Well, the Mac went back...
- Thread starter Bob Marino
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Julian Tracy
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Jeesh Bob - you might as well start selling Ryobi's!
Sounds like the folks that fault Festool's because their too complicated to use, metric, etc. When we here know they're worth the xtra $$ and time spent figuring out how to use em.
Your $850 HP will be worth $35 in 8 months. A $1000 iMac would be worth $650 a year later and $450 two years later.
Welcome to viruses and hassles. Would have been worth the effort to get it ironed out...
They say that within 20 seconds of connecting to broadband, a new pc will be infected. I've used Macs since 99 with no virus software with no issues.
Takes two hands to count the number of times per week I get spam emails from friends and acquaintances who's computers have been infected and are sending spam through their email accounts. Takes another two hands to count the folks who complain about their computer's being slow or at the shop to be cleaned up and reset.
Why anyone would buy a PC I don't know...
Macs:
- no viruses
- high resale
- better hardware
- longevity of os/hardware compatibility
- better integration of os
- loaded with simple powerful apps
- better design, build
- did I say no viruses?
For you - compatibility with your warehousing network is key to your business, but for folks without those specific-type concerns, Macs are a better choice from any and all angles.
Julian
Sounds like the folks that fault Festool's because their too complicated to use, metric, etc. When we here know they're worth the xtra $$ and time spent figuring out how to use em.
Your $850 HP will be worth $35 in 8 months. A $1000 iMac would be worth $650 a year later and $450 two years later.
Welcome to viruses and hassles. Would have been worth the effort to get it ironed out...
They say that within 20 seconds of connecting to broadband, a new pc will be infected. I've used Macs since 99 with no virus software with no issues.
Takes two hands to count the number of times per week I get spam emails from friends and acquaintances who's computers have been infected and are sending spam through their email accounts. Takes another two hands to count the folks who complain about their computer's being slow or at the shop to be cleaned up and reset.
Why anyone would buy a PC I don't know...
Macs:
- no viruses
- high resale
- better hardware
- longevity of os/hardware compatibility
- better integration of os
- loaded with simple powerful apps
- better design, build
- did I say no viruses?
For you - compatibility with your warehousing network is key to your business, but for folks without those specific-type concerns, Macs are a better choice from any and all angles.
Julian
AlexThePalex
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Julian Tracy said:
Luckily 92% of the market does know .... [tongue]
Julian Tracy
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That's like suggesting all those folks buying Craftsman tools at Sears or the new Porter Cable cordless stuff at Lowes know better than the folks here buying Festool products.
Can't have it both ways...
JT
Can't have it both ways...
JT
AlexThePalex
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Julian Tracy said:
[huh]
No, no, it's not like that at all. [tongue]
Btw, do you have any idea how incredibly smug you just sounded there? [unsure]
Julian Tracy
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Well, like most of the folks here, I'm quite sure of my opinions of quality and the value of spending a bit more to get it, along with the benefits that come from buying better tools (and computers, in this case).
I'll admit to being a tool snob as well. If I have contractor's on a job using Ryobi or Craftsman tools, I do loose a bit of respect for them, or at least understand that they have no concept of quality tools; perhaps of quality work as well.
I have my limits as well though - not gonna spend $50 on a router bit or $400 for 38 driver and drill bits...
JT
I'll admit to being a tool snob as well. If I have contractor's on a job using Ryobi or Craftsman tools, I do loose a bit of respect for them, or at least understand that they have no concept of quality tools; perhaps of quality work as well.
I have my limits as well though - not gonna spend $50 on a router bit or $400 for 38 driver and drill bits...
JT
nickao
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Losing respect for a contractor because of the tools they use is not tool snobbery, its insanity.
It is the final product and quality of work that counts, not the tools they use. A Ryobi does the EXACT same thing a Festool does, the tools do not make the work better, the user does. Around here a lot of guys keep their good stuff home and have a completely different set for the jobs. The tools they use has absolutely no bearing on the quality work they do. Many here admit they have loads of Festools and are horrible woodworkers and do it as a hobby.
