applying only gloss and thereafter hand rubbing to obtain the final degree of gloss v dullness that I desire.
Dave R.
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Dave,
That's a good point you brought up about clarity and is on an equal footing with durability. There can be other reasons for a muddy look of a finish as well and one is usually a glaze. Glazes do a great job of evening out tones and hues, but they do this at the cost of clarity. Second would be if you spray three coats of stain (which many places do) it's not going to be as clear as 2 coats of gloss and one coat of stain.
That's a good point you brought up about clarity and is on an equal footing with durability. There can be other reasons for a muddy look of a finish as well and one is usually a glaze. Glazes do a great job of evening out tones and hues, but they do this at the cost of clarity. Second would be if you spray three coats of stain (which many places do) it's not going to be as clear as 2 coats of gloss and one coat of stain.
EcoFurniture
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AFM safecoat has some really nice products!
I usually brush or wipe it on, works pretty good.
I usually brush or wipe it on, works pretty good.
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Mirko said:
Mirko, that sympton usually means the stain has not had time to cure. Five days is what was suggested and I never had time or patience for that.
Dave Ronyak
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Eiji,
I dunno. I have only used Target Coatings (Oxford brand) thus far, the shellac, vinyl sanding sealer and USLacquers in gloss and semi-gloss. No complaints about the performance of their products, and no problems spraying any of them. My only criticism is the apparent corrosivenes of some of the coating materials, as evidenced by their chemical action on the container, and the metal strainer screen I use on the fluid inlet of my spray gun. The screens are brass with galvanized steel tops and bottoms. If I leave the USL in the gun cup while waiting for the previously sprayed coating to dry enough so I can knock down any dust nibs (about 1 hour), the chemical reaction by then causes the USL in the cup to turn from white to blue. The cup is made of plastic and does not react with any of these coatings, none of them even adhere to the plasticl.
Are all water based coatings equally corrosive (alkaline)?
Dave R.
I dunno. I have only used Target Coatings (Oxford brand) thus far, the shellac, vinyl sanding sealer and USLacquers in gloss and semi-gloss. No complaints about the performance of their products, and no problems spraying any of them. My only criticism is the apparent corrosivenes of some of the coating materials, as evidenced by their chemical action on the container, and the metal strainer screen I use on the fluid inlet of my spray gun. The screens are brass with galvanized steel tops and bottoms. If I leave the USL in the gun cup while waiting for the previously sprayed coating to dry enough so I can knock down any dust nibs (about 1 hour), the chemical reaction by then causes the USL in the cup to turn from white to blue. The cup is made of plastic and does not react with any of these coatings, none of them even adhere to the plasticl.
Are all water based coatings equally corrosive (alkaline)?
Dave R.
jaegerhund
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wnagle said:
Wayne, ------ how has the Earlex worked out for you? Anybody else here with opinions on this sprayer?
Justin
