What abrasive schedule do you use for cabinetry?

[dawosura]

Hi gang,

I'm going to pick up a Rotex 150 soon, and wanted to ask what you all would recommend from the extensive Festool abrasive list. I'm a cabinetmaker, currently using a 4" belt sander w/ 80 grit belts for heavy-ish removal (not used all that often), and a 5" random orbit air powered w/ 80, 100, 120, 150, sometimes 180 & 220, and very rarely 320. These are all Klingspor abrasives.

The majority of my non-hand sanding is on veneer ply finished ends and plywood slab doors, raised panel doors, and hardwood-nosed ply tops/seats, and to a lesser degree face-frames, solid table tops, mantles, ...

I'm leaning towards finishing most everything with target coating water based CV, though I haven't done enough of it yet to really understand how fine a grit I need to go to. 

Does it make sense to combine "Rubin" & "Brilliant 2", or just use the latter, or ? I don't mind experimenting a bit (and thus spending a bit ), but would appreciate some advice and/or stories.

Best,
David

 

[Brice Burrell]

David, congrats on your first post! I think you'd do pretty well with all Brilliant 2. It works well on most common materials, wood, metal, plastics and so on. You might want to contact one of the Festool dealers here to look into buying smaller quantities of paper, I believe Bob and Tom both can work something out with you. Also, I believe Klingspor has paper to fit Festool sanders, another option.

Now, you may have your mind made up already, if so ignore the following. I think the ETS 150/5 may be a better sander for your needs. It's supper smooth running and very easy to handle. Not that the Rotex won't fit your needs it's just the ETS is real honey of a sander. I'd recommend you try both the Rotex and ETS150 at a dealer (assuming you haven't already). Good luck and let us know what you decide on.

 

[sw1211]

David,

Check out Jerry Work's site, under the Manuals section there is a comprehensive manual for Festool sanders and sandpaper and another one for Target coatings.

 

[dawosura]

Thanks for your responses, Jerry's site looks really helpful.

I'll definitely look more closely at the ETS 150/5.... although I admit I was intrigued by folks saying they replaced their belt sanders with the Rotex. How about the Lex air sander series? --- I guess they're not random orbit?

Regards,
David

 

[Greg_R]

I prefer Rubin for the lower grits and finish with Brilliant2.  The Rubin paper is faster and less prone to clogging on bare wood.  For paint or finish removal use Brilliant2.

Does your sander have the new pad (additional holes)?  If so, make sure you get the paper for that pad (there may be some overlap as dealers transition to the new stock).

 

[AlexThePalex]

How about the Lex air sander series? --- I guess they're not random orbit?

They are random orbit. Hence the name Lex: Luft & excentric. Luft is German for air.

 

[dawosura]

Alles klar, thanks for the helpful responses. I'm trying the ETS 150/5, Rubin up to 180. I have a feeling that I'll end up with more than one sander, but this will be good for the time being...

David

 

[AlexThePalex]

I have a feeling that I'll end up with more than one sander, ........

Hey, absolutely nothing wrong with that.  [wink]

 

[woodguy7]

If you decide to get more than 1 sander, then i would recomend the rotex 150 & the ets 150/3.  If you have the rotex for rougher stuff, the 150/3 will give you a lovely finnish.

Woodguy

 

[AlexThePalex]

If you decide to get more than 1 sander, then i would recomend the rotex 150 & the ets 150/3.  If you have the rotex for rougher stuff, the 150/3 will give you a lovely finnish.

I'm sorry but that doesn't seem like a really effective recommendation. These two have such a great overlap that you're more or less recommending the same sander twice.  The RO150 can do everything the ETS 150 can. If you want to be effective, get a triangular sander like the Dx93 or DTS400 next to a 150mm RO sander.

 

[Kevin Stricker]

There is a difference in the finish quality between the 150/3 and the Rotex, also the 150/3 is a more comfortable sander.  It makes perfect sense to me.

I do agree that a DX93 fills a gap, but that is my least used sander.  The Rotex and 150/3 get used almost daily.

 

[AlexThePalex]

There is a difference in the finish quality between the 150/3 and the Rotex, also the 150/3 is a more comfortable sander. 

I find that notion highly debatable. If you're skilled in sanding it is just as good possible to reach a perfect finish with the Rotex. The Rotex can do everything the ETS can plus more.

As for more comfortable, sure, the ETS 150 is probably more comfortable since it is smaller, lighter and less powerful than the Rotex. This makes it easier on your muscles. No denying that.

But I wasn't reacting to which one was better or more comfortable, but to the idea that if you want or have to get two different Festool sanders the worst combination you can possibly choose is the combination of two 150 mm sanders side by side. It is my opinion, which is not based in surrealism, that these two 150 mm sanders have a HUGE overlap in functionality. Considering the cost of Festool equipment, you are much better off, both cost-wise and functionality-wise, to buy 1 single 150 mm sander and combine it with another type of sander.

 

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Two or more sanders -- definitely yes over the long run if your business is cabinet making et al as described by David!  If only one sander, then I agree with Brice's recommendation of the ETS 150/5.  If only two (rotary type sanders to go from very rough to best possible finish) then I agree with Woodguy7 -- RO 150 and ETS 150/3.  And if David buys those and later wants something to get into corners and tight spaces, addition of the DTS 400 or Deltex 93 would well accomplish that goal. 

I speak as an owner of a RO 125, ETS 125, ETS 150/3, LS 130, and Deltex 93 whose work is mainly refinishing installed woodwork and building furniture.  The Deltex I use mainly for removal of old finishes on installed natural/stain finished mahogany and oak trim in a house (with ETS 125 and LS 130 also getting much use in these applications).  The ETS 150/3 has become my "Go To" sander for the bulk of my furniture making efforts due to its smoothness and ease of control.  And to my pleasant surprise, with 80 and 100 grit Rubin, it is quite effective in removing the irregularies in oak lumber surfaced with my damaged planer blades, so much so that I don't find it beneficial to start with my Rotex.

The LS 130 is a "sleeper" among Festool's sanders program.  I use it far more than I expected.  I find it very useful for carefully working solid wood edging added to factory veneered cabinet grade plywoods.  And it can also reach into right angle corners that a disk sander cannot.  And I find it useful for a final directional sanding before applying stains to help ensure there aren't any swirl pattern scratches that show up in the stain.  And in knocking down finish coats between application of additional layers of finish.

I also have several non Festool sanders, and with the exception of my Bosch 4" x 24" belt sander, they don't see any use since I switched to Festool.  I use the belt sander when I need to remove old catalyzed varnish from large areas, e.g. refinishing old cabinet doors.

Dave R.

 

[tbellemare]

There is a difference in the finish quality between the 150/3 and the Rotex

I completely agree with this statement. The Rotex can achieve a better finish, it can polish as well as sand...

Tom

 

[dawosura]

Well, the 150/5 has arrived, and as far as I can tell it's going to be a very good friend. Thorough testing tomorrow.

I don't mean for the topic to wander, but as we've already moved into discussions of other sanders .... one reason I was & am interested in the Rotex is that it seems it could be used (among all of its other capabilities) for scribing tops and cabinets to walls --- a function now fulfilled by a belt sander. The belt sander works pretty damned well for the job, actually, but anyone use a Rotex for that kind of operation?

 

[tbellemare]

The orbital motion of the Rotex would make that more challenging than using the RAS 115 for scribing. The RAS is the perfect tool for that purpose. It also collects the dust very well while scribing because you can orient the dust brush where the dust wants to go when you are on an edge like that.

Tom