Its like the plumbers I used. The guy that came in with the fancy truck and all the current stuff and the clean and fancy tools did NOT pass the inspections. He laughed at the other sub that he called bucket plumbers. Well those bucket plumbers and their old rusty tools never failed an inspection and their work was always top of the line!
Not to mention some of these so called cheap tools outperform the Festools for less than 1/2 the money. I am not getting into it to much, but many here in the last day have said the new Ryobi drill is a fantastic tool! Compare the persons work, not their tools.
It is the final product and quality of work that counts, not the tools they use. A Ryobi does the EXACT same thing a Festool does, the tools do not make the work better, the user does. Around here a lot of guys keep their good stuff home and have a completely different set for the jobs. The tools they use has absolutely no bearing on the quality work they do. Many here admit they have loads of Festools and are horrible woodworkers and do it as a hobby.
Its like the plumbers I used. The guy that came in with the fancy truck and all the current stuff and the clean and fancy tools did NOT pass the inspections. He laughed at the other sub that he called bucket plumbers. Well those bucket plumbers and their old rusty tools never failed an inspection and their work was always top of the line!
Not to mention some of these so called cheap tools outperform the Festools for less than 1/2 the money. I am not getting into it to much, but many here in the last day have said the new Ryobi drill is a fantastic tool! Compare the persons work, not their tools.
jmbfestool
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Julian Tracy said:
Not gonna spend $50 on a router bit? Well da aint alot? Da is £32 You can easily spend that on a cutter! Thats CHEAP for some cutters. I have few ''cheap'' cutters which are £60 up the more expensive ones are £100 up all for my OF2200. £32 is for a decent cutter is low. My average cutter cost is properly £30-45 for good cutters
JMB
nickao
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Remember guys, we here in the states get a lot better pricing on tools. I guarantee some 25.00 USD cutters are as good or the same exact cutters you guys pay almost double for. I consider us lucky over here.
Yes, good cutters are worth it, unless you ever hardly use them then throw a ways are fine. I find the lower quality cutters just don't last as long, but the first 100- 150 feet are just fine.
Yes, good cutters are worth it, unless you ever hardly use them then throw a ways are fine. I find the lower quality cutters just don't last as long, but the first 100- 150 feet are just fine.
Brice Burrell
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Dovetail65 said:
Well of course, it goes without saying, you know, you can't judge a book by it's cover. But I assume Julian was speaking in generality and I agree with him, at least to some extent.
As to PCs being overly problematic in regards to viruses, that's not been my experience. I've never had a virus cause a problem that I needed to be concerned with.
AlexThePalex
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fdengel said:
Do what exactly? What do they know better? You're a bit vague.
AlexThePalex
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Julian Tracy said:
You sure are. :
Julian Tracy said:
A good tool does not a good contractor make. [wink]
Julian Tracy
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Maybe not, but the fact remains that in many instances, good tools deliver better results; cleaner cuts, less slop, less chipping...
I've got a friend that could care less, but he uses a lot more caulk than I do...
Having said all that, in some cases, it's not worth the premium, or the results will be the same, but just take longer. In other cases, such as as compressors and shop vacs, it's just rude to have the crappy stuff because of the increased noise they produce.
As for router bits, obviously I have a lot of $50-80 + bits, but I was referring to the basic 1/4", 1/2" shank edge cutters. No need to spend Festool's cost of $38-58 a bit, when very good bits are available for much less. The value proposition is much less. Same with driver bits and drill bits. Buy good ones, but no need to spend 300% more just cause they match your tools.
Those that dog macs usually have no actual experience with them. Resale value alone makes the increased cost worth it by many times.
Four year old Mac laptop worth $500, two year old pc laptop = $25... The lack of viruses does it for me. And for those pc users that haven't had any virus isssues, I'd bet you've spent some time and money paying for and updating the Mcafee, etc. scanning software.
Another hidden cost of those scans is hugely increased startup times. Most macs boot up in less than 30 seconds, some less.
Julian
I've got a friend that could care less, but he uses a lot more caulk than I do...
Having said all that, in some cases, it's not worth the premium, or the results will be the same, but just take longer. In other cases, such as as compressors and shop vacs, it's just rude to have the crappy stuff because of the increased noise they produce.
As for router bits, obviously I have a lot of $50-80 + bits, but I was referring to the basic 1/4", 1/2" shank edge cutters. No need to spend Festool's cost of $38-58 a bit, when very good bits are available for much less. The value proposition is much less. Same with driver bits and drill bits. Buy good ones, but no need to spend 300% more just cause they match your tools.
Those that dog macs usually have no actual experience with them. Resale value alone makes the increased cost worth it by many times.
Four year old Mac laptop worth $500, two year old pc laptop = $25... The lack of viruses does it for me. And for those pc users that haven't had any virus isssues, I'd bet you've spent some time and money paying for and updating the Mcafee, etc. scanning software.
Another hidden cost of those scans is hugely increased startup times. Most macs boot up in less than 30 seconds, some less.
Julian
Brice Burrell
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Julian Tracy said:
The current anti-virus software is very good and reasonably priced. There is software that is pretty darn good for free. The software I used was included for free for 24 months. It does its thing without my spending any time dealing with it. It will only bring a problem it can't deal with to my attention, but that hasn't happened yet and I doubt it will.
Julian Tracy said:
I never though of resale value because I've never thought of selling a computer. I've never looked but I'd be surprised that a two old PC laptop only being worth $25 unless it was pretty beat up, I'm sure a beat Mac would be worth considerably less too.
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I will unusually stay out of the Mac versus PC part of this, BUT, if you have a Mac, I would advise that you should be running antivirus software also. It is possible to get a virus. I know first hand. Remember, Macs are more popular now and it is a status symbol to write one. Many cable providers will provide you with a free version. It may be stripped down, but it sure is better than nothing. I now run a FULL virus scan nightly.
Happy conversations!
Peter
Happy conversations!
Peter
AlexThePalex
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I've been looking for a used laptop for my mother the last month and I only wished they came at 25% retail price. For a two year old laptop they certainly want at least 70% and 4-6 year olds go still for 50% minimum. No idea why you would want a 4 year old piece of hardware anyway, with the rate modern hardware develops, it's severely outdated already. You can also be sure that a 4 year old laptop comes with a dead battery so you can add a new one to the cost also, if you're lucky enough to find one.
As for virusses, their relevance is greatly exaggerated by some. Like me, most people never have a problem with them. I own and build my own pc's now for 15 years and I've only had two or three major problems with virusses in that time. Problems which were easily resolved in a day's time, by the way. I have my virus scanner and my firewall turned off all the time, because their restricting measures bother me a lot more than any virus does. And I'm one of those guys who downloads, installs and experiments with about any program or utility I can get my hands on. I just run my virus scanner manually once in a while and it hardly finds anything but tracking coockies.
Anyway, my view is, if you like one system or the other, Mac or PC, fine, but respect people with different opinions.
As for virusses, their relevance is greatly exaggerated by some. Like me, most people never have a problem with them. I own and build my own pc's now for 15 years and I've only had two or three major problems with virusses in that time. Problems which were easily resolved in a day's time, by the way. I have my virus scanner and my firewall turned off all the time, because their restricting measures bother me a lot more than any virus does. And I'm one of those guys who downloads, installs and experiments with about any program or utility I can get my hands on. I just run my virus scanner manually once in a while and it hardly finds anything but tracking coockies.
Anyway, my view is, if you like one system or the other, Mac or PC, fine, but respect people with different opinions.
mouppe
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This is one of those arguments that will never be settled. But my 2c is this.
My three-year old macbook laptop works as fast and as well as it did on day one, and I have no need to replace it for the foreseeable future.
Never had a virus or a problem in all that time, and I must have replaced my laptops every two years prior to buying a macbook.
So draw whatever conclusions you like, but in my experience, I'll can't see myself buying a pc again unless things radically change.
Oh, and my laptop battery still lasts for nearly three hours after being fully charged, which is amazing.
My three-year old macbook laptop works as fast and as well as it did on day one, and I have no need to replace it for the foreseeable future.
Never had a virus or a problem in all that time, and I must have replaced my laptops every two years prior to buying a macbook.
So draw whatever conclusions you like, but in my experience, I'll can't see myself buying a pc again unless things radically change.
Oh, and my laptop battery still lasts for nearly three hours after being fully charged, which is amazing.
